Sabbath
- Thread starter geaux4it
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I am sure of that. God is not as pleased with any of us as he could be. Judgment or no, we all can do better than we do.
God has expressly told us that He sanctified the seventh day and made it holy at creation. You are suggesting that He wouldn't share that fact with Adam, lucidrius.
God has expressly told us that He sanctified the seventh day and made it holy at creation. You are suggesting that He wouldn't share that fact with Adam, lucidrius.
-
2
- Show all
I am sure of that. God is not as pleased with any of us as he could be. Judgment or no, we all can do better than we do.
God has expressly told us that He sanctified the seventh day and made it holy at creation. You are suggesting that He wouldn't share that fact with Adam, lucidrius.
God has expressly told us that He sanctified the seventh day and made it holy at creation. You are suggesting that He wouldn't share that fact with Adam, lucidrius.
I disagree that it is ludicrous to say that we don't know if God shared the Sabbath with humans on that first seventh day or not. As I said, there were other things that God did not share with Adam and Eve such as his knowledge of Good and Evil.
-
1
- Show all
I have always contended that we need to get to know God better. His very character is embedded into His word. The God I know most certainly shared many things with Adam, He talked with him directly.
I don't think the tree of knowledge of good and evil is what you thinks it is. I believe that once they partook of the fruit, they took upon themselves to decide what is good and evil.
I don't think the tree of knowledge of good and evil is what you thinks it is. I believe that once they partook of the fruit, they took upon themselves to decide what is good and evil.
As I have stated before, the word "Sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.
It's often claimed by Sabbatarians that “God instituted the Sabbath in Eden” because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses. The Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments is not found in the book of Genesis.
God's Word makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17).
In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day” (Deuteronomy 5:15).
It's often claimed by Sabbatarians that “God instituted the Sabbath in Eden” because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses. The Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments is not found in the book of Genesis.
God's Word makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17).
In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day” (Deuteronomy 5:15).
That is just another way of saying just as. Look at some of the verses he cites. They are comparisons (close relations).
b. it stands in close relation to what precedes: Mat_5:48 (L T Tr WH ὡς); (L T Tr WH ὡς), (L T Tr WH ὡς); ; Act_3:17; Act_11:15; 1Co_8:5; 1Th_5:3; Heb_4:10; Heb_7:27; Heb_9:25; Rev_10:3; ὥσπερ γέγραπται, 1Co_10:7
Did GOD cease from working out HIS own Salvation or doing HIS own righteousness? No HE is our Salavation and righteousness. HE ceased from physical work on Day Seventh; the Sabbath. ANd in this again HE speaks, we cease from our own physical work as HE did. It says those who enter into their rest (the Gospel) cease from their own works as GOD id from HIS . He ceased from physical work. So we; because we are now experiencing the Gospel we also on Day Seventh cease from our own work as GOD did. We cease from Physical work through HIM.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
For HE spake in a certain place (Mt. Sinai as one of the Commandments) of the Seventh Day on this wise and GOD did rest the Seventh Day from all HIS works. AND IN THIS AGAIN HE SPEAKS, if they shall enter into my rest (the GOSPEL). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the rest to which is the GOSPEL) Those to whom it was first preached to entered not into the GOSPEL because of of unbelief (disobedience).
Verse four is being extremely specific with it's use of definite articles in the Greek.
Here listen to a more direct translation.
Heb 4:4 ....And rested the GOD in the day; the seventh from all the works of HIM.
It is IN THE day; the seventh in which HE spoke about on Mt Sinia. And in that day; the seventh HE rested from all HIS works.
Couple that with the fact Heb 4:5 says And in this again (HE SPEAKS), If they shall enter into my rest. We have repeating of the forth commandment.
Then HE quotes Psalm 95 for the second time as a call to repentance in respect of repenting and accepting the Gospel. (Heb. 3:13,14)
Verses 7 and 8 are a quote from Psalm 95 being used for a call to repentance in relation to what is being spoken in verse 6. Verses 9 and 10 pick up from verses 3-5 to hold the context of the Seventh Day being spoken of.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel), and they to whom it was first preached entered not in (the Gospel) because of unbelief (Obstinate disobedience): Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest (the Gospel by entering into the promised land; which was but a shadow), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
(Heb 4:3-8 KJV)
VERSE 5: IN THIS AGAIN (HE SPEAKS) If they shall enter into my rest. 9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbatismos; A Sabbath keeping to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel) , he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from HIS.
And GOD did rest from all HIS works in the day, the seventh, So HE (they) who entered into his rest (the Gospel) cease from their own works as GOD did from HIS. On the DAY, the SEVENTH which is the SABBATH.
b. it stands in close relation to what precedes: Mat_5:48 (L T Tr WH ὡς); (L T Tr WH ὡς), (L T Tr WH ὡς); ; Act_3:17; Act_11:15; 1Co_8:5; 1Th_5:3; Heb_4:10; Heb_7:27; Heb_9:25; Rev_10:3; ὥσπερ γέγραπται, 1Co_10:7
Did GOD cease from working out HIS own Salvation or doing HIS own righteousness? No HE is our Salavation and righteousness. HE ceased from physical work on Day Seventh; the Sabbath. ANd in this again HE speaks, we cease from our own physical work as HE did. It says those who enter into their rest (the Gospel) cease from their own works as GOD id from HIS . He ceased from physical work. So we; because we are now experiencing the Gospel we also on Day Seventh cease from our own work as GOD did. We cease from Physical work through HIM.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
For HE spake in a certain place (Mt. Sinai as one of the Commandments) of the Seventh Day on this wise and GOD did rest the Seventh Day from all HIS works. AND IN THIS AGAIN HE SPEAKS, if they shall enter into my rest (the GOSPEL). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the rest to which is the GOSPEL) Those to whom it was first preached to entered not into the GOSPEL because of of unbelief (disobedience).
Verse four is being extremely specific with it's use of definite articles in the Greek.
Here listen to a more direct translation.
Heb 4:4 ....And rested the GOD in the day; the seventh from all the works of HIM.
It is IN THE day; the seventh in which HE spoke about on Mt Sinia. And in that day; the seventh HE rested from all HIS works.
Couple that with the fact Heb 4:5 says And in this again (HE SPEAKS), If they shall enter into my rest. We have repeating of the forth commandment.
Then HE quotes Psalm 95 for the second time as a call to repentance in respect of repenting and accepting the Gospel. (Heb. 3:13,14)
Verses 7 and 8 are a quote from Psalm 95 being used for a call to repentance in relation to what is being spoken in verse 6. Verses 9 and 10 pick up from verses 3-5 to hold the context of the Seventh Day being spoken of.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel), and they to whom it was first preached entered not in (the Gospel) because of unbelief (Obstinate disobedience): Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest (the Gospel by entering into the promised land; which was but a shadow), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
(Heb 4:3-8 KJV)
VERSE 5: IN THIS AGAIN (HE SPEAKS) If they shall enter into my rest. 9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbatismos; A Sabbath keeping to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel) , he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from HIS.
And GOD did rest from all HIS works in the day, the seventh, So HE (they) who entered into his rest (the Gospel) cease from their own works as GOD did from HIS. On the DAY, the SEVENTH which is the SABBATH.
HI MMD,
As the 10 commandments were given for a few reasons, not the most important to show that we cannot keep them as I've often heard - do we have a tricky God?? - I also feel the Sabbath was given for a good reason. Why was it the sign of the Mosaic Covenant?
We can surely parallel the seventh day in Genesis and the Sabbath in Exodus with Saturday,,, Sabbath is Saturday in the latin languages. Sabbath --- rest. After almost 400 years of slavery the Israelites needed to know that they HAD to rest one day a week. They were used to working all the time and knew nothing else. All the commandments are for our own good...
However, that's not what concerns me about this discussion. Here's what concerns me and I would like your comment. Keeping the Sabbath is the 4th commandment. Are we not breaking a commandment by NOT keeping the Sabbath?
(I'm not a Sabbath observer, BTW, as some have thought on another thread).
As the 10 commandments were given for a few reasons, not the most important to show that we cannot keep them as I've often heard - do we have a tricky God?? - I also feel the Sabbath was given for a good reason. Why was it the sign of the Mosaic Covenant?
We can surely parallel the seventh day in Genesis and the Sabbath in Exodus with Saturday,,, Sabbath is Saturday in the latin languages. Sabbath --- rest. After almost 400 years of slavery the Israelites needed to know that they HAD to rest one day a week. They were used to working all the time and knew nothing else. All the commandments are for our own good...
However, that's not what concerns me about this discussion. Here's what concerns me and I would like your comment. Keeping the Sabbath is the 4th commandment. Are we not breaking a commandment by NOT keeping the Sabbath?
(I'm not a Sabbath observer, BTW, as some have thought on another thread).
None of us have perfectly "obeyed" the 10 commandments. Those who seek salvation based on the merits of obeying the 10 commandments are in for a disappointment!
2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
Now in regards to "keep" the commandments. In 1 John 2:3-4, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - watch over, guard, keep intact) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not "keep" (watch over, guard, keep intact) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
◄ 5083. téreó ►
Strong's Concordance #5083
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact. - Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
The Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and the nation of Israel. "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. (Exodus 31:12-13) *Also see Deuteronomy 5:12-14.
It's often claimed by Sabbatarians that “God instituted the Sabbath in Eden” because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law and is identifying Himself to Israel as the true and living Creator God and is separate and apart from all of the other gods of Egypt and of the Gentile world, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt.
*Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.
*The Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments is not found in the book of Genesis.
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).
If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. I was in a discussion with a SDA (who is no longer here) who told me that ALL of these regulations still apply! See post #93 from the link.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/retire-the-ten-commandments.179528/page-5
Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
A questions to ask yourself: Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament? WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT: In Mark 7:21-22 sins are listed. *Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath. In Romans 1:29-32 20 sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking. In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given, In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there's a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned.
2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
Now in regards to "keep" the commandments. In 1 John 2:3-4, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - watch over, guard, keep intact) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not "keep" (watch over, guard, keep intact) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
◄ 5083. téreó ►
Strong's Concordance #5083
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact. - Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
The Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and the nation of Israel. "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. (Exodus 31:12-13) *Also see Deuteronomy 5:12-14.
It's often claimed by Sabbatarians that “God instituted the Sabbath in Eden” because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law and is identifying Himself to Israel as the true and living Creator God and is separate and apart from all of the other gods of Egypt and of the Gentile world, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt.
*Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.
*The Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments is not found in the book of Genesis.
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).
If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. I was in a discussion with a SDA (who is no longer here) who told me that ALL of these regulations still apply!
See post #93 from the link.https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/retire-the-ten-commandments.179528/page-5
Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
A questions to ask yourself: Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament? WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT: In Mark 7:21-22 sins are listed. *Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath. In Romans 1:29-32 20 sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking. In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given, In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there's a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned.
None of us have perfectly "obeyed" the 10 commandments. Those who seek salvation based on the merits of obeying the 10 commandments are in for a disappointment!
2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
Now in regards to "keep" the commandments. In 1 John 2:3-4, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - watch over, guard, keep intact) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not "keep" (watch over, guard, keep intact) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
◄ 5083. téreó ►
Strong's Concordance #5083
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact. - Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
The Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and the nation of Israel. "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. (Exodus 31:12-13) *Also see Deuteronomy 5:12-14.
It's often claimed by Sabbatarians that “God instituted the Sabbath in Eden” because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law and is identifying Himself to Israel as the true and living Creator God and is separate and apart from all of the other gods of Egypt and of the Gentile world, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt.
*Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.
*The Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments is not found in the book of Genesis.
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).
If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. I was in a discussion with a SDA (who is no longer here) who told me that ALL of these regulations still apply! See post #93 from the link.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/retire-the-ten-commandments.179528/page-5
Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
A questions to ask yourself: Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament? WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT: In Mark 7:21-22 sins are listed. *Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath. In Romans 1:29-32 20 sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking. In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given, In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there's a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned.
2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
Now in regards to "keep" the commandments. In 1 John 2:3-4, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - watch over, guard, keep intact) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not "keep" (watch over, guard, keep intact) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
◄ 5083. téreó ►
Strong's Concordance #5083
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact. - Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
The Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and the nation of Israel. "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. (Exodus 31:12-13) *Also see Deuteronomy 5:12-14.
It's often claimed by Sabbatarians that “God instituted the Sabbath in Eden” because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law and is identifying Himself to Israel as the true and living Creator God and is separate and apart from all of the other gods of Egypt and of the Gentile world, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt.
*Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.
*The Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments is not found in the book of Genesis.
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).
If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. I was in a discussion with a SDA (who is no longer here) who told me that ALL of these regulations still apply!
See post #93 from the link.https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/retire-the-ten-commandments.179528/page-5
Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
A questions to ask yourself: Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament? WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT: In Mark 7:21-22 sins are listed. *Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath. In Romans 1:29-32 20 sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking. In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given, In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there's a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned.
I checked post no. 93 in the link and it's not the person I usually talk to.
Even in Israel the Old laws are not kept!
I agree with all you've said about the covenants...I've taught them as you may remember.
I'd also go so far as to say that if we want to speak about the Sabbath and it's distinct laws, not only did Jesus not speak of this, but then Jesus Himself broke some of them and HE said that the Sabbath was not made for man but V V.
Your comment about the burnt offerings having to accompany the keeping of the Sabbath is a very good point. What bothers me is that it's a commandment. I guess I should stop thinking about this.
I also believe the ECF worshipped on Sunday, Resurrection day, the FIRST day of the week.
I checked out the Didache but it doesn't mention the day, just that they gathered to break bread together. There are a few places in John's writings and in Acts that tend to show that Sunday was observed.
In The OC a day was the rest of the people. Now Jesus is our rest, and every day is to be kept holy.
Come to Me all ye who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest...
And how many times have I quoted Colossians 2:19 for other concepts...
Thanks for such a complete thought out reply.
I appreciate it.
-
1
- Show all
So I guess it is okay to mock Sabbatarians even though we understand our salvation is by grace and not something we do. We who keep this day as holy do it for God. You that keep another day or no day do it for God. Well enough, but this thread was to discuss Sabbath. Was it not?
in spirit and in truth?
if a person can say unequivocally that Dan and i sin because we are working, with no other information being needed, that's one thing. but if it's not necessarily true that we sin by working today then what people call 'keeping sabbath' isn't the truth of it.
i don't believe I'm in sin for being in my lab today; in fact I think this is a good work of sorts. but you'd have to know more than the fact that I'm clocked in to determine that - which speaks to whether anyone is right to judge another over sabbath, because if I'm correct then sabbath observance is not by appearance, it's something else.
nobody cares to condemn me? that's good too.
-
1
- Show all
I was scheduled to work today and I’m working today. Is that evil? According to a SDA and an Armstrongite who both live on my mail route it is.
-
2
- Show all
I don't condemn you or anyone else for anything. That is not my job or any man's job. Let us each be persuaded we are within our Lord's graces. If you are happy with your walk with Jesus, I will call you brother and be happy with you. If in fellowship and I notice evil about you; I simply will separate myself from you and leave you to God.
-
2
- Show all