Sabbath

[MalikB]

No one who has died is under the jurisdiction of the law any longer.

Not one jot or tittle has to pass away for a dead man to be free from any requirement of the law.

That is what you call adding to fit your narrative. And definitely does not make sense in conjunction with Mat 5:19 where it states that what we do and teach regarding law effects your place in heaven.... And I guess its just a coincidence that "heaven and earth disappears" in Revelation 21:1.

Bottom line is people love their sin more than they love truth.


Mathew 24:11-12

11 Many false prophets will appear and deceive many people, 12 and because lawlessness will increase, the love of many people will grow cold.


Revelation 22:14

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[TMS]

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Point one...... Prove to me that the seventh day was not made Holy, was not set aside, was not blessed by God at creation.

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Point two...... People keep saying the sabbath is only for the Jews. Where does the Bible say it is only for the Jews? The Sabbath was made for man, all mankind according to verse 27 above.
If the Sabbath was made at creation before Jew or gentile and was made for man why do so many say it is only for the Jews?

 

[posthuman]

That is what you call adding to fit your narrative.

not in the least.
it is this, which is our salvation:

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
(Romans 7:1-6) ​

​

why is it you don't recognize the gospel when you hear it?

 

[posthuman]

Blessed are they that do his commandments

​

If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.​

(Matthew 5:40-42)​

​

sabbath is not an excuse to ignore these commandments.

 

[posthuman]

in conjunction with Mat 5:19

the jots & tittles say Levi and no other may be priest,
therefore Christ, who is of Judah, cannot be your priest, if you are under the commandments of the letters.

or do you disregard all the law you consider 'least' ?

 

[MalikB]

​

If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.​

(Matthew 5:40-42)​

​

sabbath is not an excuse to ignore these commandments.

This is in the same chapter as 5:18-19.... So this is obviously within the context of keeping law. Is lacks all logic to pull this out of context to support lawlessness.

 

[MalikB]

the jots & tittles say Levi and no other may be priest,
therefore Christ, who is of Judah, cannot be your priest, if you are under the commandments of the letters.

or do you disregard all the law you consider 'least' ?

Who was being spoken to... All law isn't for all people at all times. Most of the bible is DESCRIBED not PRESCRIBED. Like many you fail in your understanding because you think because it sounds good, it is meant for us to take random scriptures out and apply them to our lives. Only some laws were for all people forever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm sorry that you feel that following Gods instructions is equal to boasting to him.

...and good way to avoid the question.

You stated your saved by following gods instructions. And that is what you do. Hence you boast in your works

I boast if God. Who works in me to make me like him. Because he saved me and made me his

Huge difference there. I pray you see the difference soon

 

[MalikB]

not in the least.
it is this, which is our salvation:

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. ​

(Romans 7:1-6) ​

​

why is it you don't recognize the gospel when you hear it?

Why do you think that it is impossible that the interpretation that you learned of these scriptures can't be incorrect?


Romans 7:1-6


7 Don’t you realize, brothers—for I am speaking to people who know the Law—that the Law can press its claims over a person only as long as he is alive? 2 For a married woman is bound by the Law to her husband while he is living, but if her husband dies, she is released from the Law concerning her husband. 3 So while her husband is living, she will be called an adulterer if she lives with another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from this Law, so that she is not an adulterer if she marries another man.
4 In the same way, my brothers, through the Messiah’s body you also died as far as the Law is concerned, so that you may belong to another person, the one who was raised from the dead, and may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living according to our human nature, sinful passions were at work in our bodies by means of the Law, to bear fruit resulting in death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law by dying to what enslaved us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit, not under the old writings.


This is why its important to have a good understanding of first covenant scriptures before diving into Paul's writings. He says at the very beginning of the passage you posted that he is speaking to people that KNOW THE LAW. In the metaphor that was given regarding death of a woman's husband, verse 2 specifically says that she is released from the law CONCERNING HER HUSBAND.... not all of God's law. "In the same way".... we are released from the law concerning THE MESSIAH'S BODY.... not all of God's law.

The question then is, what was the Messiah's body? It was the sacrificial lamb... The payment for us breaking the law (our sin). That is what this passage is saying we are dead to, and not under the old writings of. We no longer have to pay the earthly penalties for breaking the law (E.G. animal sacrifice) because that debt was paid with the Messiah's body.


In verse 6 it says "by dying to what enslaved us". The law as a whole does not enslave us.... we are slaves to breaking the law (sin):


John 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, that everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.


Paul as well...

Romans 6:16-18

16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thank God that, though you were once slaves of sin, you became obedient from your hearts to that form of teaching with which you were entrusted! 18 And since you have been freed from sin, you have become slaves of righteousness.



James 1:25

25 But the one who looks at the perfect law of freedom and remains committed to it—thereby demonstrating that he is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of what that law requires—will be blessed in what he does.


It's always been sin (breaking the law) that enslaved us... not the law itself. Romans 7:1-6 was saying that our earthly penalties have been paid through the body of the Messiah, so we are free from that curse that sinning (breaking law) brought us. By no means is this saying that the Father's law died with the Messiah and is now obsolete.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Then you need to go to Exodus 16, that's the first time sabbath is mentioned in scripture.

Maybe as a day but not as a concept. That was in Genesis 2 already

 

[MalikB]

You stated your saved by following gods instructions. And that is what you do. Hence you boast in your works

I boast if God. Who works in me to make me like him. Because he saved me and made me his

Huge difference there. I pray you see the difference soon

Please find the quote where I said that.... Even if I did (which is not true), that is not the definition of boasting.

Are you going to continue to avoid my question? You complained that I was avoiding some verses you posted, when I simply missed the post... and now I addressed them. So can you answer my question...

Did Abrahams works effect his righteousness (play a role in being justified)?

 

[Kidron]

I'm going to have to disagree with a lot of what you said here because it is not rooted in scripture.

Paul wrote most of the New Testament.
So, apparently you dont own one, and if you do, you have not read it much, or you would realize that Paul's epistle make up most of the NT.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please find the quote where I said that....

I said FAITH plus works, not GRACE plus works....

Even if I did (which is not true), that is not the definition of boasting.

you boast when you take credit for doing something. You claim you are saved by faith PLUS WORKS, hence you BOAST in the fact you take credit for earning your salvation.

Are you going to continue to avoid my question? You complained that I was avoiding some verses you posted, when I simply missed the post... and now I addressed them. So can you answer my question...

Did Abrahams works effect his righteousness (play a role in being justified)?

I have answered you so many times in all my posts a;l i can figure is you are not listening to a thing I say. I have insisted we are saved by grace through faith NO WORK. So why would you even question if I though t abraham was saved by grace through faith plus works?

Once again, No Abrahams work had no part of his justification. Paul made that clear. If you would read romans 4 and all of pauls letters you would see that

this is what paul said

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?

Was abraham found by works? By the flesh? By his own work?

2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

IF Abraham was found by works, he h=can take credit (boast) for saving himself)

3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.”

Found in Genesis. Before abraham did works.

4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.

How much clearer can it be, If your going to try to earn by faith plus works. Your reward is not counted as grace, but as debt, Now can you explain why this is? The law shows you. Can you understand it?

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Just like Jesus said in john 3: 16, Whoever believed shall never perish but live forever. As he continued, whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already. We are saved through faith. If you sit and trust God to save you. To you are declaired righteous through faith.

No work involved, only the work of Christ on the cross

6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lordshall not impute sin.”

Yes, even in the OT under the law. They were saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH. NOT OF WORKS.

David, a man after Gods own heart. Boasted in God and his salvation. Not in his work. Because he understood, Hos works were as filthy rags.

The justification James spoke of what not earning his salvation by works. It was justifying tp himself and men, that his faith was real.

God does not need proof. GOD KNOWS!

How can you claim to know God yet sit there and say God needs proof before he will save a person.

 

[MalikB]

you boast when you take credit for doing something. You claim you are saved by faith PLUS WORKS, hence you BOAST in the fact you take credit for earning your salvation.




I have answered you so many times in all my posts a;l i can figure is you are not listening to a thing I say. I have insisted we are saved by grace through faith NO WORK. So why would you even question if I though t abraham was saved by grace through faith plus works?

Once again, No Abrahams work had no part of his justification. Paul made that clear. If you would read romans 4 and all of pauls letters you would see that

this is what paul said

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?

Was abraham found by works? By the flesh? By his own work?

2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

IF Abraham was found by works, he h=can take credit (boast) for saving himself)

3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.”

Found in Genesis. Before abraham did works.

4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.

How much clearer can it be, If your going to try to earn by faith plus works. Your reward is not counted as grace, but as debt, Now can you explain why this is? The law shows you. Can you understand it?

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Just like Jesus said in john 3: 16, Whoever believed shall never perish but live forever. As he continued, whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already. We are saved through faith. If you sit and trust God to save you. To you are declaired righteous through faith.

No work involved, only the work of Christ on the cross

6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lordshall not impute sin.”

Yes, even in the OT under the law. They were saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH. NOT OF WORKS.

David, a man after Gods own heart. Boasted in God and his salvation. Not in his work. Because he understood, Hos works were as filthy rags.

The justification James spoke of what not earning his salvation by works. It was justifying tp himself and men, that his faith was real.

God does not need proof. GOD KNOWS!

How can you claim to know God yet sit there and say God needs proof before he will save a person.

1. You said: "you boast when you take credit for doing something"

You clearly don't know the definition of boasting. To boast is to have excessive pride in yourself... to praise oneself... brag about your accomplishments...etc. I have done none of the sort. Your false accusations about me are unnecessary.


2. You said: "You claim you are saved by faith PLUS WORKS"

I did not say you are SAVED by faith plus works... I said you are JUSTIFIED by faith plus works. You are constantly mixing up words... faith and grace are not the same thing, saved and justified are not the same thing. What I said was....

"Grace is a gift/pardon. We are going to fall short and need grace no matter what our level of faith or amount of works is.... However, our works and faith work in tandem with each other to show where our heart is."

We become justified (gain God's acceptance) through a combination of faith and works..... HOWEVER, no matter how hard we try we will still fall short and don't deserve that acceptance. THEREFORE, we also require grace (a free gift and a pardon) in order for us to be saved.


I don't know why it's so difficult to get an answer to a simple yes or no question from you. I had already posted Romans 4:1-6 and there was never a disagreement on what that specific passage was saying.

I just wanted to be clear that YOU believe that one thing that Paul is saying in that passage is that Abrahams works did not effect his righteousness (play a role in being justified).

If you believe that is something that Paul was saying (I'm not saying he wasn't).... that is a direct contradiction to James. This is why James wrote to refute those claims:


James 2: 21-22

21 Our ancestor Abraham was justified by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar, wasn’t he? 22 You see that his faith worked together with what he did, and by his actions his faith was made complete.


Again, Abraham still required grace to be saved..... but James is clear that to be justified, Abrahams actions and faith were both needed.

 

[MalikB]

Paul wrote most of the New Testament.
So, apparently you dont own one, and if you do, you have not read it much, or you would realize that Paul's epistle make up most of the NT.

You completely missed what I said. I am not disagreeing that Paul has more writings in the new testament than other authors. What I said was the AMOUNT of writings from one author... should not carry more weight than the amount of authors. The amount of corroborating witnesses matters more than how much one witness says.

 

[Kidron]

. What I said was the AMOUNT of writings from one author.

That is your opinion.
Your opinion defies the NT.

Listen......all church doctrine came from Paul.
The Gospel that we are to preach in the time of the gentiles came from Paul. = he calls it "MY Gospel".
Paul said to be a follower of HIM< as he followed Christ, and no other apostle said this...

In the time of the Gentiles, the apostle Paul is the ONLY GENTILE APOSTILE.

So, you are the one that can't understand all this that is so obvious to anyone who is sincerely a student of the NT.
If and when you ever become one of those, then get into all of Paul's epistles as that is the KEY to it all.
Without this key, you stay in the dark.

Start here. Hebrews 13:9

Then here...... Romans 3 : 21-28

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1. You said: "you boast when you take credit for doing something"

You clearly don't know the definition of boasting. To boast is to have excessive pride in yourself... to praise oneself... brag about your accomplishments...etc. I have done none of the sort. Your false accusations about me are unnecessary.


2. You said: "You claim you are saved by faith PLUS WORKS"

I did not say you are SAVED by faith plus works... I said you are JUSTIFIED by faith plus works. You are constantly mixing up words... faith and grace are not the same thing, saved and justified are not the same thing. What I said was....

"Grace is a gift/pardon. We are going to fall short and need grace no matter what our level of faith or amount of works is.... However, our works and faith work in tandem with each other to show where our heart is."

We become justified (gain God's acceptance) through a combination of faith and works..... HOWEVER, no matter how hard we try we will still fall short and don't deserve that acceptance. THEREFORE, we also require grace (a free gift and a pardon) in order for us to be saved.


I don't know why it's so difficult to get an answer to a simple yes or no question from you. I had already posted Romans 4:1-6 and there was never a disagreement on what that specific passage was saying.

I just wanted to be clear that YOU believe that one thing that Paul is saying in that passage is that Abrahams works did not effect his righteousness (play a role in being justified).

If you believe that is something that Paul was saying (I'm not saying he wasn't).... that is a direct contradiction to James. This is why James wrote to refute those claims:


James 2: 21-22

21 Our ancestor Abraham was justified by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar, wasn’t he? 22 You see that his faith worked together with what he did, and by his actions his faith was made complete.


Again, Abraham still required grace to be saved..... but James is clear that to be justified, Abrahams actions and faith were both needed.

Smh

Justification is the process of being saved. The term means to be declaired righteous or innocent of wrongdoing, IE, Saved from the penalty of sin.

You have james contradicting paul.

Funny how you ignored Romans and all I posted.

PS. You do boast. You declair you are saving yourself. Paul calls you a fool. Maybe thats why you hate him so much?

If your justified by works, Your saved by works.

 

[posthuman]

This is in the same chapter as 5:18-19.... So this is obviously within the context of keeping law. Is lacks all logic to pull this out of context to support lawlessness.

As I've been telling you. Keeping sabbath isn't about refusing to help others or do work for them. It's about setting yourself aside and taking up the yoke of Christ.

So if someone asks me to work for them on sabbath, I will do it, as though it is a service to God.

You said you wouldn't even answer emails on a Saturday if your boss needed you to. That does not at all seem to be the message of Christ.

 

[posthuman]

Only some laws were for all people forever.

So you claim 'not one jot or tittle' and then in your next breath, delete all kinds of jots and tittles.

Typical hypocrisy

 

[MalikB]

That is your opinion.
Your opinion defies the NT.

Listen......all church doctrine came from Paul.
The Gospel that we are to preach in the time of the gentiles came from Paul. = he calls it "MY Gospel".
Paul said to be a follower of HIM< as he followed Christ, and no other apostle said this...

In the time of the Gentiles, the apostle Paul is the ONLY GENTILE APOSTILE.

So, you are the one that can't understand all this that is so obvious to anyone who is sincerely a student of the NT.
If and when you ever become one of those, then get into all of Paul's epistles as that is the KEY to it all.
Without this key, you stay in the dark.

Start here. Hebrews 13:9

Then here...... Romans 3 : 21-28

You said "Listen......all church doctrine came from Paul."

No, just modern Christianity. Regardless, what man or the church is doing carries no significance to me.



Matthew 16:18-19

18 I tell you that you are Peter, and it is on this rock that I will build my congregation, and the powers of hell will not conquer it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom from heaven. Whatever you prohibit on earth will have been prohibited in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will have been permitted in heaven.”



Acts 15:7

7 After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and told them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days, God chose me to be the one among you through whom the gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe.