Sabbath

[Kidron]

Matthew 16:18-19

18 I tell you that you are Peter, and it is on this rock that I will build my congregation,

You are a Catholic ??? and if so.....then for you the "church father's" are more important the Christ, The Apostles, or anything else., except for mary.

Listen,....... Peter is not the Rock that upon which the body of Christ is Built.
Its the revelation that Peter had , that Jesus is the Christ, that is the revelation that the CHURCH is Built upon.

Peter died for no ones sins, so, how could he be the foundation of the body of Christ?
??????

Yet, for 1500 yrs, the "dark ages" cult of mary has tried to replace Jesus with their self proclaimed "1st Pope"
Don't believe their Lie.

 

[MalikB]

Smh

Justification is the process of being saved. The term means to be declaired righteous or innocent of wrongdoing, IE, Saved from the penalty of sin.

You have james contradicting paul.

Funny how you ignored Romans and all I posted.

PS. You do boast. You declair you are saving yourself. Paul calls you a fool. Maybe thats why you hate him so much?

If your justified by works, Your saved by works.

You didn't address the verses in James because you know they are clear..... and your pride/ need to be right outweighs the truth in you.

I never ignored Romans, I actually posted that passage before you did. Plus, there is nothing to say about it. Again, "IF" Paul is saying that Abraham was justified without works, than that contradicts James 2:21-22.

Even after knowing the definition of boast, you continue to falsely accuse me of it. After I made it clear that we require grace (the free gift from God) to be saved, you lie and say that "I declair (declare) I'm saving myself".... These things are called "bearing false witness".... but what do you care... you believe that the law no longer applies.


Mathew 24:11-12

11 Many false prophets will appear and deceive many people, 12 and because lawlessness will increase, the love of many people will grow cold.

 

[MalikB]

You are a Catholic ??? and if so.....then for you the "church father's" are more important the Christ, The Apostles, or anything else., except for mary.

Listen,....... Peter is not the Rock that upon which the body of Christ is Built.
Its the revelation that Peter had , that Jesus is the Christ, that is the revelation that the CHURCH is Built upon.

Peter died for no ones sins, so, how could he be the foundation of the body of Christ?
??????

Yet, for 1500 yrs, the "dark ages" cult of mary has tried to replace Jesus with their self proclaimed "1st Pope"
Don't believe their Lie.

I don't belong to any religious organization. I believe in studying the scriptures... taking context, culture, language, etc. all into consideration, and ultimately trying to uncover Truth (regardless of whether or not I like what that truth is). Sure, I will end up with some things I agree with and disagree with that different religions teach... but I don't use any religion for the source of truth.

 

[MalikB]

As I've been telling you. Keeping sabbath isn't about refusing to help others or do work for them. It's about setting yourself aside and taking up the yoke of Christ.

So if someone asks me to work for them on sabbath, I will do it, as though it is a service to God.

You said you wouldn't even answer emails on a Saturday if your boss needed you to. That does not at all seem to be the message of Christ.

That may not seem like the message to you... but no, I don't consider answering emails "God's work". The examples we have been given are... feeding hungry people, healing and pulling an ox out of a ditch. We also have have an example of that which is holy (set apart by God) being mixed with mans work (E.G. making money) with the money changers being thrown out of the temple by the Messiah.

 

[Kidron]

James 2:21-22.

Abraham is the "father of our Faith", and Abraham's work, came after he Believed.
He was not going to offer Issac before he believed, but after, and so, God had already accepted His FAITH< as "faith is counted as righteousness" "without works".

Its like this reader. If God accepted your works to save you, then that means God is saving you based on you.
He does not.
He saved you based on His mercy and His "Gift of Righteous", and God's mercy is Christ on the Cross.


See, we recognize a Christian by WORKS..........and that is what James is talking about.

He says that faith without works is "dead".......yet, the heretic, the Cross rejector, changes this into their Cult's doctrine, like this..
"Dead faith, means dead salvation". or "dead faith means you've lost your salvation".
That is what a HERETIC teaches.........but James simply says faith is dead, not salvaiton.
AFter all, how can being born again be dead?

See, once you are born again, you are always born again, and notice you were born again without doing any works, as Salvation is a GIFT.

So, dead faith, means the person is not invested in their Christian discipleship.....they are backslid or living in the flesh.

See,...... here is the thing about Faith.
The instant you give it to God as Faith in Christ, you are eternally born again, that instant.
This never changes.
Once you are born again, you are always born again., as you cant stop a BIRTH, Reader., and a Spiritual Birth is GOD caused, and you can never end what God has caused to EXIST. -= YOU and the "new Creation" "in Christ". "born again".

Now, go out, as James teaches, and live the life of a true believer, ......add this to your faith., verses having dead faith, and sitting there in front of the TV day and night, as a do nothing, totally caught up in what the world provides you as entertainment.

 

[Kidron]

I don't belong to any religious organization.

Only the Catholic "cult of Mary" teaches that Peter is the Rock that God used as the foundation of the Church.
So, you are that self defined theology, same as they are,,,,,,,,,even tho you deny it.
That's your reality, based on what you TEACH., and what you TEACH is what you BELIEVE.
Thats a FACT.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You didn't address the verses in James because you know they are clear..... and your pride/ need to be right outweighs the truth in you.

I never ignored Romans, I actually posted that passage before you did. Plus, there is nothing to say about it. Again, "IF" Paul is saying that Abraham was justified without works, than that contradicts James 2:21-22.

Even after knowing the definition of boast, you continue to falsely accuse me of it. After I made it clear that we require grace (the free gift from God) to be saved, you lie and say that "I declair (declare) I'm saving myself".... These things are called "bearing false witness".... but what do you care... you believe that the law no longer applies.


Mathew 24:11-12

11 Many false prophets will appear and deceive many people, 12 and because lawlessness will increase, the love of many people will grow cold.

Dude I addressed the verses in James more than once.
Again James did nit contradict Paul. As I told you the first time you posted that passage James audience is hearers of the word not doers licentious people who think they can say a prayer and magically they are saved. They believe only no faith (dead). They have a claimed faith only. James is yelling them to justify their faith by their works (which they have non). And uses Abraham as an example. Abraham justified his faith was real to himself and mankind by his works
you sir better stop hating Paul. Paul is talking to you. You did not respond to anything I said about romans 4. Because you know it is directed to you that’s why you hate Paul. I would to if I was you because Paul would claim I was a fool. And that would make me mad.

 

[MalikB]

Only the Catholic "cult of Mary" teaches that Peter is the Rock that God used as the foundation of the Church.
So, you are that self defined theology, same as they are,,,,,,,,,even tho you deny it.
That's your reality, based on what you TEACH., and what you TEACH is what you BELIEVE.
Thats a FACT.

The problem is you are thinking within boxes. All I did was post what the scripture says. I could care less what this "cult of Mary" you mention teaches. Many religions overlap in multiple areas... and some of my beliefs will overlap with multiple groups. Me having some beliefs in common with a religion does not mean I subscribe to what it teaches overall. I have many things I agree with in modern Christianity... but that doesn't mean I agree with every prepackaged ideology that comes with it.

 

[MalikB]

Dude I addressed the verses in James more than once.
Again James did nit contradict Paul. As I told you the first time you posted that passage James audience is hearers of the word not doers licentious people who think they can say a prayer and magically they are saved. They believe only no faith (dead). They have a claimed faith only. James is yelling them to justify their faith by their works (which they have non). And uses Abraham as an example. Abraham justified his faith was real to himself and mankind by his works
you sir better stop hating Paul. Paul is talking to you. You did not respond to anything I said about romans 4. Because you know it is directed to you that’s why you hate Paul. I would to if I was you because Paul would claim I was a fool. And that would make me mad.

This is now the third time I'm saying this... There is nothing for me to respond to in Romans 4. I do not disagree with your interpretation of Romans 4. What are you expecting me to say about something I don't disagree with??


You said: "James is yelling them to justify their faith by their works (which they have non)."

If ONLY faith is required and NOT works, why do they need to justify their faith?


If Abram said to The Father.. "I believe in you" and the Father knew this to be the case, but Abraham also said "I'm not going to follow your instructions".... would he still be justified??

 

[MalikB]

Abraham is the "father of our Faith", and Abraham's work, came after he Believed.
He was not going to offer Issac before he believed, but after, and so, God had already accepted His FAITH< as "faith is counted as righteousness" "without works".

Its like this reader. If God accepted your works to save you, then that means God is saving you based on you.
He does not.
He saved you based on His mercy and His "Gift of Righteous", and God's mercy is Christ on the Cross.


See, we recognize a Christian by WORKS..........and that is what James is talking about.

He says that faith without works is "dead".......yet, the heretic, the Cross rejector, changes this into their Cult's doctrine, like this..
"Dead faith, means dead salvation". or "dead faith means you've lost your salvation".
That is what a HERETIC teaches.........but James simply says faith is dead, not salvaiton.
AFter all, how can being born again be dead?

See, once you are born again, you are always born again, and notice you were born again without doing any works, as Salvation is a GIFT.

So, dead faith, means the person is not invested in their Christian discipleship.....they are backslid or living in the flesh.

See,...... here is the thing about Faith.
The instant you give it to God as Faith in Christ, you are eternally born again, that instant.
This never changes.
Once you are born again, you are always born again., as you cant stop a BIRTH, Reader., and a Spiritual Birth is GOD caused, and you can never end what God has caused to EXIST. -= YOU and the "new Creation" "in Christ". "born again".

Now, go out, as James teaches, and live the life of a true believer, ......add this to your faith., verses having dead faith, and sitting there in front of the TV day and night, as a do nothing, totally caught up in what the world provides you as entertainment.

Faith happens before your works... I agree with that. You have to believe/trust before the actions take place. I also believe the Father knows our hearts and our intentions (I'm pretty sure we agree on that too). Where I think we may differ, is that I believe that if we have the opportunity to do the work, and don't do it, then we never really had the faith in the first place.

Example: Let's say I come to the belief today that the Father wants us to keep the Sabbath. To my understanding, tomorrow is the Sabbath, and starting tomorrow I will be trying to keep it the best way I understand it. Unfortunately, I get in a car accident and die tonight. That death prevented me from carrying out the works that I would have done.

Similarly, Abraham was stopped before going through with sacrificing Isaac. So for that specific instruction from God, the action never took place. The Father still knew what Abraham was going to based off of knowing his heart, and in this case, his actions leading up to the sacrifice.

My point is... people use faith (belief/trust) to mean that you can have it absent of works/law. My belief is that actions prove your faith, and if you have the opportunity to do the actions and don't, then your faith may not be as strong as you think.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is now the third time I'm saying this... There is nothing for me to respond to in Romans 4. I do not disagree with your interpretation of Romans 4. What are you expecting me to say about something I don't disagree with??


You said: "James is yelling them to justify their faith by their works (which they have non)."

If ONLY faith is required and NOT works, why do they need to justify their faith?


If Abram said to The Father.. "I believe in you" and the Father knew this to be the case, but Abraham also said "I'm not going to follow your instructions".... would he still be justified??

You missed the whole point
we are saved by grace through faith

Living faith works. It does not do nothing Paul made this clear in eph 2. But t you nspite if this we are still SAVED. jUSTIFIED, REDEEMED. BORN AGAIN. However you want to say it, by grace through faith not works!

James is not saying Paul is wrong he is stating a fact. If you claim you have faith yet do not have the works Paul said you will have. Then can your faith save you? No. Because it is no faith at all. A dead faith is not faith that’s why it can’t save
in romans 4 people spoke to people adding works to grace and faith. He is speaking to you my friend
James is speaking to people who I have yet to meet in this chat room. This he is irreverent in this chat room because we do not have heaters only we have doers

 

[MalikB]

You said: "However you want to say it"

This is why your understanding is so flawed. Words mean things... Faith, grace, righteousness.... sin, law, ordinance, decree. You use words interchangeably that have totally different meanings.


You said: "If you claim you have faith yet do not have the works Paul said you will have."

This is not a complete sentence, so I'm not sure what you mean by this. You will have what?


You said: "Then can your faith save you? No. Because it is no faith at all."

What is not faith at all? When there is no works that represent that faith?

 

[Jackson123]

I believe that Jesus is my Sabbath rest, and references to the Sabbath before
His incarnation as Christ were pointing to the rest we are to find in Him

Agree we can go to church on Saturday but our mind not in rest
Only with Jesus we experience real rest
Say we in camp concentration where government force us to work every day in Jesus we still have rest
Paul not depress in prison he sang my friend look like free man but have to take anti depression pill

 

[Icedaisey]

A single word that can coax the worst personalities to go public.

If you want to honor the Sabbath God made for us, you, do so. Typically this was from sundown on Friday unto sundown on Saturday.

If you don't, that's cool too. Just don't trash mouth those who do honor Sabbath when it was God's gift to his faithful, who are now all one in Christ. Meaning, Anti-Semitic personality disorder can't rail and say, "Sabbath is only for the Jews!" Because guess what? Jesus was the JEWS MESSIAH!
Now what?

Sunday church service has a history of its own. Man made and Roman polytheist pagan at that. But if you want to go to church on the Sun's day, go for it. After all, the days of the week in our calendar are named for pagan god's and goddesses. What a hoot.

It's a relationship!
Not a dictate.

 

[Jackson123]

A single word that can coax the worst personalities to go public.

If you want to honor the Sabbath God made for us, you, do so. Typically this was from sundown on Friday unto sundown on Saturday.

If you don't, that's cool too. Just don't trash mouth those who do honor Sabbath when it was God's gift to his faithful, who are now all one in Christ. Meaning, Anti-Semitic personality disorder can't rail and say, "Sabbath is only for the Jews!" Because guess what? Jesus was the JEWS MESSIAH!
Now what?

Sunday church service has a history of its own. Man made and Roman polytheist pagan at that. But if you want to go to church on the Sun's day, go for it. After all, the days of the week in our calendar are named for pagan god's and goddesses. What a hoot.

It's a relationship!
Not a dictate.

And if you want to worship God every day that is great
Worship is on spirit and truth

 

[Icedaisey]

And if you want to worship God every day that is great
Worship is on spirit and truth

Yes. God knew that. That's why he made one day of rest for us. Not for him.

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

 

[MalikB]

This he is irreverent in this chat room because we do not have heaters only we have doers

Doers of what? If it is not doers of what The Father says to do (his law) than what do we really have faith in? Faith in man? Faith in the church? Faith in your religion?

 

[Duckybill]

This verse is commonly taken out of context to support lawlessness, when it is actually saying the opposite of how its represented. These people being written to were Greek converts that were trying to keep the laws of the Father and being judged for it. Paul was saying not to let anyone judge you for KEEPING these laws.

I think He was telling me to not let anyone judge me since we have no NT Sabbath commands. Sabbath commands were ONLY for Israel. Nobody else. I don't know of anyone who obeys the Sabbath COMMANDS.

 

[MalikB]

I think He was telling me to not let anyone judge me since we have no NT Sabbath commands. Sabbath commands were ONLY for Israel. Nobody else. I don't know of anyone who obeys the Sabbath COMMANDS.

The Commandments/laws (Including the Sabbath) were not only for Israel...


Leviticus 24:22

Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.


Exodus 12:49

A single law exists for the native and the alien who resides among you.


Exodus 20:8-10

“Remember the Sabbath day, maintaining its holiness. 9 Six days you are to labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. You are not to do any work—neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your livestock, nor any foreigner who lives among you.



Romans 2:6-11


6 For he will repay everyone according to what that person has done: 7 eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing good; 8 but wrath and fury for those who in their selfish pride refuse to believe the truth and practice wickedness instead. 9 There will be suffering and anguish for every human being who practices doing evil, for Jews first and for Greeks as well. 10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who practices doing good, initially for Jews but also for Greeks as well, 11 because God does not show partiality.

 

[gb9]

I don't belong to any religious organization. I believe in studying the scriptures... taking context, culture, language, etc. all into consideration, and ultimately trying to uncover Truth (regardless of whether or not I like what that truth is). Sure, I will end up with some things I agree with and disagree with that different religions teach... but I don't use any religion for the source of truth.

you should join the Hebrew roots movement.

they push Sabbath keeping for salvation just like you do.