Sabbath

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Yahshua

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Sep 22, 2013
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2 Peter 3:14-18 [Berean]
Therefore, beloved, expecting these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and without blemish.

15 And esteem the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom having been given to him, as also in all the letters speaking in them concerning these things, among which some things are difficult to be understood, which the ignorant and unestablished distort to their own destruction, as also the other Scriptures.

17 Therefore beloved, knowing this beforehand, you beware, lest you should fall from the own steadfastness, having been led away by the error of the lawless.

18 But grow in grace and in knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

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Simplified to Key words & Phrases

Be Diligent - synonyms: be industrious, hard-working, assiduous, conscientious, particular, punctilious, meticulous, painstaking, rigorous, careful, thorough, sedulous, earnest

Without Spot and Without Blemish - without corruption (also a requirement of the Passover Lamb in Exodus 12:5 & Luke 23:4).

Esteem the patience of Christ as salvation - to be found by him in peace when he comes

Paul also wrote concerning these things - As written in the New Testament letters

Some things are difficult to be understood - But admittedly some things are hard to understand in those letters.

which the ignorant and unestablished distort - twisted by the [unlearned] (but in what way? How are they unestablished?)

as also other scripture - The only other scripture that existed at the time of Peter writing this letter.

Therefore - so in conclusion to what was Peter just said.

beware lest you should fall - guard against falling for

by the error of the lawless - the error of those disobedient to Yah's law

but grow in grace - instead, we should grow in grace; the power to say no to sin (as defined in Timothy 2 11:14)

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Simplified Even Further

Work hard...
to be clean/blameless...
found in peace when he comes...
Paul wrote about it...
but somethings he wrote are hard to get...
which are distorted by the unlearned...
as with the OT...
therefore...
be careful not to fall for...
the error of those breaking Yah's law...
but grow in the power to say no to sin.


...I mean, for it to be any clearer we'd need Peter resurrected from the dead so he could repeat it himself. But then again, I imagine what Christ said would then come true.

Luke 16:31
"[Abraham] said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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2 Peter 3:15-18
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Well theres part of your problem. Your version that you are quoting from is misleading and corrupt.

Your version is leading people away with the error of the wicked by its carnal implication. It takes someone who REALLY understands the scripture to be able to translate your corrupt version properly.

Verse 18 explicitly says to grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Your corrupt version forgot to twist this to mean something other than what it says. But its really important to show the CONTRADICTION of those corrupt passages and the corruption of the ensuing thoughts that come from them.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

But your corrupt version states that you are under both. The real bible says you get one or you get the other.

Either Grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ OR continue to let sin have dominion over you and follow your own understanding of your carnal view of the law.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

NOW, lets address without spot and blemish... Can a person be without spot and blemish by working hard at not being "lawless" and following all of the 10 commandments as best as possible???

If so, then Christ is dead in vain, God forbid.

NO. Righteousness comes by faith in the POWER of the Lord Jesus Christ. Coming to Christ and Resting in His Gift of Righteousness and not trying to work hard at establishing your own "righteousness".

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

It is kind of hard to really understand this language. Labour to enter rest? Otherwise you will fall into unbelief?

Yes. Your job is to Grow in the Grace and in the Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ so you will know without a shadow of a doubt who is doing the saving and who is making whom Righteous. Who is Obedient and who is not.

That is laboring to enter into Rest.


Well, be careful with your circular reasoning that brings you constantly back to the error of the wicked, ooops, I mean back to your carnal "obedience" to the law.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Well there's part of your problem. Your version that you are quoting from is misleading and corrupt.

Your version is leading people away with the error of the wicked by its carnal implication. It takes someone who REALLY understands the scripture to be able to translate your corrupt version properly.

Verse 18 explicitly says to grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Your corrupt version forgot to twist this to mean something other than what it says. But its really important to show the CONTRADICTION of those corrupt passages and the corruption of the ensuing thoughts that come from them.
2 Peter 3:17

NIV
Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

NLT
I am warning you ahead of time, dear friends. Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked people and lose your own secure footing

ESV
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.

BEREAN
Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.

NASB
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

KJV
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

GREEK Transliteration
Hymeis oun agapetoi proginōskontes phylassesthe hina me te ton athesmōn planē synapachthentes ekpesēte tou idiou stērigmou

athesmon - compound Greek word (a = no; not) (thesmon = set in place; order); ancient meaning = what is illegal; contrary to statute. [biblehub word-studies; Athesmos]


What illegality could Peter possibly be referring to in context of "unlearned folks twisting Paul's words"?

Next, what is grace? Your contradiction arises from a misunderstanding of what grace is. Grace is not Mercy (i.e. unmerited favor/pardon). Mercy is mercy. Grace is grace. Yah always been known to dispensed mercy to those who didn't deserve it since the OT (Exodus 33:19). Let's let scripture explain what Grace is.


2 Corinthians 12: 9 - Grace = Christ's Power/Strength given to weak man

Ephesians 4:7 - Grace is measured out to each believer in portions.

Acts 6:8 (2 Peter 1:2) - Grace can fill up the believer. We can receive more.

2 Corinthians 8:7 (1 Peter 4:10) - Grace leads to divine gifts for the work of Yah

Titus 2:11-14 - Grace teaches man to say "NO" to ungodliness (i.e. sin)

John 1:14 - Christ was filled full of grace.


Conclusion: Grace is not a state of being or position or standing with Yah. Grace is a divine element/possession that's meant to be used by the recipient.

Grace is not unearned forgiveness or unmerited favor. Grace is Christ's very own divine power to perform as Christ performed in this world. To walk as He walked and live as He lived: sinlessly, in obedience to Yah and in authority over the world's temptations.

This is why we're told to GROW in grace. GROW is the very same strength that has been apportioned to each believer to live like Christ; conforming to His image more and more each day.

...This is also why Paul explains to Timothy that some can have a form of godliness but literally deny the POWER of that very same living God ( 2 Timothy 3:5).

Grace is meant to be used to stop sinning (i.e. obey Yah's law).

When we have this true understanding of Grace, it perfectly harmonizes with what Peter is saying in the passage:


2 Peter 3:18
...but grow in the Grace and in the Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

GROW in the power to say NO to sin.
GROW in the power to obey Yah.
actually GROW in oneness with Christ, who knew no sin.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

But your corrupt version states that you are under both. The real bible says you get one or you get the other.

Either Grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ OR continue to let sin have dominion over you and follow your own understanding of your carnal view of the law.
With respect, this is an example of how Paul's words can be twisted without the fundamentals...

- Not one iota of the law passes away until all is fulfilled. All has not been fulfilled yet so the law remains.

- One must obey Yah's law for eternal life (Matthew 19:16-17).

- One who disobeys the law must die (i.e. under the WEIGHT/PENALTY of law).

- Belief in Christ saves one from that death penalty (i.e. no longer under the WEIGHT/PENALTY of law).

- Grace also comes from belief in Christ.

- One can not obey the law without Grace.

- Grace is the divine power of Christ to obey Yah's law, portioned out to believers (i.e. now under the STRENGTH/POWER of grace).

- Grace must be grown.

- Claiming that it is a sin to obey Yah's law is not biblical. It's twisted. It's wicked. It's athesmon. as 2 Peter 3:17 says.

- Thus the law is established by faith in Christ, not nullified (Romans 3:31). Yah forbid!

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

NOW, lets address without spot and blemish... Can a person be without spot and blemish by working hard at not being "lawless" and following all of the 10 commandments as best as possible???

If so, then Christ is dead in vain, God forbid.

NO. Righteousness comes by faith in the POWER of the Lord Jesus Christ. Coming to Christ and Resting in His Gift of Righteousness and not trying to work hard at establishing your own "righteousness".
- Justification is not sanctification.

- Justification = Through Yah's MERCY we were justified (i.e. "no longer guilty"; cleaned) by faith in Christ. Stage 1. Which you and I agree with. It's salvation. The foundation. Let's now move on.

- Sanctification = Using Christ's power - called GRACE - to become like him, sinless. It's stage 2. The power many deny, calling its usage "self-righteousness", being deceived by sin to believe that sin is too strong to overcome.

- There will be no glorification (i.e. MARRIAGE) for those who are not first sanctified without spot or blemish. The Husband is only returning for a spotless bride (Ephesians 5:27). Sin is what stains. Sin is breaking Yah's law. We have to stop sinning. We have to stop breaking Yah's law.

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

It is kind of hard to really understand this language. Labour to enter rest? Otherwise you will fall into unbelief?

Yes. Your job is to Grow in the Grace and in the Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ so you will know without a shadow of a doubt who is doing the saving and who is making whom Righteous. Who is Obedient and who is not.

That is laboring to enter into Rest.


Well, be careful with your circular reasoning that brings you constantly back to the error of the wicked, ooops, I mean back to your carnal "obedience" to the law.
Wait...So we need to labor to understand who is doing the saving? It wasn't enough for us to just be told? And then we need to study to fully understand that we don't need to do anything because there's nothing we're meant to do? ......isn't that literally circular?

What about Revelation 14:12?
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Why would the gospel need to be preached again in the end times? Why does that gospel also include keeping Yah's commandments if even attempting to is "carnal self-righteous obedience & sin"?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Wait...So we need to labor to understand who is doing the saving?
Yes.

It wasn't enough for us to just be told?
Obviously not. There are still people working at the law thinking that obedience to their carnal understanding of it is what will bring life.

And then we need to study to fully understand that we don't need to do anything because there's nothing we're meant to do? ......isn't that literally circular?
We need to study to find out that we don't work at the law in our own carnal understanding because that way is futile.

What we do instead is Grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

How is it that you don't understand what this is saying???

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Galatiand 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 3:24-26
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


1 Timothy 1:9-11
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.


I can't cause you to grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

As your faith is, so is it unto you. Which is kind of a bummer. Not just for you. But for all of us who fall short of perfect faith in Christ.


The OT is over and its Law absolutely was fulfilled by Christ Jesus. Otherwise, no one would ever be able to tell us we are under Grace and NOT LAW. No one would be able to ask Are you so Foolish? Having started in the Spirit are you now made perfect by your flesh and subsequent work at the law?
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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LUKE 4 [16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.[17] And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,[18] THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR; HE HATH SENT ME TO HEAL THE BROKENHEARTED, TO PREACH DELIVERANCE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERING OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET AT LIBERTY THEM THAT ARE BRUISED,[19] TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.[20] And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.[21] And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Theres no doubt that the scriptures Jesus was reading in Luke 4 are found in Isaiah 61 {1&2}

ISAIAH 61 [1] THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD GOD IS UPON ME; BECAUSE THE LORD HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH GOOD TIDINGS UNTO THE MEEK; HE HATH SENT ME TO BIND UP THE BROKENHEARTED, TO PROCLAIM LIBERTY TO THE CAPTIVES, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;[2] To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our god; to comfort all that mourn;[3] To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.[4] And THEY SHALL BUILD THE OLD WASTES, they shall RAISE UP THE FORMER DESOLATIONS, AND THEY SHALL REPAIR THE WASTE CITIES, THE DESOLATIONS OF MANY GENERATIONS.[5] And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.[6] But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

Below you can see what these people who Jesus came for {Luke 4 v18} {Isaiah 61 v1} are going to be doing

Isaiah 61 {build the old wastes - raise up desolations of many generations - repair the waste cities}

Isaiah 58 {build the old waste - raise up foundations of many generations - repairer of the breach}

ISAIAH 58 [12] And they that shall be of thee SHALL BUILD THE OLD WASTE PLACES: thou shalt RAISE UP THE FOUNDATIONS OF MANY GENERATIONS; and thou shalt be called, THE REPAIRER OF THE BREACH, THE RESTORER OF PATHS TO DWELL IN.[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call THE SABBATH a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

REPAIR THE BREACH. Restore the path. Gods sabbath day. Will they listen?

ISAIAH 30 [9] That this is a rebellious people, LYING CHILDREN, CHILDREN THAT WILL NOT HEAR THE LAW OF THE LORD:[10] Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, SPEAK UNTO US SMOOTH THINGS, prophesy deceits:[11] Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.[12] Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:[13] Therefore THIS INIQUITY SHALL BE TO YOU AS A BREACH READY TO FALL, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.[14] And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.[15] For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; IN RETURNING AND REST SHALL YE BE SAVED; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: AND YE WOULD NOT.

Nope. The "many" will not listen. A breach ready to fall!
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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JER.17 [21] Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;[22] Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but HALLOW YE THE SABBATH DAY, as I commanded your fathers.[23] BUT THEY OBEYED NOT, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.[24] And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but HALLOW THE SABBATH DAY, to do no work therein;[25] Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and THIS CITY SHALL REMAIN FOR EVER.

Can anyone tell me what city shall remain forever. Read Jer.17 and youll find directions to that city.
 

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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Isaiah 66:17,21-24, “For look, I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to heart.” “And from them too I shall take for priests – for Lĕwites,” declares יהוה. For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make stand before Me,” declares יהוה, “so your seed and your name shall stand. And it shall be that from New moon to New moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” declares יהוה. And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm shall not die, and their fire not be quenched. And they shall be repulsive to all flesh!”

Revelation 21:1-2, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, (Isa 65:17) for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. (Isa 66:22) And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, new Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from the Mighty One, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
 

Zmouth

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Nov 21, 2012
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i responded to you.
see post #774.
Actually you didn't if your example was the the following?
the seed of the Woman ((Genesis 3:15)). we all know that it isn't the woman who has seed, but the man.
The term 'seed' isn't a reference to the reproductive gametes of the male or the female, which is quite humorous but I doubt the sons of men would find the humor in it.

In the following scripture written in Genesis 26:4 , you don't honestly believe that that the LORD was referring unto the reproductive gametes of Abraham when he was speaking of his seed do you?

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

However, the term 'seed' does refer unto the offspring as evident in Genesis 21:13 wherein it is written;

And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

Yet the fire of Molech clarifies that the term 'seed' includes the offspring, without regard to whether it is the son or the daughter.

And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Lev 18:21

What I was referring unto a contradictions would be the scripture which tells us that man days in the flesh upon earth are numbered to no more than 120 years as written in Genesis 6:3, however the scriptures of Genesis 5 and Ecclesiasticus 6:6 represents that man has lived up to a thousand years. Now that's a contradiction which I was referring unto.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Righteousness comes by doing that which is good and right in the sight of the LORD, and without faith it is impossible to please him.
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
Hebrews 4 tells us that Christ is our Shabbat.
No it doesn't.
Here follow a long please.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest (from the Greek Katapausis; literally means a ceasing down, And I put forth to you today that this ceasing down is the Gospel. Our sins being purged Heb 1:3; a new inner man. Our Conscientiousness purged; the law in our hearts and minds being written. Through which the faithful and true High Priest succors (helps) us in our time of need Heb 2:17,18; that still small voice; The Law of GOD HIS Christ in our hearts and mouths. The coving shelter to which he has provided. ), Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering THIS rest (the Gospel) any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the GOSPEL (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached (the Gospel) did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Use the Faith; the Word; the Law; which is through His Christ in your heart and mouth! This the Faith in which we Preach. This is the Gift of the GOSPEL Rom 10:6-8.

LORD we believe HELP our unbelief. AMEN! For we which have believed do enter into rest; THE GOSPEL!



For we which have believed do enter into rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel), as HE (GOD) said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (GOD’S rest; the Gospel has been available since the creation of the world) For HE spake in a certain place (Mt. Sinai in the giving of the Commandments) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this again (AGAIN HE SPEAKS), IF they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel).



A few things need being mention in from these verses. For one The REST mentioned is referring to the GOSPEL. This brought to light in verse TWO, "For unto us was the GOSPEL (referring to the rest mentioned in verse 1 Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) preached, as well as unto them. Secondly The giving (speaking) of The Seventh Day and GOD resting on it. And the Seventh Day being brought up;commanded again (HE speaks) IF they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel). And incidentally Two separate things are being mentioned in verses 4 and 5. The Rest in which is the GOSPEL and the forth Commandment; Seventh Day which is the Sabbath. Please listen again carefully, And in this again (IN THIS AGAIN HE SPEAKS; a repeating), IF (if; conditional) they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel). If we enter into the the Rest; the Gospel GOD speaks again as HE did on sinia in the giving of the forth commandment.

Also to emphasize the point verse four is rather specific with it's use of definite articles in the Greek.

Here listen to a more direct translation.



Heb 4:4 ....And rested the GOD in the day; the seventh from all the works of HIM.



It is IN THE day; THE seventh in which HE spoke about on Mt Sinia. This a direct reference to the Seventh Day of Creation not a perpetual rest to which is commonly taught in respect to Heb 4. So And IN THAT day; THE Seventh HE rested from all HIS works.



Couple that with the fact Heb 4:5 says And in this again (HE SPEAKS), If they shall enter into my rest. We have repeating of the forth commandment



Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (Katapausis; the ceasing down, the Gospel) , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in ( to the Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) because of unbelief (Stiff necked hard hearted disobedience): Again, he limiteth a certain day (a period to repent), saying in David, To day, (a call to repentance right now; to accept the rest, the Katapausis; the ceasing down, the Gospel) after so long a time; as it is said, To day (right now) if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest (Settling down; the Gospel), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbatismos; A Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. (is being said in relation to verses 3-5 not 7 and 8. Verses 7 and 8 are a scriptural reference being used for a call to repentance. Verses 9 and 10 pick up from verses 3-5 to hold the context of the Seventh Day being spoken of)) For he (you and I; us) that is entered into his rest (the Katapausis; the ceasing down, the Gospel) , he (you and I; us) also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.



Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest (the Katapausis; the ceasing down, the Gospel) , lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.



Two separate rests being spoken of in Hebrews 4. The Gospel rest and the Seventh Day Sabbath. A distinction is being made between the two in verses 9 and 10. A rest (Sabbath keeping) that remains and a rest (the Gospel) that has been entered. The ceasing from their own works as GOD did from HIS (a Sabbath keeping) is something that is being done in addition to entering into the Rest (Gospel). Not the Same thing, a result of or because.



There remaineth therefore a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour (be diligent) therefore to enter into that rest (the Gospel), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (hard heart; stiff necked disobedience). For the word of God is quick (living and LIFE GIVING), and powerful (actively effective), and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner (that still small voice)of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

(Heb 4:9-12 KJV)



As GOD did from HIS in verse ten is a DIRECT COMPARISON. He that has entered into his rest; the Gospel. Ceases from his own work like GOD did from HIS. GOD IS RIGHTEOUSNESS HE DID NOT CEASE FROM TRYING TO WORK OUT HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS AND REST IN CHRIST AS WE DO. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also as GOD did because of our entering into our rest in Christ.
 

lightbearer

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....We need to study to find out that we don't work at the law in our own carnal understanding because that way is futile.

What we do instead is Grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

How is it that you don't understand what this is saying???

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Galatiand 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 3:24-26
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.....
WE can't jump around through out Scripture pulling verses out of context to prove or disprove a point. Galatians is letter that needs to be understood in it's entirety. We may find ourselves using other verses of the New Testament to emphasize a point that we think or is revealed in a given letter or verse. But regardless of the point it needs to be understood that the given thought pertaining to a verse should stand within the context and premise of the given verse and or Letter.
 

posthuman

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Actually you didn't if your example was the the following?
yeah, i did. you asked me to give an example of a 'difficult' thing in the Bible that's made clear when Christ is seen in it. Grandpa posted before i ever got a chance to reply, and his post actually answers your request of me.
then i replied and gave you another one, so you have more than you asked for.


What I was referring unto a contradictions would be the scripture which tells us that man days in the flesh upon earth are numbered to no more than 120 years as written in Genesis 6:3, however the scriptures of Genesis 5 and Ecclesiasticus 6:6 represents that man has lived up to a thousand years. Now that's a contradiction which I was referring unto.
Genesis 5 comes before Genesis 6.

((non-canonical)) Ecclesiasticus/Sirach 6:6 says "Be in peace with many: nevertheless have but one counsellor of a thousand."
-- that ain't talking about living a thousand years, dude. it's saying though you are friendly with a thousand people, take advice from far fewer, even only one.
 

posthuman

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The REST mentioned is referring to the GOSPEL.
if you believe this why would you say it is not Jesus?

is Jesus Christ not the GOSPEL ?

is a ritualistic weekly observance 'the gospel' ?

in Hebrews don't we also read of how sacrifices were made week after week but were never able to make anyone clean -- made obvious because guess what, next week you have to repeat the same ritual? the sacrifice therefore was ineffectual.
so what does it tell you about whether you're actually receiving rest for your soul if you have to keep repeating the ceremony every week?
 

lightbearer

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if you believe this why would you say it is not Jesus?

is Jesus Christ not the GOSPEL ?

?
The post to which you responded to was in response to
Hebrews 4 tells us that Christ is our Shabbat.
Jesus is not our Sabbath. He is the Gospel Rest to which we enter.

It is not said in the post you responded to, that Jesus is not our rest; the GOSPEL to which we enter. Please read the study. Two things being mentioned. The Rest which is the Gospel and the ceasing form our works as GOD did. They are separate. Because we enter into the Gospel; Jesus there remaineth a Sabbath keeping. For they that have entered into Jesus the Gospel have ceased from their own works a s GOD did from HIS.

AS GOD DID. IN OTHER WORDS JUST LIKE.

And How did GOD? Verse four tells us through it's use of the direct article "the".

Heb 4:4 ....And rested the GOD in the day; the seventh from all the works of HIM.



It is IN THE day; THE seventh in which HE spoke about on Mt Sinia. This a direct reference to the Seventh Day of Creation not a perpetual rest to which is commonly taught in respect to Heb 4. So And IN THAT day; THE Seventh HE rested from all HIS works.
 

posthuman

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The post to which you responded to was in response to
Jesus is not our Sabbath. He is the Gospel Rest to which we enter.

It is not said in the post you responded to, that Jesus is not our rest; the GOSPEL to which we enter. Please read the study. Two things being mentioned. The Rest which is the Gospel and the ceasing form our works as GOD did. They are separate. Because we enter into the Gospel; Jesus there remaineth a Sabbath keeping. For they that have entered into Jesus the Gospel have ceased from their own works a s GOD did from HIS.

AS GOD DID. IN OTHER WORDS JUST LIKE.

And How did GOD? Verse four tells us through it's use of the direct article "the".

Heb 4:4 ....And rested the GOD in the day; the seventh from all the works of HIM.



It is IN THE day; THE seventh in which HE spoke about on Mt Sinia. This a direct reference to the Seventh Day of Creation not a perpetual rest to which is commonly taught in respect to Heb 4. So And IN THAT day; THE Seventh HE rested from all HIS works.
on the day, Jesus says: My Father is always working, and I too am working

you said, "rest (from the Greek Katapausis; literally means a ceasing down .."

does it mean "
ceasing" or does it mean "ritual weekly ceremony of shabbat-observance as the Jews were commanded" -- is the shadow the reality or is it not?

do we have the shadow or do we have the reality?
is the gospel ceremony or reality?


"what matters is a new creation"
 

lightbearer

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No it doesn't.
Here follow a long please.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest (from the Greek Katapausis; literally means a ceasing down, And I put forth to you today that this ceasing down is the Gospel. Our sins being purged Heb 1:3; a new inner man. Our Conscientiousness purged; the law in our hearts and minds being written. Through which the faithful and true High Priest succors (helps) us in our time of need Heb 2:17,18; that still small voice; The Law of GOD HIS Christ in our hearts and mouths. The coving shelter to which he has provided. ), Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering THIS rest (the Gospel) any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the GOSPEL (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached (the Gospel) did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Use the Faith; the Word; the Law; which is through His Christ in your heart and mouth! This the Faith in which we Preach. This is the Gift of the GOSPEL Rom 10:6-8.

LORD we believe HELP our unbelief. AMEN! For we which have believed do enter into rest; THE GOSPEL!



For we which have believed do enter into rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel), as HE (GOD) said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (GOD’S rest; the Gospel has been available since the creation of the world) For HE spake in a certain place (Mt. Sinai in the giving of the Commandments) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this again (AGAIN HE SPEAKS), IF they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel).



A few things need being mention in from these verses. For one The REST mentioned is referring to the GOSPEL. This brought to light in verse TWO, "For unto us was the GOSPEL (referring to the rest mentioned in verse 1 Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) preached, as well as unto them. Secondly The giving (speaking) of The Seventh Day and GOD resting on it. And the Seventh Day being brought up;commanded again (HE speaks) IF they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel). And incidentally Two separate things are being mentioned in verses 4 and 5. The Rest in which is the GOSPEL and the forth Commandment; Seventh Day which is the Sabbath. Please listen again carefully, And in this again (IN THIS AGAIN HE SPEAKS; a repeating), IF (if; conditional) they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel). If we enter into the the Rest; the Gospel GOD speaks again as HE did on sinia in the giving of the forth commandment.

Also to emphasize the point verse four is rather specific with it's use of definite articles in the Greek.

Here listen to a more direct translation.



Heb 4:4 ....And rested the GOD in the day; the seventh from all the works of HIM.



It is IN THE day; THE seventh in which HE spoke about on Mt Sinia. This a direct reference to the Seventh Day of Creation not a perpetual rest to which is commonly taught in respect to Heb 4. So And IN THAT day; THE Seventh HE rested from all HIS works.



Couple that with the fact Heb 4:5 says And in this again (HE SPEAKS), If they shall enter into my rest. We have repeating of the forth commandment



Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (Katapausis; the ceasing down, the Gospel) , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in ( to the Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel) because of unbelief (Stiff necked hard hearted disobedience): Again, he limiteth a certain day (a period to repent), saying in David, To day, (a call to repentance right now; to accept the rest, the Katapausis; the ceasing down, the Gospel) after so long a time; as it is said, To day (right now) if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest (Settling down; the Gospel), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbatismos; A Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. (is being said in relation to verses 3-5 not 7 and 8. Verses 7 and 8 are a scriptural reference being used for a call to repentance. Verses 9 and 10 pick up from verses 3-5 to hold the context of the Seventh Day being spoken of)) For he (you and I; us) that is entered into his rest (the Katapausis; the ceasing down, the Gospel) , he (you and I; us) also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.



Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest (the Katapausis; the ceasing down, the Gospel) , lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.



Two separate rests being spoken of in Hebrews 4. The Gospel rest and the Seventh Day Sabbath. A distinction is being made between the two in verses 9 and 10. A rest (Sabbath keeping) that remains and a rest (the Gospel) that has been entered. The ceasing from their own works as GOD did from HIS (a Sabbath keeping) is something that is being done in addition to entering into the Rest (Gospel). Not the Same thing, a result of or because.



There remaineth therefore a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour (be diligent) therefore to enter into that rest (the Gospel), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (hard heart; stiff necked disobedience). For the word of God is quick (living and LIFE GIVING), and powerful (actively effective), and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner (that still small voice)of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

(Heb 4:9-12 KJV)



As GOD did from HIS in verse ten is a DIRECT COMPARISON. He that has entered into his rest; the Gospel. Ceases from his own work like GOD did from HIS. GOD IS RIGHTEOUSNESS HE DID NOT CEASE FROM TRYING TO WORK OUT HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS AND REST IN CHRIST AS WE DO. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also as GOD did because of our entering into our rest in Christ.
on the day, Jesus says: My Father is always working, and I too am working

you said, "rest (from the Greek Katapausis; literally means a ceasing down .."

does it mean "ceasing" or does it mean "ritual weekly ceremony of shabbat-observance as the Jews were commanded" -- is the shadow the reality or is it not?

do we have the shadow or do we have the reality?
is the gospel ceremony or reality?


"what matters is a new creation"
You are not reading the posts to which you are responding.

New Creation in Christ Jesus; His Word; the Law in our hearts, mouths and minds. Christ in us, the Hope of Glory. Behold all things are new and of God. No longer of an Evil heart of unbelief that departs from the living GOD Heb 3. The Word; the Law in our hearts through Christ's indwelling; that is the Faith in which we preach that does away with the Evil heart of unbelief (obstinate stiff necked rebellion). It is no longer a question of obeying GOD through the Tables of Stone and that which was on parchment but through the fleshly tables of the heart. A NEW MINISTRATION: Not I but Christ. The Life we now live in the flesh we live by the Faith of the Son of GOD. Not that our sufficiency is of ourselves but our sufficiency is of GOD. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure, through HIS imparted Word; Law in our hearts and minds. This the Faith in which we speak. Christ (the word; the Law in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the (written) Law for righteousness to all that believe. Because that which GOD would had us do and be through that ministration is now who we are through Christ. We don't do the things of GOD because we have to but because of who we are now in Christ Jesus That is the Rest; the Gospel that we have entered into and because we have, we also cease from our own works like GOD did from HIS Heb 4:10. GOD ceased from physical LABOR on the DAY, the SEVENTH.

As GOD did from HIS in verse ten is a DIRECT COMPARISON. He that has entered into his rest; the Gospel. Ceases from his own work JUST LIKE GOD did from HIS. GOD IS RIGHTEOUSNESS HE DID NOT CEASE FROM TRYING TO WORK OUT HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS AND REST IN CHRIST AS WE DO. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also as GOD did because of our entering into our rest in Christ.
 

Zmouth

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Genesis 5 comes before Genesis 6.
Like I said, it is lost on the sons of men as written in Matt 13:15

((non-canonical)) Ecclesiasticus/Sirach 6:6 says "Be in peace with many: nevertheless have but one counsellor of a thousand."
-- that ain't talking about living a thousand years, dude. it's saying though you are friendly with a thousand people, take advice from far fewer, even only one.
Yet in your Bible, in Proverbs 11:14 it is written that "...safety lies in many advisers." Go figure....

So you are a Catholic? Not that there is anything wrong with that. But it does explain a lot like your bio where you say you were saved before you opened the matrix. That is because you are eternal right?

But as far as the testimony of the son of David written in Ecc. 6:6 regarding living a thousand years, see Rev 20:6
, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Or as written in Rev 20:4, "....and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Yet in the KJV, it is written in Proverbs 11:14, "... but in the multitude of counselors there is safety."

Here are just a few of the translations of Ecc. 6:6

KJ21
yea, though he live a thousand years twicetold, yet he hath seen no good. Do not all go to one place?
ASV
yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, and yet enjoy no good, do not all go to one place?
AMP
Even if the other man lives a thousand years twice over and yet has seen no good and experienced no enjoyment—do not both go to one place [the grave]?”
AMPC
Even though he lives a thousand years twice over and yet has seen no good and experienced no enjoyment—do not all go to one place [the place of the dead]?
BRG
¶ Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?
CSB
And if a person lives a thousand years twice, but does not experience happiness, do not both go to the same place?
CEB
who live a thousand years twice over but don’t enjoy life’s good things. Isn’t everyone heading to the same destination?
CJB
without enjoying himself, even if he were to live a thousand years twice over. Doesn’t everyone go to the same place?
CEV
even if you live two thousand years and don’t enjoy life. As you know, we all end up in the same place.
DARBY
Yea, though he live twice a thousand years, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?
DRA
Although he lived two thousand years, and hath not enjoyed good things: do not all make haste to one place?
ERV
He might live 2000 years. But if he does not enjoy life, then the baby who was born dead has found the easiest way to the same end.
ESV
Even though he should live a thousand years twice over, yet enjoy no good—do not all go to the one place?
ESVUK
Even though he should live a thousand years twice over, yet enjoy no good—do not all go to the one place?
EXB
Even if he lives ·two thousand years [L a thousand years two times over], he doesn’t ·enjoy the good God gives him [L experience good times]. ·Everyone is going [L Do not all go…?] to the same place [C the grave].
GNV
And if he had lived a thousand years twice told, and had seen no good, shall not all go to one place?
GW
Even if the rich person lives two thousand years without experiencing anything good—don’t we all go to the same place?
GNT
more so than the man who never enjoys life, though he may live two thousand years. After all, both of them are going to the same place.
HCSB
And if he lives a thousand years twice, but does not experience happiness, do not both go to the same place?
ICB
Even if he lives 2,000 years, it is sad if a person can’t enjoy the good things God gives him. After all, both he and the baby born dead go to the same place—the grave.
ISV
Even if he lives a thousand years twice over without experiencing the best—aren’t all of them going to the same place?
JUB
For though the other should live a thousand years twice and has not enjoyed good; both shall surely go to the same place.
KJV
Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?
AKJV
Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?
LEB
Even if a man lives a thousand years twice, if he does not enjoy prosperity, both suffer the same fate!
TLB
Though a man lives a thousand years twice over but doesn’t find contentment—well, what’s the use?
MSG
Even if someone lived a thousand years—make it two thousand!—but didn’t enjoy anything, what’s the point? Doesn’t everyone end up in the same place?
MEV
Though the man may live a thousand years, twice over, yet he does not see the good things. Does not everyone go to the same place?
NOG
Even if the rich person lives two thousand years without experiencing anything good—don’t we all go to the same place?
NABRE
Should such a one live twice a thousand years and not enjoy those goods, do not both go to the same place?
NASB
Even if the other man lives a thousand years twice and does not enjoy good things—do not all go to one place?”
NCV
Even if he lives two thousand years, he doesn’t enjoy the good God gives him. Everyone is going to the same place.
NET
if he should live a thousand years twice, yet does not enjoy his prosperity. For both of them die!
NIRV
And that’s true even if he lives for 2,000 years but doesn’t get to enjoy his wealth. All people die and go to the grave, don’t they?
NIV
even if he lives a thousand years twice over but fails to enjoy his prosperity. Do not all go to the same place?
NIVUK
even if he lives a thousand years twice over but fails to enjoy his prosperity. Do not all go to the same place?
NKJV
even if he lives a thousand years twice—but has not seen goodness. Do not all go to one place?
NLV
Even if the other man lives a thousand years twice and does not find joy in good things, do not all go to the same place?
N
 

posthuman

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You are not reading the posts to which you are responding.
yes, i am.

you said:


(Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel)
over and over and over. that "His rest" is the gospel. then you say,

Jesus is not our Sabbath.
but you don't seem to be thinking when i ask you, do we have a shadow or do we have the substance?

Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands,
let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
(Hebrews 4:1)

how does a person seem to fail to reach His rest?

maybe by going back to a shadow, once the reality has appeared?

what would be the case if we speak of sacrifices -- we know Christ has become our atoning sacrifice: what would we be saying if we then command the sprinkling of blood on an earthly altar? wouldn't we be seeming to fail to attain the substance? and if we know that the true lamb that takes away sins has been offered, and insist that another lamb be slain, how much more would we be falling short of receiving what was given?


He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
So the word of the LORD to them will be,
“Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.
(Isaiah 28:12-13)
it is like you are saying, here, we have received the true rest: therefore we must keep the shadow, as though we have not received it. if the understanding is, 'what the blood of bulls could never accomplish has been accomplished by a better sacrifice' then why is the conclusion 'therefore there remains the sacrifice of bulls for us' ???
that makes no sense. in fact, because a better, an effective sacrifice has been made and received, we no longer offer any other, because the Eternal One remains.


Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands,
let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
(Hebrews 4:1)

let's not act as though we have failed to reach it. how do we do that? by imposing the shadow by written command, as though we have not known the substance? if the sabbaths given in the wilderness had given rest, then the LORD would not have spoken of another day, called '
today' -- it is clear then that the reality is not the thing that is unable to actually give effective rest.

Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
(Galatians 3:1)

 

posthuman

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lol he 'dislikes' having his discontinuity pointed out

OK w/e