Sabbath

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Well He has not returned a second time as Psalm 2 says...

Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.

He went farther in Mat 5, He said heaven and earth have to pass and ALL be done...

Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”

or there is an alternate reading of this passage:

Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think..."
As I have said, I agree that Jesus has not yet fulfilled all prophecies regarding him.

He did not come to fulfill all prophecies, rather to fulfill the law and the prophets.

He also said in that same context that the law and the prophets is to treat others as you'd like to be treated. Now, consider for example the law about leverate marriage. If you were a woman whose husband had died, would you like to be forced to marry your brother-in-law?
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,137
493
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Shabbat Shalom brothers and sisters!

Hosea 10:12 Sow righteousness for yourselves, reap unfailing love. Break up the unplowed ground for yourselves, for it is time to seek the LORD, until he comes and showers deliverance on you.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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Shabbat Shalom brothers and sisters!

Hosea 10:12 Sow righteousness for yourselves, reap unfailing love. Break up the unplowed ground for yourselves, for it is time to seek the LORD, until he comes and showers deliverance on you.
IS. 56:
1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, (Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Rom. 11:
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches (Jews) be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, (Gentiles) wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Ps. 95:
7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Heb. 4:
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus (Lord of the Sabbath) had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Great scripture Karraster, It is truly time to seek the Lord of the Bible. Today, if you hear His voice, harden not your heart.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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what's the meaning of the sabbath day, what does it represent?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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what's the meaning of the sabbath day, what does it represent?
Well for the religious masses it seems they have been convinced it means nothing. Just another burdensome commandment of God given to a certain DNA to prove that man is incapable of following even simple instructions, if they come from God.

Oh they can spend trillions and take off work and hold holy man made religious High days. But if the Commandment comes from the God of the Bible, it can't possibly be followed, and anyone who honors it is a legalist and reprobate trying to earn salvation by their works.. This is what "many" who come in Christ's name preach.

But if We ask this same God "What is the purpose of His holy, Sanctified Sabbath" here is what He says.

Ex. 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.

28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

According to the God of the Bible, His Holy Sabbath is a test Commandment placed by God to see if folks Love Him enough to follow His simplest, easiest to understand instruction. Those who rejected His Word where His Holy Sabbath is concerned was guilty of refusing to follow All of God's Commandments.

Those who respected Him and His instructions over the religious traditions of the Land were blessed.

Paul said these Word's were written for our admonition so we wouldn't lust after the same "unbelief" they also lusted after. "Many" who come in Christ's name today, also refuse to Honor Him in this Commandment. refusing to "believe" Him where it is concerned, just as the Mainstream Preachers of His time did. They also pollute His Sabbath, and defile it.

Jesus said to the World, "The Sabbath is made for man", but "many" still don't believe Him.

"There is no new thing under the sun."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,841
8,470
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Well for the religious masses it seems they have been convinced it means nothing. Just another burdensome commandment of God given to a certain DNA to prove that man is incapable of following even simple instructions, if they come from God.

Oh they can spend trillions and take off work and hold holy man made religious High days. But if the Commandment comes from the God of the Bible, it can't possibly be followed, and anyone who honors it is a legalist and reprobate trying to earn salvation by their works.. This is what "many" who come in Christ's name preach.

But if We ask this same God "What is the purpose of His holy, Sanctified Sabbath" here is what He says.

Ex. 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.

28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

According to the God of the Bible, His Holy Sabbath is a test Commandment placed by God to see if folks Love Him enough to follow His simplest, easiest to understand instruction. Those who rejected His Word where His Holy Sabbath is concerned was guilty of refusing to follow All of God's Commandments.

Those who respected Him and His instructions over the religious traditions of the Land were blessed.

Paul said these Word's were written for our admonition so we wouldn't lust after the same "unbelief" they also lusted after. "Many" who come in Christ's name today, also refuse to Honor Him in this Commandment. refusing to "believe" Him where it is concerned, just as the Mainstream Preachers of His time did. They also pollute His Sabbath, and defile it.

Jesus said to the World, "The Sabbath is made for man", but "many" still don't believe Him.

"There is no new thing under the sun."
just a test, that's it?
a random test?
like a captcha to prove you're not a bot with an algorithm for filling out forms?

what's the meaning of the sabbath?
what does it represent?

what do you meditate on every week on this day, besides whether you are passing your exams?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,841
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what do you meditate on every week on this day, besides whether you are passing your exams?
surely after decades of diligently observing the day a person gains some insight about what it is they are meant to be learning from this, beyond 'do it it's the rule' -- and beyond 'it's good to take a break' or 'hope i pass the entrance exam'

what do y'all think about what it is y'all are doing not doing today?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,038
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surely after decades of diligently observing the day a person gains some insight about what it is they are meant to be learning from this, beyond 'do it it's the rule' -- and beyond 'it's good to take a break' or 'hope i pass the entrance exam'

what do y'all think about what it is y'all are doing not doing today?
An interesting situation arises if one views the Sabbath as a kind of entrance exam.

It would follow, I think, that one would need to keep the Sabbath in order to be saved.

I suppose some will say that salvation is obtained by faith in Jesus. But once you know about the Sabbath, if you do not keep it you will lose your salvation, you cannot be saved.

So salvation is obtained by faith, and maintained by our actions, so the thinking would go.

We begin in the spirit, but are completed in the flesh. We would start out with Grace, and finish with works.

I believe that the above is the Practical theology of many people who endorse Sabbath keeping on this forum, though they may not say it or even realize it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,841
8,470
113
An interesting situation arises if one views the Sabbath as a kind of entrance exam.

It would follow, I think, that one would need to keep the Sabbath in order to be saved.

I suppose some will say that salvation is obtained by faith in Jesus. But once you know about the Sabbath, if you do not keep it you will lose your salvation, you cannot be saved.

So salvation is obtained by faith, and maintained by our actions, so the thinking would go.

We begin in the spirit, but are completed in the flesh. We would start out with Grace, and finish with works.

I believe that the above is the Practical theology of many people who endorse Sabbath keeping on this forum, though they may not say it or even realize it.
i'm still waiting for a sabbath discussion that says 'this is what we learn from it'

seems all that's ever said is variations of '
you must do this'
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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i'm still waiting for a sabbath discussion that says 'this is what we learn from it'

seems all that's ever said is variations of 'you must do this'

I and others have shown you where the Word which became Flesh has instructed His People, Jews and Gentiles alike, to honor His Commandments, including His Sabbaths.

You don't believe this. So that is fine. But your argument is not with me, but with the Word of God.

You will be waiting a long time to learn the reason why God created His Sabbath for you. Men have been trying to create another way, or find another way into the Kingdom ever since the serpent convinced them they were already saved, already immortal and that God's Laws were against them. You want to know the reason for the instructions without actually having to submit to the instructions. The Christ explains why.

Jn. 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God

What happens is that we are convinced by preachers that we are already immortal, that "we shall surely not die". Which really means we believe we are already gods. In this way we have been convinced, as was Eve, that we have to power to judge God's instructions as unworthy of our respect. Of course we wont let the Light of God shine in our mind to expose this, we hide our self from it.

For this reason men believe they must first know the reason to obey God, before they obey God, to make sure it is OK with their god "their mind".

But you won't know until you have Faith in the God of the Bible as Paul did. The faith of Abraham, who was told by God to leave the religions of the land and his family without knowing the reason why. And He did it, not because He reasoned in his own mind whether or not he should obey, but because he understood how pathetic, wicked, and ultimately deceitful natural man is. Knowing this truth, he submitted to a power he believed and had Faith was greater than him.

It's hard to have Faith in a God who you have been convinced is unjust and whose Instructions are against you. A God so bad that His Son had to come and save you from Him, and, as you preach, "Remove" His instructions.

The Christ opened the same Bible the mainstream preachers of His time claimed to live by and showed them point blank where they were serving the god of this world, not the God of Abraham. These preachers didn't believe Him either. And if you don't believe in Him, then it is my understanding there is no Salvation. And what did He say about the Law and Prophets?

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead

It's not about Sabbaths and Laws, it's about Faith and Love towards the God of Abraham, through His Son the Risen Christ, who died so we could live to "serve" anew. Not serve our own religious mind, but the Word of God which became Flesh.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
An interesting situation arises if one views the Sabbath as a kind of entrance exam.

It would follow, I think, that one would need to keep the Sabbath in order to be saved.

I suppose some will say that salvation is obtained by faith in Jesus. But once you know about the Sabbath, if you do not keep it you will lose your salvation, you cannot be saved.

So salvation is obtained by faith, and maintained by our actions, so the thinking would go.

We begin in the spirit, but are completed in the flesh. We would start out with Grace, and finish with works.

I believe that the above is the Practical theology of many people who endorse Sabbath keeping on this forum, though they may not say it or even realize it.
There are some who believe in "Every Word" which proceeds from the Word which became Flesh and dwelt among us. We understand how the religions of the land will ridicule and mock this believe as this has always been the case according to the Bible. We believe there is only one God, the Lord of the Sabbath, and that this God said we can delight in Him in this way.

Is. 58:
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

There is a huge path followed by "many" who believe they have found another way to do the will of God, another way to delight in the Lord.

Maybe they have found another path. But I'm sticking with the Lord of the Sabbath on this one.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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516
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because you have no idea?
you only know it's a rule, but in your mind it's otherwise meaningless?
You shouldn't project your religious views onto others PH. You are perfectly free to preach God created "meaningless" commandments if you have been convinced He has... But I don't hold your views regarding Him. Neither did Paul, or the Christ, or Peter.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,841
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You shouldn't project your religious views onto others PH. You are perfectly free to preach God created "meaningless" commandments if you have been convinced He has... But I don't hold your views regarding Him. Neither did Paul, or the Christ, or Peter.
i asked if anyone knows the meaning of the sabbath, what it represents.
the only thing you talk about is how much you hate things you hate, and you have no wisdom you've shared regarding the sign apart from 'do it because you have to do it'

so tho you lie, i am not projecting any imaginary religion you see in your head on anything.

i asked if you've learned anything, and you either haven't, or you refuse to edify. it's clear.

you don't even know whether i keep sabbath in the flesh or not, because i don't boast of it one way or the other. all you know is that i obey the scripture that says don't let anyone judge you over it, and you hate me and lie about me because of my obedience to the Word.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,699
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post, the problem with needs to studyman is this- he thinks he knows everything about the Bible, his beliefs are 100% accurate , and gets offended that others contradict his views.

I have a cousin who is very similar. we can't talk about Scripture for 5 minutes without getting into a dis-agreement .

studyman has stated himself that " he has no need for anyone to teach him ". my cousin quotes that very same verse.

it is code for " I know everything , so do not question me ".
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,841
8,470
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post, the problem with needs to studyman is this- he thinks he knows everything about the Bible, his beliefs are 100% accurate , and gets offended that others contradict his views.

I have a cousin who is very similar. we can't talk about Scripture for 5 minutes without getting into a dis-agreement .

studyman has stated himself that " he has no need for anyone to teach him ". my cousin quotes that very same verse.

it is code for " I know everything , so do not question me ".
and when he has no answer for something he just talks about something else, pretending it is what was asked?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,841
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I and others have shown you where the Word which became Flesh has instructed His People, Jews and Gentiles alike, to honor His Commandments, including His Sabbaths.
why don't you care to keep the 9th commandment?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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516
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i asked if anyone knows the meaning of the sabbath, what it represents.
the only thing you talk about is how much you hate things you hate, and you have no wisdom you've shared regarding the sign apart from 'do it because you have to do it'

so tho you lie, i am not projecting any imaginary religion you see in your head on anything.

i asked if you've learned anything, and you either haven't, or you refuse to edify. it's clear.

you don't even know whether i keep sabbath in the flesh or not, because i don't boast of it one way or the other. all you know is that i obey the scripture that says don't let anyone judge you over it, and you hate me and lie about me because of my obedience to the Word.
"the only thing you talk about is how much you hate things you hate,"

"and you have no wisdom you've shared regarding the sign apart from 'do it because you have to do it'"

"and you hate me and lie about me because of my obedience to the Word."

Once again, you deflect by projecting your thoughts and habits on others. You once asked if I was blind or deaf. I think you were projecting then as well. Here is what I posted just in case you actually want to read before judging it as hate.

"I and others have shown you where the Word which became Flesh has instructed His People, Jews and Gentiles alike, to honor His Commandments, including His Sabbaths.

You don't believe this. So that is fine. But your argument is not with me, but with the Word of God.

You will be waiting a long time to learn the reason why God created His Sabbath for you. Men have been trying to create another way, or find another way into the Kingdom ever since the serpent convinced them they were already saved, already immortal and that God's Laws were against them. You want to know the reason for the instructions without actually having to submit to the instructions. The Christ explains why.

Jn. 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God

What happens is that we are convinced by preachers that we are already immortal, that "we shall surely not die". Which really means we believe we are already gods. In this way we have been convinced, as was Eve, that we have the power to judge God's instructions as unworthy of our respect. Of course we wont let the Light of God shine in our mind to expose this, we hide our self from it.

For this reason men believe they must first know the reason to obey God, before they obey God, to make sure it is OK with their god "their mind".

But you won't know until you have Faith in the God of the Bible as Paul did. The faith of Abraham, who was told by God to leave the religions of the land and his family without knowing the reason why. And He did it, not because He reasoned in his own mind whether or not he should obey, but because he understood how pathetic, wicked, and ultimately deceitful natural man is. Knowing this truth, he submitted to a power he believed and had Faith was greater than him.

It's hard to have Faith in a God who you have been convinced is unjust and whose Instructions are against you. A God so bad that His Son had to come and save you from Him, and, as you preach, "Remove" His instructions.

The Christ opened the same Bible the mainstream preachers of His time claimed to live by and showed them point blank where they were serving the god of this world, not the God of Abraham. These preachers didn't believe Him either. And if you don't believe in Him, then it is my understanding there is no Salvation. And what did He say about the Law and Prophets?

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead

It's not about Sabbaths and Laws, it's about Faith and Love towards the God of Abraham, through His Son the Risen Christ, who died so we could live to "serve" anew. Not serve our own religious mind, but the Word of God which became Flesh."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,841
8,470
113
"the only thing you talk about is how much you hate things you hate,"

"and you have no wisdom you've shared regarding the sign apart from 'do it because you have to do it'"

"and you hate me and lie about me because of my obedience to the Word."

Once again, you deflect by projecting your thoughts and habits on others. You once asked if I was blind or deaf. I think you were projecting then as well. Here is what I posted just in case you actually want to read before judging it as hate.

"I and others have shown you where the Word which became Flesh has instructed His People, Jews and Gentiles alike, to honor His Commandments, including His Sabbaths.

You don't believe this. So that is fine. But your argument is not with me, but with the Word of God.

You will be waiting a long time to learn the reason why God created His Sabbath for you. Men have been trying to create another way, or find another way into the Kingdom ever since the serpent convinced them they were already saved, already immortal and that God's Laws were against them. You want to know the reason for the instructions without actually having to submit to the instructions. The Christ explains why.

Jn. 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God

What happens is that we are convinced by preachers that we are already immortal, that "we shall surely not die". Which really means we believe we are already gods. In this way we have been convinced, as was Eve, that we have the power to judge God's instructions as unworthy of our respect. Of course we wont let the Light of God shine in our mind to expose this, we hide our self from it.

For this reason men believe they must first know the reason to obey God, before they obey God, to make sure it is OK with their god "their mind".

But you won't know until you have Faith in the God of the Bible as Paul did. The faith of Abraham, who was told by God to leave the religions of the land and his family without knowing the reason why. And He did it, not because He reasoned in his own mind whether or not he should obey, but because he understood how pathetic, wicked, and ultimately deceitful natural man is. Knowing this truth, he submitted to a power he believed and had Faith was greater than him.

It's hard to have Faith in a God who you have been convinced is unjust and whose Instructions are against you. A God so bad that His Son had to come and save you from Him, and, as you preach, "Remove" His instructions.

The Christ opened the same Bible the mainstream preachers of His time claimed to live by and showed them point blank where they were serving the god of this world, not the God of Abraham. These preachers didn't believe Him either. And if you don't believe in Him, then it is my understanding there is no Salvation. And what did He say about the Law and Prophets?

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead

It's not about Sabbaths and Laws, it's about Faith and Love towards the God of Abraham, through His Son the Risen Christ, who died so we could live to "serve" anew. Not serve our own religious mind, but the Word of God which became Flesh."
suppose a person asks, 'what does water baptism mean? what does it represent?'

do you think you'd be a good teacher if all you said in reply was 'you must be baptized scripture commands it'?

would you have shown that you have understanding or knowledge if the only thing you are able say is 'baptism means you must be baptised'?

wouldn't you just be saying useless words and demonstrating ignorance? you certainly would not be answering the question.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,841
8,470
113
You are perfectly free to preach God created "meaningless" commandments if you have been convinced He has...
for the record, I asked what is the meaning of the sabbath.
that presupposes on my part that I believe there is meaning.

studydude replied without giving any meaning. so I asked him does he think its meaningless?

at which point he started in with the slander and false witness.