Sabbath

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Aug 16, 2018
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I am saying-keeping the jewish Sabbath has nothing to do with salvation by faith in Christ.
Fortunately, I am able to tell you what is being discussed here is not the Jewish Sabbath.
It is God's ordained Sabbath day as described in the creation texts in the Old Testament and was not changed at all by the Lord of the Sabbath, Christ, in the New.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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It's not a "jewish Sabbath"

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

It is Yah's Sabbath:


Mat 12:8, “For the Son of Aḏam is Master of the Sabbath.”

Mark 2:28, “So the Son of Aḏam is also Master of the Sabbath.”

Luke 6:5, “And He said to them, “The Son of Aḏam is Master of the Sabbath.”

Isaiah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: *from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Fortunately, I am able to tell you what is being discussed here is not the Jewish Sabbath.
It is God's ordained Sabbath day as described in the creation texts in the Old Testament and was not changed at all by the Lord of the Sabbath, Christ, in the New.
I am able to tell you, you are mistaken. gentiles were never under, nor placed under the Law of Moses, and were never commanded to keep the Sabbath.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
687
113
I am able to tell you, you are mistaken. gentiles were never under, nor placed under the Law of Moses, and were never commanded to keep the Sabbath.
Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”





Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”



and yes the 7th day Sabbath is spoken by the MEssiah:


Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

the Isaiah 58 understanding is given as opposed to the rabinnical pharisee understanding...
 
Aug 16, 2018
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I am able to tell you, you are mistaken. gentiles were never under, nor placed under the Law of Moses, and were never commanded to keep the Sabbath.
Unfortunately, you're teaching what is false in many respects. However, you seem to have a great issue with the topic at hand and therefore as I am no fan of conflict I shall leave you to it.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Faith is the subject. This Faith in which we speak comes from Christ; the Word in our hearts and mouths. Israel was focusing on the works of the Law but their hearts were never of GOD. They stumbled at the stumblingstone having never had Faith that is of GOD through HIS Christ. This Faith has always been available to them that was Paul through the Spirit was sharing when he paraphrased Deuteronomy 30:12-14. But they never received it. They stumbled at the stumbling stone
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith
(For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )
(Rom 2:14-15 KJV)

. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness ( that which is not of faith), hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith (they would not receive the promise of GOD; HIS Word; Christ in the Heart, mouth and mind) , but as it were by the works of the law (by what they were doing not by what they could be through GOD'S indwelling changing power. The circumcision made without hands)). For they stumbled at that stumblingstone (; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness (which is through a heart of faith), and going about to establish their own righteousness (obedience from the mind and not from the heart), have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ (the word In the heart and mouth) is the end of the law (that written with ink and on tables of stone)for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word; The Commandments contained in the book of the Law that pertain to righteousness) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is,, to bring up Christ (the word; The Commandments contained in the book of the Law that pertain to righteousness) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth into righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(Rom 9:30-10:14)

"That is" in the above text in each instance connects to what is before not what is after. Here is the Strong penned.
G5123 τουτέστι toutesti (tout-es'-tee) v.
1. that is
[contraction for G5124 and G2076]
KJV: that is (to say)

In other words when Paul wrote, "That is the faith in which we preach" He was referring to what was previously stated. The word; Christ being nigh unto us. In our hearts and mouths is the Faith in which we preach and this is the Faith that Israel in general was missing but had available to them since Moses preach it in Deut. 30:12-14. The circumcision made without hands.
Romans 9:31-33
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

That's the 10 commandments. The Letter that was written on Stone.

Romans 7:9-14
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


Paul, himself, says here that the he followed the law of righteousness but was not able to attain to that righteousness.

The commandment which promised life and blessing was death and condemnation to him.

As it is to everyone who finally understands what the law says.

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


Christ cannot possibly be the 10 commandments, the ministration of death and condemnation and simultaneously promise rest and no condemnation.

How is the ministration of the spirit more glorious than Christ Himself. Which for you is the 10 commandments, the ministration of death and condemnation??

How does the ministration of righteousness exceed Christ in glory?

Neither of those things is possible. Which is why when you replace Christ with the 10 commandments you make a grave error.


Its circular reasoning in order to defend working at the law when Christ gives rest from that.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Unfortunately, you're teaching what is false in many respects. However, you seem to have a great issue with the topic at hand and therefore as I am no fan of conflict I shall leave you to it.
I do not like conflict either . but, when people are pushing the falsehood of Sabbath keeping for salvation, I have to stand against it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Still looking for the instructions from Jesus or His Apostles that specifically instructs the Church as to how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.


If you have any, please share.



JPT
if you mean 'seventh day' by the word 'sabbath' that can be different than if you mean 'rest from your labor' ;)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It makes a big difference when you say something that is false. Here is the reason for the Sabbath. After the 6 days of creation God rested.

Genesis 2 NIV
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
also Christ says this:

My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.
(John 5:17)
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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As in the Law has been transferred, not mediated by Levites but mediated by Yahshua the High Priest. This “change” or “metatithemi” is a transferral.
then what is the answer to JPT's question:

is there a command from Jesus recorded anywhere in the gospels giving instruction for observance of the seventh day?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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“change” is word #G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy)

Just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down (tithēmi | τίθημι | pres act ind 1 sg) My life for My sheep.
(John 10:17)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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and yes the 7th day Sabbath is spoken by the MEssiah:


Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."
then whoever does righteousness is already keeping the sabbath ((?))
anyone who walks in the light does righteousness.
do they need someone to come and tell them the written code says do what they are already doing '
because it's shabbat' ?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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then what is the answer to JPT's question:

is there a command from Jesus recorded anywhere in the gospels giving instruction for observance of the seventh day?
One we are to do as He did, He said the Sabbath is made for doing righteousness as Isaiah 58 says...

But to the point there is this:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

SO unless heaven and earth passed.., and it did not, so that means it is still valid.

He also thought it would still be valid:

Matthew 24:20, “And pray that your flight does not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.”

The apostles kept it and it;s not for "Jews" only see Isaiah 56:1-7...

it was prophesied that evil powers who THINK to chage it:

Daniel 7:25, “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change appointed times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”

appointed times” is word #H2166 – zeman, Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) a set time, time, season

all I need is the MEssiah telling me nothing passed from the Law unless heaven and earth pass, it has not. For me I don't look for excuses to be fooled by the one spoken of in Dan 7:25...

can you explain Dani 7:25 and zeman to me if you disagree and think the Sabbath has been changed?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Fortunately, I am able to tell you what is being discussed here is not the Jewish Sabbath.
It is God's ordained Sabbath day as described in the creation texts in the Old Testament and was not changed at all by the Lord of the Sabbath, Christ, in the New.
Methinks you should go with what Jesus said about the law!!

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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think the Sabbath has been changed?
sunday is definitely not sabbath as the Law describes it; i've never thought so.
unless it's supposed to be calculated by the new moon. then only sometimes sunday is.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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then whoever does righteousness is already keeping the sabbath ((?))
anyone who walks in the light does righteousness.
do they need someone to come and tell them the written code says do what they are already doing '
because it's shabbat' ?
Ill reply to this after, I want to say this first...

DO you understand the intent of the Sabbath according to YHWH as opposed to the "rabbis"?

According to YHWH:

Isaiah 58:11-14, “YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it.”

A day set apart for His will, anythign that is His will, we are not supposed to do our own will on this day. It's not about rest as in relaxing, it's about days 1-6 are for our own work, day 7 is dedicated to His.

And please do not say "do His will every day" sounds wonderful but people have to mow the lawn, do the dishes, etc, theese things are not evil but mowing the lawn is not THE WILL OF GOD! it is our own work. Or please dont say "you only worship God1 day a week: that is also false, worship everyday, pray everyday, do His will at any opportunity is best, however working a 40 hour a week job one is not doing His work, that is their own work, again not sin but not His will/work...

Hebrews 4:10-11, “For the one, having entered into His rest, has himself also rested from his works, as YHWH rested from His own. Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.”

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

I would say yes most people need Scriptual guidance, do we need Jesus words to know what He wants us to do? If not then throuw your bible out? Of course not, the Word is how we ensure the right Spirit is leading us...

Example: I know people that keep Sabbath (Saturday) and Sunday, and say they are watching football as "rest" or insert any similar thigns here. Were if they read Isaiah 58 they may see it is for His will... Just an example I could give many, but why typr out 100 examples,,,
 
Aug 16, 2018
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I am able to tell you, you are mistaken. gentiles were never under, nor placed under the Law of Moses, and were never commanded to keep the Sabbath.
It wasn't the law of Moses. It is the law of God.
If your perspective is grounded in scripture, that would mean the gentiles are not obligated to uphold the other 9 commands.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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sunday is definitely not sabbath as the Law describes it; i've never thought so.
unless it's supposed to be calculated by the new moon. then only sometimes sunday is.
Most people think the Sabbath is transferred to Sunday, I was actually taught something similar to this growing up. I was taught Sabbath (Sat) is for Jews, and SUnday is for Gentiles, it was not until I studied Scripture and history that I realized this teaching was false.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Prayer is a great way to learn how to serve the Father during Sabbath. Others cannot speak Father's will for you on Sabbath. Only Sabbath can.
So there are no scriptures from Jesus or His Apostles that instruct the Church how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?


Must not be very important.


Other than we need to rest one day a week.



JLB