Sabbath

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Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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I believe God's name as YHWH does not occur in the New Testament.
Pick, Pick, Pick.

I believe it has been found in a single manucript, and I believe there are Hebrew versions of Mat, John and Revelation, and I believe theos does not occur in the "Old Testament" yet the ancient translators translated YHWH in "theos" in the Septuagint.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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What Law is not of Faith?
the one Galatians 3 is talking about.

it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”
The Law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The one who does these things will live by them.”
(Galatians 3:11-12)

the apostle is quoting YHVH spoken through Moses in the Law itself:

You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.
(Leviticus 18:4-5)

same as in Romans 10:5.
same as Jesus Christ says to the man under the Law who didn't understand what he'd done wrong by calling the Lord '
good teacher' :

if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(Matthew 19:17)
Christ then lists several of the 10 commandments given on the tablets, before Israel asked for Moses to be a mediator. He excludes the sabbath ((pay attention to verse 21 tho)) and all feasts. He excludes 'have no other gods before Me' -- which He had just told the man already when He asked him why he called Him 'good' and declared that no one is good but God alone. He adds "love thy neighbor as thyself" -- this is not one of the 10 commandments. He does not mention anything about atonement.

Christ therefore tells this man the same thing He told all of Israel through Moses: if you do the works of the Law you will have life. Christ calls the 10 commandments part of the Law. He also calls Leviticus 19 part of the Law. we all know the feasts and the sacrifices and the festivals and the rules for cleanliness and uncleanness are part of the Law. one Law.

this is "the Law" written of in Galatians. and in Romans.
this Law, same chapter:


if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the Law.
(Galatians 3:21)
which cannot impart righteousness.
which is not of faith: because it says "
do" --

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
(Galatians 3:10)

that Law. Deuteronomy 21.

hope you have a nice time trying to twist Galatians into only talking about the sacrificial system :)
a good sword resists torsion extremely well.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
if a person can allow themselves to let go of the King James long enough to read a modern, readable English translation, It all becomes so simple
That has nothing to do with it

What the law says, it says to those who are ruled by the law. Its purpose is to shut every mouth and make the whole world accountable to God. 20 So no one will be considered right with God by obeying the law. Instead, the law makes us more aware of our sin.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+3&version=NIRV

and no that's not a new age translation.
Yes it is.
Spend Years Learning Greek, take the original Greek of Romans and put it into modern everyday English, and that's what it says!
No it doesn't.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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When one consider the word play there it gets really interesting.
Its really not that complicated. A person really has to twist scripture to continue to work at the law and call themselves Christian.
Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut. 30:12-14. The Roman Church was a mixture of Jew and Gentile. The would have been utilizing the Torah because that is the Holy Scripture they had. Paul knew this and knew that when he paraphrased Deuteronomy they would be moved to look it up.

We through Christ went from having to obey that which was written with ink and on tables of stone to being that which was written and intended. As a matter of fact is was always suppose to be about being. This is the Faith of GOD and HIS Christ. This is what GOD has been offering and the stone to which they stumble on.

For Christ (the word in your heart and mouth; the faith in which we speak) is the end of the law (that which was written with ink and on tables of stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law , That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Law; the word in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Law; the word in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (the Christ; the Law in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak. The circumcision made without hands) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:4-8)

So we do not make void the Law through THE FAITH we establish it. For Christ (the Word in our hearts and mouth; the Faith in which we speak) is the end of the law (that which was written ink and on tables of stone) for righteousness to all that believe.

For the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 )

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment (to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul) which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (CHRIST; the commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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="posthuman, post: 3684700, member: 170505"]the one Galatians 3 is talking about.

it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”
The Law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The one who does these things will live by them.”
(Galatians 3:11-12)

the apostle is quoting YHVH spoken through Moses in the Law itself:


Very true. But the mainstream preachers of his time were teaching that one must follow the Priesthood "Works of the Law" for justification and were passing this false teaching on to the Galatians. They were not preaching to "Love God and your Neighbors as did Moses. They had a religion which "OMITTED" these weightier matters of the law. At least that is what the Messiah of the Bible teaches.

So yes, the belief that it is the Priests and their "Works" which justified them is false. It was always the Blood of the Christ that cleansed their sins.
.

You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.
(Leviticus 18:4-5)

same as in Romans 10:5.
same as Jesus Christ says to the man under the Law who didn't understand what he'd done wrong by calling the Lord '
good teacher' :

if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(Matthew 19:17)
Christ then lists several of the 10 commandments given on the tablets, before Israel asked for Moses to be a mediator. He excludes the sabbath ((pay attention to verse 21 tho)) and all feasts. He excludes 'have no other gods before Me' -- which He had just told the man already when He asked him why he called Him 'good' and declared that no one is good but God alone. He adds "love thy neighbor as thyself" -- this is not one of the 10 commandments. He does not mention anything about atonement.


You are correct in that the Word which became Flesh said the exact same things as the Man Jesus. Though many refuse this truth.

But You missed an important part of Matt. 19. Post.

18 He saith unto him, Which?

Which Commandments? He didn't mention the Priesthood which was created to cleanse sin "Till the Seed should come". Why not? It was part of the Law.

If God's Law is one big chunk as you preach, that can not be separated, as you preach, then why did the man say "Which" Commandments?

Because the Law also says: 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

"After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts". No more Levite Priests to filter the Word.

"for I will forgive their iniquity". No more Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for atonement.

You might also note that the Messiah was forgiving the sins of people for 3 years and never once killed a goat or sprinkled a drop of animal blood. But He did still keep His Father's Sabbath Holy, and He still kept His Fathers Feasts. If you are interested in knowing "WHICH" Commandments, look no further than our Savior.

Christ therefore tells this man the same thing He told all of Israel through Moses: if you do the works of the Law you will have life. Christ calls the 10 commandments part of the Law. He also calls Leviticus 19 part of the Law. we all know the feasts and the sacrifices and the festivals and the rules for cleanliness and uncleanness are part of the Law. one Law.


But wait a minute here Post. There was a law, written specifically for the Levites, specifically for the service of the Sanctuary. This Law contained sacrificial "Works of the Law" necessary to cleanse the participants of their sin and for the errors of the people..

Paul knew of the difference and taught as much.

Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay:

This is the same question the man asked the Messiah in Matt. 19. "Which" commandments? (By what Law), Did the Messiah mention the Priesthood and it's "works" given through Moses for atonement? No Post, because these are the "Deeds of the Law" that changed when the Messiah (SEED) came.

but by the law of faith.

The Mainstream Preachers of His time had "OMITTED" this law from their religion.

"and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone"

this is "
the Law" written of in Galatians. and in Romans.
this Law, same chapter:


if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the Law.
(Galatians 3:21)
which cannot impart righteousness.
which is not of faith: because it says "
do"
--

And what Law was written to take away the penalty until the Christ came? According to the "Law of Moses", when I sinned (became unrighteous) how was this sin to be cleansed of to take away my unrighteousness? And since we know the Blood of animals can remove no unrighteousness, we know, as Paul teaches, that righteousness can not come from the Law. The Messiah, with His Blood, takes away my unrighteousness.

But the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time didn't believe this. They were still preaching to the Galatians this obsolete Priesthood with it's "Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins. (to make one righteous)

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
(Galatians 3:10)

that Law. Deuteronomy 21
.


So we know these "Works of the Law" didn't remove my unrighteous. So I must "keep the whole Law" to be righteous. But I have already broken the Law, so I am unrighteous already. Nothing I can do will change this. I can keep all God's Laws from here on out, but my sins, which bring my guilt, which brings my death, still remains. So if I am relying on the "Deeds of the Law" to remove my unrighteousness, and not the Grace of God, I am under a curse. Dead in my sins and doomed regardless of what I do.

hope you have a nice time trying to twist Galatians into only talking about the sacrificial system :)
a good sword resists torsion extremely well.
You can try to preach that the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to "Love God and Love their neighbor" to receive the Spirit of truth if you want. I'm sure the Pope and Jack Van Impe will agree with you all day long. But the Messiah of the Bible doesn't teach this.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Pick, Pick, Pick.

I believe it has been found in a single manucript, and I believe there are Hebrew versions of Mat, John and Revelation, and I believe theos does not occur in the "Old Testament" yet the ancient translators translated YHWH in "theos" in the Septuagint.
I'm sad that you feel I was being picky.

if we respect God's personal name, then when we look through the Bible we realize there are sections where it is not used.

For example it is not used at all in the first story of creation, then used regularly in the second story of creation, paired with God.

Check out this URL. I used the world English Bible because it uses Yahweh, making it easy to search for.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicks...&quicksearch=Yahweh&begin=22&end=22&limit=500

some interesting things pop out just looking at it casually. God's name occurs regularly throughout the Psalms, except for that one section between Psalm 58 and 68, where it occurs only once.

Check out where it occurs in the book of Job. at the beginning and then I think only once until chapter 38.

not at all in the Book of Ecclesiastes. so I think it's important to notice when God has his personal name in the scriptures and when he doesn't.

did the New Testament Apostles and Prophets use it in their Originals? I think they didn't, but I'm interested if you can give me a source for that manuscript you think they found.

the Hebrew versions of the New Testament books you mentioned, how old are they? are they translations?

yes, I agree that theos doesn't occur in the Hebrew of the Old Testament. When the Septuagint translators came to God's name, they usually rendered it as Lord, kyrios, and the New Testament does the same thing when it quotes the old.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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sure man

Yeshua = YHWH SAVES
I hear what you're saying, and yes the shortened form, yah, does occur in new testament names like Jesus, Elijah, the last syllable of Isaiah, I believe. and the two times the Book of Revelation uses Hallelujah.

but as the Greek or Hebrew equivalent of the letters YHWH it doesn't occur.

what I'm talking about is the practice of many nice Hebrew Roots folks and Jehovah's Witnesses who want to insert God's full personal name into the New Testament, usually as a replacement for the title God.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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That has nothing to do with it
well,I disagree.
especially in the context of the nice person that I had been discussing the first few chapters of Romans with, especially chapters 3 and 4, the particular way in which the King James had rendered it I think was causing confusion.


Yes it is.
if you'd like to take a look at the original Greek of that passage that I quoted, and we could see whether or not that particular rendering was showing new-age influences, I think that would be a great idea! Would you like to?

No it doesn't.
again, let's take a look at the original, and hash it out, see what it says!
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Grandpa said:


Its really not that complicated. A person really has to twist scripture to continue to work at the law and call themselves Christian.

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut. 30:12-14. The Roman Church was a mixture of Jew and Gentile. The would have been utilizing the Torah because that is the Holy Scripture they had. Paul knew this and knew that when he paraphrased Deuteronomy they would be moved to look it up.

We through Christ went from having to obey that which was written with ink and on tables of stone to being that which was written and intended. As a matter of fact is was always suppose to be about being. This is the Faith of GOD and HIS Christ. This is what GOD has been offering and the stone to which they stumble on.

For Christ (the word in your heart and mouth; the faith in which we speak) is the end of the law (that which was written with ink and on tables of stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law , That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Law; the word in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Law; the word in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (the Christ; the Law in our hearts and mouths. Which is the Faith in which we speak. The circumcision made without hands) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:4-8)

So we do not make void the Law through THE FAITH we establish it. For Christ (the Word in our hearts and mouth; the Faith in which we speak) is the end of the law (that which was written ink and on tables of stone) for righteousness to all that believe.

For the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 )

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment (to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul) which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (CHRIST; the commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14)
Well, there it is. Just like what I said.

A person really has to twist scriptures to continue to work at the law and call themselves Christian.

All the words in parenthesis in bold are your twist on scripture and are false.


How much sense does it make to say we are not under law but under Grace if you re-twist scriptures to state that Grace is the law?

How much sense does it make to say we rest in Christ and not our works at the law if Christ is the law?

How much sense does it make to say that those who are of the works of the law are under the curse if we are all obligated to always work at the law, whether we have come to Christ or not?


Your wrong, circular reasoning philosophy causes no Rest in Christ and continual condemnation. You don't know it because you don't understand Christ and you don't understand the law.

I'm pretty sure that it is intentional to try and defend the theology of your religion. A lot of people come up with irrational philosophies to defend their religions.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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They were still preaching to the Galatians this obsolete Priesthood with it's "Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins.
So you say, but what does the scripture actually say?
read the actual epistle. find me where Paul is fussing at them for making atonement sacrifices, as you're trying to argue.
what the book actually says is that the issues were 'a different gospel' (ch 1), circumcision (ch 2), works rather than faith (ch 3), observing special days (ch 4), and generally thinking they were under the Law (ch 5) with regard to all these things.
someone was telling them all this, convincing them that it was all required as having become believers. it sounds awfully familiar, honesty.

but yeah, your words mean squat. you say Galatians is about Levitical atonement sacrifices everywhere it says "the Law"? great. so what that you say something? we know you don't always give true testimony, we've all seen that. prove your opinion from the text of Galatians please.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
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Its really not that complicated. A person really has to twist scripture to continue to work at the law and call themselves Christian.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

What was the yoke that neither the disciples nor their fathers were able to bear? The law of Moses.

Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The Lord Jesus gives us rest from the yoke that we are not able to bear, the law of Moses.

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


Galatians 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
(those who labour and are heavy laden by their work at the law of Moses, the 10 commandments)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(those who have faith and are learning of Christ)

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
(those who have come to Christ and have received Rest)

First Roman's is talking about a sect of believers in the Jewish religion that kept the tradition of the elders,(the law of Moses). These who were trying to command the proselyte among the early assembly to get circumcised were trying to convert them to Jewish Religious beliefs.
This is the dogma of men and not the scriptural truth.

Second Hebrew 4...
How did the Father cease from His work? He rested on Sabbath and set it apart from all the other days. You highlight, "he also has ceased from his own works" but not, "as God did from his"?
Sounds like you're deceived by tradition of men.

As for Galatians it only confirms for me that the Law of the Spirit and life is good for instruction and direction of a believers life.
There are consistently two laws mentioned. The Law of sin and death and the law of the Spirit and life. This is allegorical to the two laws of Israel. One for the foreigner living among you and one for Israel. They are the same Law and as such a foreshadow of the truth of Elohim being revealed through the Messiah.
That is go provide a new heart or renewed heart that seeks after the instruction of Elohim meant for mankind to live-in. We have life through faith and walk by faith. What does it profit anyone to say, "I believe that Messiah died for me" if they never received the word of perseverance? This word is the Law which has become filled up with the life giving spirit thermos upon Messiah so we too may inherit the Kingdom of promise.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
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I'm sad that you feel I was being picky.

if we respect God's personal name, then when we look through the Bible we realize there are sections where it is not used.

For example it is not used at all in the first story of creation, then used regularly in the second story of creation, paired with God.

Check out this URL. I used the world English Bible because it uses Yahweh, making it easy to search for.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicks...&quicksearch=Yahweh&begin=22&end=22&limit=500

some interesting things pop out just looking at it casually. God's name occurs regularly throughout the Psalms, except for that one section between Psalm 58 and 68, where it occurs only once.

Check out where it occurs in the book of Job. at the beginning and then I think only once until chapter 38.

not at all in the Book of Ecclesiastes. so I think it's important to notice when God has his personal name in the scriptures and when he doesn't.

did the New Testament Apostles and Prophets use it in their Originals? I think they didn't, but I'm interested if you can give me a source for that manuscript you think they found.

the Hebrew versions of the New Testament books you mentioned, how old are they? are they translations?

yes, I agree that theos doesn't occur in the Hebrew of the Old Testament. When the Septuagint translators came to God's name, they usually rendered it as Lord, kyrios, and the New Testament does the same thing when it quotes the old.
The oldest manuscripts I have come across are written in Aramaic and come from the first century assembly. I would need to check if the name is mentioned. However important this is it is not as important as walking in sanctification.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The oldest manuscripts I have come across are written in Aramaic and come from the first century assembly. I would need to check if the name is mentioned. However important this is it is not as important as walking in sanctification.
I know of 2 or 3 1st century fragments and they are all Greek. which one are you talking about? thanks.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
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I know of 2 or 3 1st century fragments and they are all Greek. which one are you talking about? thanks.
Originally given to our president decades ago from our Arab brothers. These codex are known as the Eastern Aramaic Renewed Covenant writings.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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So you say, but what does the scripture actually say?
read the actual epistle. find me where Paul is fussing at them for making atonement sacrifices, as you're trying to argue.
what the book actually says is that the issues were 'a different gospel' (ch 1), circumcision (ch 2), works rather than faith (ch 3), observing special days (ch 4), and generally thinking they were under the Law (ch 5) with regard to all these things.
someone was telling them all this, convincing them that it was all required as having become believers. it sounds awfully familiar, honesty.

but yeah, your words mean squat. you say Galatians is about Levitical atonement sacrifices everywhere it says "the Law"? great. so what that you say something? we know you don't always give true testimony, we've all seen that. prove your opinion from the text of Galatians please.
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

I can only go by what the scriptures say. Not "Parts" of the Word as did the mainstream preachers of Christ's time, but all of the Words.

I only know of one example of "Works of the Law" given by Moses, created to remove unrighteousness from a man. If you want to deny this, reject this, omit this from your religion, you are free to do so. But as you said, "your words mean squat".

So since I trust Him and His Words, this is where I get the understanding I'm sharing with you.

And given that Jesus taught.

John 14:
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

And Peter taught;

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

And Paul taught;

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And even you Post, EVEN YOU must recognize that the ENTIRE Law and Prophets teaches to listen and obey God, not religious man. This truth can not be denied.

So when the Jews, who Jesus said:

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not Gog as you preach)

and again:

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, (Like Zechariahs did) and not to leave the other undone.

and again:

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?


and again:

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

and again:

John 8:
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

So we know from the Messiah, that even though "many" on this forum preach the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's Commandments, the truth that they reject, is that they did not. Since this insidious lie is part of the foundation of many religions, everything they preach on top of this is corrupted. Even as this Same Lord warned them. "Beware of the Leaven of the Pharisees", and again "A little leaven leavens the whole lump".

So who is Paul taking about in Galatians? Islam? Buddha? No, He is talking about preachers "bewitching" someone by teaching "works of a Law" presumably from God..

And what were they preaching? That only by doing the "works of a Law" that Paul said Abraham didn't have, but was "ADDED" 430 years later, could man be justified.

So if I listen to Jesus and not to you. I would know that the Pharisees were all about the tithes but not about the "Weightier matters of the LAW, like mercy, JUDGMENT and FAITH.

Num. 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

This tells me they were pushing "Parts" of the Law. What parts? "Mercy? Judgment? Faith? No Post, The Levitical Priesthood Parts. God, in His Tender Mercy, dedicated 3 whole chapters in Hebrews just to teach us about the "change" in this Priesthood the Bible calls the New Covenant.

Your preaching that "Works of the Law" pushed by the Pharisees onto the Gentiles and Galatians means "Mercy, Judgment and Faith" along with animal sacrifice has zero support in the rest of the Bible. Your preaching that these "laws" are against us and Jesus came to "Remove them" and "Free us from them" is a popular religion to be true and certainly does keep the cash rolling into the church coffers. But it is a falsehood, a deception, an insidious lie that was started with the Serpent and continues to this day in spite of all the warning Jesus gave, both as the Word and as the Man.

You preaching implies that the Jews, sometime after the cross, and with no warnings or prophesies foretelling it, suddenly turned to God and started following all of God's Commandments, Feast Days, Sabbaths, Priesthood duties and were trying to "Bewitch" the Galatians into following God would be laughable, if it wasn't for how many people have been deceived into believing just that.

Now I never say obedience forgives sin. I have sin on me and it is my Faith that Jesus will remove these in "that day".

What this is about is what Paul is teaching, what the Bible teaches. You asked me to "prove" that it was the Jews version of the Levitical Priesthood that the Jews were still pushing on the people. You study this post, and honestly tell me where I am injecting my own religious views into the scripture that is not there.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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I'm sad that you feel I was being picky.

if we respect God's personal name, then when we look through the Bible we realize there are sections where it is not used.
Have not you got on me about the use of His name a number of times? And yes after the pharisees banned the used of His name upon threat of beating, prison or death many did not speak His name any longer, even in Hebrew writings adnoai vowels were used and pronounced rather than YHWH. As for when it is and is not used it is used nearly 7,000 times.

Psalm 45:17, "I will make Your Name to be remembered in all generations! Therefore shall the nations praise You for ever and ever!"

Jeremiah 12:14-17, "This is what YHWH says against all My evil neighbors who touch the inheritance which I have caused My people Israyl to inherit: Behold, I will pluck them up from off their land, and I will pluck up the house of Yahdah from among them. And it will come to pass, after I have plucked them out, that I will return and have compassion on them, and bring them back; everyone to his heritage and everyone to his land. And it will come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of My people, to vow by My Name, saying; As surely as YHWH lives--as they once taught My people to vow by Baal (Lord) then they will be established in the midst of My people. But if they do not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, says YHWH."

For example it is not used at all in the first story of creation, then used regularly in the second story of creation, paired with God.
I dont believe in the 2 creations theory also this shows it was YHWH who created in chapter 1:

Genesis 2:4, “These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that יהוה Elohim made earth and heavens.”

If YHWH made the heavens and earth then it is Him in chapter 1

Check out this URL. I used the world English Bible because it uses Yahweh, making it easy to search for.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicks...&quicksearch=Yahweh&begin=22&end=22&limit=500
I have a number of interlinears in hard copy I understand original language and where YHWH appears, this is to thee same coin but the other side: usage of YHWH when translated into the Koine Greek by the translators of the Septuagint, they knew the language better than any human alive today:

H3068 * יְהֹוָה (yəhōwāh)
yehovah G1203 * δεσπότης (despotēs) despotes
yehovah G2316 * θεός (theos) theos
yehovah G2962 * κύριος (kurios) kurios

SO if you take issue with me rendering theos and kyrios as YHWH, I would ask do you take issue with the translators of the Septuagint rendering YHWH as theos and kyrios

Are you ok with satan being called "theos" here" in Pauls writings?

ἐν οἷς ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου ἐτύφλωσεν τὰ νοήματα τῶν ἀπίστων εἰς τὸ μὴ αὐγάσαι τὸν φωτισμὸν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τῆς δόξης τοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ Θεοῦ.

DO you take issue with my use of YHWH but are ok if I use a term that can be used for YHWH or Satan?

some interesting things pop out just looking at it casually. God's name occurs regularly throughout the Psalms, except for that one section between Psalm 58 and 68, where it occurs only once.

Check out where it occurs in the book of Job. at the beginning and then I think only once until chapter 38.

not at all in the Book of Ecclesiastes. so I think it's important to notice when God has his personal name in the scriptures and when he doesn't.

did the New Testament Apostles and Prophets use it in their Originals? I think they didn't, but I'm interested if you can give me a source for that manuscript you think they found.

the Hebrew versions of the New Testament books you mentioned, how old are they? are they translations?

yes, I agree that theos doesn't occur in the Hebrew of the Old Testament. When the Septuagint translators came to God's name, they usually rendered it as Lord, kyrios, and the New Testament does the same thing when it quotes the old.
When its not used in Hebrew is different than PLACEHOILDERS that are used in the NT, that is why I pointed out the translation of the Septuagint... The Hebrew Mat is 13th century if I remember correctly, I have the microfilm of the original and 4 translations of it, it is indeed the most original in content, and not a translation as shown by Hebrew word puns that are translated into the Aramaic and Greek but make no sense, in Hebrew they make sense, the historians of that day say Mat wrote it in Hebrew but it is unknown how close our modern Heb Mat is to the original and without someone studying it and the greek and aramaic version they can not even form a true opinion. John and Revelation are not complete and recently discovered and I know little about them but I do have a photocopy of both of them to study them myself. and again YHWH was removed by Rabbinical decree/law, and most bible admit in their preface that they saty with this tradition becacause it is comfortable, what did Yahshua say about rabbinical traditions?