sabbath

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Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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The Sunday law is coming.
Hmmm...

In the book the Faith of our Fathers which was written by James cardinal Gibbons in 1876, You will find this quote. “But you may read the bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the “sanctification” of Sunday. The scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” And he should know what hes talkin about being one heart beat away from popedumbship. So did the catholics get it right by mistake. They were the 1st ones to change Gods day of rest from the sabbath to sunday. Did they not know that you can worship God in vain when you worship Him through the commandments of man? What day do you “sanctify”, Gods or mans?

GENESIS 2 [1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. [3] And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, AND SANCTIFIED IT: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

EZEKIEL 20 [12] Moreover also I GAVE THEM MY SABBATHS, TO BE A SIGN between me and them, that they might know THAT I AM THE LORD THAT SANCTIFY THEM.

The sabbath is a sign between God and his people that the “Lord does sanctify them”.

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.[17] THEY THAT SANCTIFY THEMSELVES, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, SHALL BE CONSUMED together, saith the LORD.

I just love “Day of the Lord” scriptures. No one can claim that the scripture is for ancient Israel, because its yet to be fulfilled. It will be fulfilled when Jesus returns. Anyways, if THE SABBATH IS A SIGN THAT GOD SANCTIFYS YOU. Who are those that “sanctify themselves”? Pretty simple to figure out.
 

Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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The early Christians should have seen this coming. They were actually givin many warnings about the bad guys and what they would do. The warnings are all around the new testament.
Why has no one responded to these scriptures?

The early Christians should have seen this coming. They were actually givin many warnings about the bad guys and what they would do. The warnings are all around the new testament.

1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a ROARING LION, walketh about, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:

ROARING LIONS! The bad guys

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are RAVENING WOLVES.

FALSE PROPHETS! They are RAVENING WOLVES. “The many” will follow these false prophets and but a few will take the way of life.

ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous WOLVES ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES after them.

The GRIEVOUS WOLVES been hangin round from the beginning

EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth WALK NOT AS OTHER GENTILES walk, in the VANITY of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all UNCLEANNESS with GREEDINESS.

All these warnings from the new testament are found in one scripture. “Day of the Lord” scriptures are not about ancient Israel. That day has not yet come. Day of the Lord scriptures do apply to christians (those who believe that Jesus came) and these scriptures will come to pass. To see what these ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES have done, simply read and believe the Word.

EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY OF HER PROPHETS in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; THEY HAVE DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN, and HAVE HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, SEEING VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

A conspiracy of the prophets. HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS! They meant to do it and they sure did pull it off despite the warnings. Up until the printing press, bibles were pretty scarce but even if someone discovered the Ezek.22 scripture Im sure the powers that be would have silenced that someone. So how did these bad guys pull this off?
 

Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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Why isnt the supposed change of Gods 4th commandment discussed anywhere? All through the new testament circumcision is discussed frequently. The whole book of Galatians is about whether they needed to be circumsized or not. The Jews couldnt handle the change. Could you imagine how many discussions there would be if they were told they need not keep the 4th commandment of God? Yikes! It would be discussed in every book of the new testament. And yet....not one word. No discussions. Zero
 

Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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Nope. Worshipping on the Lord's day occurred more or less immediately...

"Scripture reports that the New Testament church gathered to worship on Sunday (Acts 20:7;
ACTS 20 [7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.[8] And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

The above scripture is used by the many to convince people that sunday was being kept as a day of rest instead of the sabbath during the time of Paul. They will point out that on the first day of the week they came together to “break bread” and thus the believers of Pauls time were following sunday as the “new testament” day of rest.

ACTS 2 [42] And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.[43] And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.[44] And all that believed were together, and had all things common;[45] And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.[46] And they, CONTINUING DAILY with one accord in the temple, AND BREAKING BREAD from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

But as you can see they “broke bread” daily. Not just on the first day of the week. They were simply eating. The fact is, you will find no where in the new testament anyone keeping sunday as a day of rest.
 

Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
According to the scriptures Jesus did not do away with the law but made the law greater. He magnified the law to a spiritual level. He made the 10 commandments even harder to keep. Not what itching ears wanna hear.

2 COR. 3 [6] WHO ALSO HATH MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

ROMANS 7 [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.

As we can see in above scriptures we are now to walk in the spirit of the law. If we walk only in the letter of the law this will lead to death, but if we walk in the spirit of the law this leads to life.

MATTHEW 5 [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT KILL; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not kill
NEW SPIRIT- Don’t even get angry. Call no man a fool. Love one another in thought, word and deed.

MATTHEW 5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But i say unto you, that WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY with her already in his heart.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not commit adultery
NEW SPIRIT- Do not look on a woman to lust. Keep the law in our mind and spirit. Even in our eyes.

So you can see that Jesus did not do away with the letter of the law. Common sense will tell ya in order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. Jesus made the commandments even harder to keep and more honorable.

ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Yes, Jesus magnified the law. He took the letter of the law (which leads to death) and magnified the law to a spiritual level (which leads to life).
 

Mii

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Mar 23, 2019
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According to the scriptures Jesus did not do away with the law but made the law greater. He magnified the law to a spiritual level. He made the 10 commandments even harder to keep. Not what itching ears wanna hear.

2 COR. 3 [6] WHO ALSO HATH MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

ROMANS 7 [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.

As we can see in above scriptures we are now to walk in the spirit of the law. If we walk only in the letter of the law this will lead to death, but if we walk in the spirit of the law this leads to life.

MATTHEW 5 [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT KILL; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not kill
NEW SPIRIT- Don’t even get angry. Call no man a fool. Love one another in thought, word and deed.

MATTHEW 5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But i say unto you, that WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY with her already in his heart.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not commit adultery
NEW SPIRIT- Do not look on a woman to lust. Keep the law in our mind and spirit. Even in our eyes.

So you can see that Jesus did not do away with the letter of the law. Common sense will tell ya in order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. Jesus made the commandments even harder to keep and more honorable.

ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Yes, Jesus magnified the law. He took the letter of the law (which leads to death) and magnified the law to a spiritual level (which leads to life).
Interesting that you mention this.

I also recently, when thinking about law keeping, brought up this train of thought. In the law (as far as I know and what is possible) for the most part I do pretty well, but then factoring in the items you mentioned...I am a serious transgressor. Every time I focus based off solely the OT and the "letter" it's like this "legal thought process" and then it's like interjected..."Yes, however, you have abysmally failed in the fulness and you will always have need of further growth/pruning".

But, over time I've grown past a lot of things and still maintain the memory to guide people away from such thinking/sins.

Lusting was probably the biggest one although I didn't ever "physically" commit any sins.
Same thing with murder...I haven't ever been physically violent in any way but mentally (as well as verbal abuse) certainly. Verbally abusive behavior is mostly a thing of the past...and I don't really get any anger with no discernible cause.



Good topic. Glad someone mentioned that.
 

3angelsmsg

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2018
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Someone had made an illustration to explain what it means to be 'under the law'.

If you are driving 80 km per hour in 60 zone right? Are you under or above the law.

It means if you driving above the speed limit prescribed, you are actually under the law. Because you are breaking the law and not above it.

But when you drive within the speed limit, you are above the law.

It means in simple terms, you are under grace and not under the law.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Someone had made an illustration to explain what it means to be 'under the law'.

If you are driving 80 km per hour in 60 zone right? Are you under or above the law.

It means if you driving above the speed limit prescribed, you are actually under the law. Because you are breaking the law and not above it.

But when you drive within the speed limit, you are above the law.

It means in simple terms, you are under grace and not under the law.
Respectfully, your example does nothing to illustrate the Christian's relationship to the Law of Moses.

Perhaps a better example is tax laws. I as a citizen of Canada am not required to pay tax to the government of Indonesia because I am not "under the law" of Indonesia.
 

Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

How do true worshipers worship? In spirit and truth

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

The gentiles have been made partakers of Gods law.

PSALM 119 [150] They draw nigh that follow after mischief: they are far from thy law. [151] Thou art near, O LORD; and all THY COMMANDMENTS ARE TRUTH.

worship in spirit and truth

ACTS 24 [13] Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, SO WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, BELIEVING ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAW and in the prophets:

Paul speaking

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

How are we to recieve this Spirit of truth spoken of in John 4? By the keeping of Gods 10 commandments
 

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

How do true worshipers worship? In spirit and truth

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

The gentiles have been made partakers of Gods law.

PSALM 119 [150] They draw nigh that follow after mischief: they are far from thy law. [151] Thou art near, O LORD; and all THY COMMANDMENTS ARE TRUTH.

worship in spirit and truth

ACTS 24 [13] Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, SO WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, BELIEVING ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAW and in the prophets:

Paul speaking

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

How are we to recieve this Spirit of truth spoken of in John 4? By the keeping of Gods 10 commandments
* except John said in Chapter 3 of his first letter that the Commands are " believe on the name of the Son and love one another"

* except on the mount of transfiguration , God the Father ( truth of the Trinity ) came down and in the presence of Moses ( the Law) and Elijah ( the Prophets) and said of the Son " hear HIM". present tense. this means the Words in Red, what the Son said while on earth.

so, no Sabbath keeping required for Christ followers. nine of TEN were repeated in the N.T. ( no such thing as a " renewed Covenant" that is a judeaizer lie), with NO Sabbath keeping commanded in the N.T for Christ followers,
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

How do true worshipers worship? In spirit and truth

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

The gentiles have been made partakers of Gods law.

PSALM 119 [150] They draw nigh that follow after mischief: they are far from thy law. [151] Thou art near, O LORD; and all THY COMMANDMENTS ARE TRUTH.

worship in spirit and truth

ACTS 24 [13] Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, SO WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, BELIEVING ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAW and in the prophets:

Paul speaking

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

How are we to recieve this Spirit of truth spoken of in John 4? By the keeping of Gods 10 commandments
Salvation Free, but not Unconditional

God has made salvation free, but not unconditional. As noted previously God has made salvation not conditioned upon religious rituals or compliance to regulations, and as such it is not contingent upon one's behavior. That would sound like God justifies the wicked. YES, GOD JUSTIFIES THE WICKED.

"To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:5
This concept is inconceivable to the legalist, and as such God has so constructed the gospel as to make it contemptible to such people, as God has also orchestrated the gospel to make it contemptible to the proud in order to prevent them from being saved, while at the same time making salvation free. The gospel is not for those who try to be justified by their works.

This righteousness from God is apart from meeting any legal obligations. I tell you that, "No one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Rom 3:20-24 And thus "we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law." Rom 3:28
 

Deade

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yeshuaofisrael.org
I also recently, when thinking about law keeping, brought up this train of thought. In the law (as far as I know and what is possible) for the most part I do pretty well, but then factoring in the items you mentioned...I am a serious transgressor. Every time I focus based off solely the OT and the "letter" it's like this "legal thought process" and then it's like interjected..."Yes, however, you have abysmally failed in the fulness and you will always have need of further growth/pruning".
Now you see what comes from proper meditation of God's law (see Psalm 1). You begin to understand why nobody can properly keep it. That is why the original law had sacrifice as a way out when we transgressed. Christ took away the blood of animals and supplied His own blood, the true Lamb.

Our Lord Yeshua gave us a better understanding of God's laws when He delivered the Beatitudes. We began to see keeping the true intent of them, meant taking on a completely different mindset. That is when the laws are written into our minds and hearts (see Heb. 10:16). 5thumbsup.gif
 
Mar 29, 2019
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I beg to disagree.... If Jesus broke the Sabbath law he would have sinned and Bible clearly states that Jesus never sinned. He supposedly broke the law according to Jewish leaders but he did not break it according to God.
Hmm, only read a few responses on this, a bit messy.

My thoughts..

1. Jesus did NOT break the Sabbath law. What he did break is the Pharisaic additions to the law, the 'traditions'. It is lawful to pick something to eat on the sabbath, it is not lawful to harvest. And yes, Jesus absolutely had to be sinless to be a worthy sacrifice for humanities sins. If he broke the sabbath, then his sacrifice would be worthless.

2. The Sabbath was indeed for the Jews only.
Exo 31:16-17 Therefore the sons of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for an everlasting covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever.

3. During Acts, many of the Jewish Christians struggled with the fact that the Gentile believers need not observe the law, so much that they had the council in Acts 15 to sort it all out. In there it was agreed only four things, mostly about keeping ceremonially clean SO THAT the Jewish believers could commune with them and not be deemed unclean. The main reason, I believe, is so the Jewish believers could continue in the sharing the word among Jewish unbelievers.
And for this same reason, the Jewish believers were 'zealous' followers of the law (during Acts). For them to spread the message about Jesus, they have to be seen to be law-abiding Jews, and not unclean. Else they would not have carried any authority.

4. Only AFTER Acts where the Jews lost their priority position do we see the law abolished. It was fulfilled at the cross, but not 'abolished' until after Acts. Then we see 'let no one judge you in regard to ... sabbath days'.

So, Christians observing the Sabbath - those that do are free to do so, but they are incorrect if they think they need to.

5. The 'new covenant' - wrong, wrong, wrong!
The new covenant is NOT FOR GENTILES. The old covenant was conditional, and came in at Sinai, but the Jews broke the law and so a new (unconditional) covenant was promised. What Jesus announced at the last supper was not anything new (ie. unheard of), it was prophesied in the OT. There are a couple of passages, but Jeremiah 30 and 31 covers it pretty well.
There we see WHO the new covenant is for..

Jer 31:31-34 Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah; but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall no more teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.

This gets a pretty good mention in Hebrews 8 as well. And WHO is Hebrews addressed to? (Hint: NOT Gentiles).
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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Hmm, only read a few responses on this, a bit messy.

My thoughts..

1. Jesus did NOT break the Sabbath law. What he did break is the Pharisaic additions to the law, the 'traditions'. It is lawful to pick something to eat on the sabbath, it is not lawful to harvest. And yes, Jesus absolutely had to be sinless to be a worthy sacrifice for humanities sins. If he broke the sabbath, then his sacrifice would be worthless.

2. The Sabbath was indeed for the Jews only.
Exo 31:16-17 Therefore the sons of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for an everlasting covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever.

3. During Acts, many of the Jewish Christians struggled with the fact that the Gentile believers need not observe the law, so much that they had the council in Acts 15 to sort it all out. In there it was agreed only four things, mostly about keeping ceremonially clean SO THAT the Jewish believers could commune with them and not be deemed unclean. The main reason, I believe, is so the Jewish believers could continue in the sharing the word among Jewish unbelievers.
And for this same reason, the Jewish believers were 'zealous' followers of the law (during Acts). For them to spread the message about Jesus, they have to be seen to be law-abiding Jews, and not unclean. Else they would not have carried any authority.

4. Only AFTER Acts where the Jews lost their priority position do we see the law abolished. It was fulfilled at the cross, but not 'abolished' until after Acts. Then we see 'let no one judge you in regard to ... sabbath days'.

So, Christians observing the Sabbath - those that do are free to do so, but they are incorrect if they think they need to.

5. The 'new covenant' - wrong, wrong, wrong!
The new covenant is NOT FOR GENTILES. The old covenant was conditional, and came in at Sinai, but the Jews broke the law and so a new (unconditional) covenant was promised. What Jesus announced at the last supper was not anything new (ie. unheard of), it was prophesied in the OT. There are a couple of passages, but Jeremiah 30 and 31 covers it pretty well.
There we see WHO the new covenant is for..

Jer 31:31-34 Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah; but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall no more teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.

This gets a pretty good mention in Hebrews 8 as well. And WHO is Hebrews addressed to? (Hint: NOT Gentiles).
Sabbath is for all creation as it was celebrated, sanctified and made holy which means set apart by God at the end of creation week. He rested from His creation work and celebrated it with Adam and Eve. God asks us to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy to work six days and rest from all work on the seventh.

If the gentiles aren't covered by the New covenant then God help everyone who is not a Jew. Personally as I read my Bible I believe all are covered under the new covenant as Jesus died for all mankind not just the Jews.
 

Deade

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Sabbath is for all creation as it was celebrated, sanctified and made holy which means set apart by God at the end of creation week. He rested from His creation work and celebrated it with Adam and Eve. God asks us to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy to work six days and rest from all work on the seventh.

If the gentiles aren't covered by the New covenant then God help everyone who is not a Jew. Personally as I read my Bible I believe all are covered under the new covenant as Jesus died for all mankind not just the Jews.
Amen on this JesusLives. The whole earth and everything within, belongs to our God. He is not just the God of the Jews and Israel, He is the God of us all. We are all His people. 5thumbsup.gif
 

lightbearer

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Hmm, only read a few responses on this, a bit messy.

My thoughts..


5. The 'new covenant' - wrong, wrong, wrong!
The new covenant is NOT FOR GENTILES. The old covenant was conditional, and came in at Sinai, but the Jews broke the law and so a new (unconditional) covenant was promised. What Jesus announced at the last supper was not anything new (ie. unheard of), it was prophesied in the OT. There are a couple of passages, but Jeremiah 30 and 31 covers it pretty well.
There we see WHO the new covenant is for..

Jer 31:31-34 Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah; but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall no more teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.

This gets a pretty good mention in Hebrews 8 as well. And WHO is Hebrews addressed to? (Hint: NOT Gentiles).
Sure it is. What do you think the Gospel is?
 

Deade

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Hmm, only read a few responses on this, a bit messy.

My thoughts..

1. Jesus did NOT break the Sabbath law. What he did break is the Pharisaic additions to the law, the 'traditions'. It is lawful to pick something to eat on the sabbath, it is not lawful to harvest. And yes, Jesus absolutely had to be sinless to be a worthy sacrifice for humanities sins. If he broke the sabbath, then his sacrifice would be worthless.

2. The Sabbath was indeed for the Jews only.
Exo 31:16-17 Therefore the sons of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for an everlasting covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever.

3. During Acts, many of the Jewish Christians struggled with the fact that the Gentile believers need not observe the law, so much that they had the council in Acts 15 to sort it all out. In there it was agreed only four things, mostly about keeping ceremonially clean SO THAT the Jewish believers could commune with them and not be deemed unclean. The main reason, I believe, is so the Jewish believers could continue in the sharing the word among Jewish unbelievers.
And for this same reason, the Jewish believers were 'zealous' followers of the law (during Acts). For them to spread the message about Jesus, they have to be seen to be law-abiding Jews, and not unclean. Else they would not have carried any authority.

4. Only AFTER Acts where the Jews lost their priority position do we see the law abolished. It was fulfilled at the cross, but not 'abolished' until after Acts. Then we see 'let no one judge you in regard to ... sabbath days'.

So, Christians observing the Sabbath - those that do are free to do so, but they are incorrect if they think they need to.

5. The 'new covenant' - wrong, wrong, wrong!
The new covenant is NOT FOR GENTILES. The old covenant was conditional, and came in at Sinai, but the Jews broke the law and so a new (unconditional) covenant was promised. What Jesus announced at the last supper was not anything new (ie. unheard of), it was prophesied in the OT. There are a couple of passages, but Jeremiah 30 and 31 covers it pretty well.
There we see WHO the new covenant is for..

Jer 31:31-34 Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah; but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall no more teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.

This gets a pretty good mention in Hebrews 8 as well. And WHO is Hebrews addressed to? (Hint: NOT Gentiles).
God speak specifically of a Covenant people He will establish during the millennial rule. They are descendants of Jacob: 12,000 from each tribe. In the passage it actually identifies them as innocents, none of whom have known a woman. I believe they are innocent little ones, descendants of the 12 tribes who will be living at the time of the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. So God will redeem a remnant who will then form the core population that will go into the millennium as citizens of the 1000 years Jesus rules His Kingdom on earth.

These are children or young adults, because they are virgins. It wouldn’t make sense to stop the seals unless God were saving flesh and blood humans. God could let them just die, like the rest of the saints; and let them become spirits upon Christ's return. These are younger people that God will allowed to start the millennial rule. They seem to have the Holy Spirit. That makes them exceptions of being changed into spirits at Christ's coming. They are to be planted into their tribes’ original lands for the start of the millennial rule.

Remember, Ezekiel wrote after the ten northern tribes were long gone. In Ezekiel chapter 48 we are given the details where God places the 144,000 in the Promised land. The time reference for this, is after the healing waters flow from God's temple in Jerusalem (see Ezekiel chapter 47). This, of course, is after the Day of the Lord and Jesus’ return. With all the detail, it must be very important to God for us to get this right.

This is where the New Covenant is tied in with the rest of the world. The whole earth and everything within, belongs to our God. He is not just the God of the Jews and Israel, He is the God of us all. We are all His people. During the millennial reign the nations will look to these people that do everything the way God want us to live. As we are told in Micah:

Micah 4:1-5 “But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.”
 
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Sabbath is for all creation as it was celebrated, sanctified and made holy which means set apart by God at the end of creation week. He rested from His creation work and celebrated it with Adam and Eve. God asks us to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy to work six days and rest from all work on the seventh.

If the gentiles aren't covered by the New covenant then God help everyone who is not a Jew. Personally as I read my Bible I believe all are covered under the new covenant as Jesus died for all mankind not just the Jews.
1. I understand that God resting on the seventh day is the model for the sabbath for Israel, but it was not given to Gentiles. Go ahead, enjoy your sabbath if you want, but it is not a requirement. We are not bound by the law to keep it. And if you did want to follow the given law, then you are required to stone to death anyone who doesn't keep it. That is the LAW that was given back in Exodus.
(I also believe that the sabbath law is prophetic - hence the strictness in keeping it. It represents the thousand years of peace - the promised 'day of rest' for Israel, the millenium).

2. No, the Gentiles are NOT party to the New Covenant, the quote (above) from Jeremiah couldn't be any more clear "..I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah". Are you of the house of Israel or house of Judah? And I'm not talking about 'spiritual Israel', that's cheating!

Jesus himself stated more than once his mission - "I am not sent, but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel".
When he sends out his disciples "go NOT unto the way of the Gentiles or Samaritans".
What do you think these mean? For me, it means what it says.

The biggest area for misunderstanding of Christendom, for too long, is assuming the scriptures are all about us - they are not. The bulk of it is to, and for, and about Israel. Once you see that, it will open up a whole new appreciation for you. Gentiles certainly have a place, and blessings of our own, but we can't keep stealing all the promises from Israel as well. (And when we do, it seems we only pick out all the good bits. I have seen in an older KJV where the little sub-headings (I think, in Isaiah) was alternating between 'blessings for the church' and 'punishment for Israel' - you can't have it both ways).

Anyway, it is not possible to go pulling out lots of examples to try and convince you, but as you read the bible, notice the references to Israel, Judah, Abraham, Jacob, Jew, and so on. Don't just read over them, think about it. Maybe one day you will appreciate the distinctions rather than be horrified at the thought.

3. I'm not sure you know what the New Covenant is all about.
The first covenant was an agreement between Israel and God, given in Exodus 19 and the following chapters. Israel were to obey God's commandments, and God would make them a nation of priests (to all the other nations).
Now, as we know, Israel were not the best behaved, so the covenant was broken.
So God promised a NEW covenant (to replace the old), again with Israel. But the where the first covenant was conditional on Israel adhering to the law, the new covenant is unconditional, and 'the law will be written in their hearts' so they all follow the law without failure. And again, the plan is for them to be 'a kingdom of priests' to the nations.

Seriously, read all of Jeremiah 30 and 31, and note how much the focus is on Israel. It is undeniable.
 

garee

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Mar 28, 2016
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1. I understand that God resting on the seventh day is the model for the sabbath for Israel, but it was not given to Gentiles. Go ahead, enjoy your sabbath if you want, but it is not a requirement. We are not bound by the law to keep it. And if you did want to follow the given law, then you are required to stone to death anyone who doesn't keep it. That is the LAW that was given back in Exodus.(I also believe that the sabbath law is prophetic - hence the strictness in keeping it. It represents the thousand years of peace - the promised 'day of rest' for Israel, the millenium).
Stoning to death is not a ceremonial shadow it was the wage of breaking a moral law.

The fast was a model for a ceremonial law a rest a shadow to come.. Not a moral law subject to damnation. .

The seventh day is a day set aside for God people, a day when they could work to offer the gospel of rest. . . to those who know not Christ. The true fast. .The word sabbath is not subject to time restraints. It as a rest applies anytime a person mixes faith in what they see or hear and therefore not hardening one own heart but reveals a heart that has been softened by the gospel .

The word sabbaths (rests) is mistranslated by most translations. The Youngs literal has it written correctly in one place Mathew 28 but seem to follow the tradition that does try and have it come under time restraints in Luke 18. I understand the Greeks did not even have a word week . They would say seven days .

Using the work week the translators replaced the word rest(sabbath). Which was saying in effect dawning toward the first of the new era of sabbaths the day of the week to the first . As in let there be children of light.

Matthew 28 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

The King James translates it first day of the week .Not first of new era of sabbaths from the last day to the first day.

Matthew 28 King James Version (KJV)28 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week (Sabbaths), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.


Luke 18 mistranslates it. The Luke is mistranslated in all translations to include the Youngs. A person bragging in a religious fast saying only twice on the Sabbath not three meals like the norm.

luke 18:12-13 I fast twice in the week, (Sabbath) I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.