sabbath

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
7,451
4,463
113
#61
His people past, present and future. The 10 Commandments are for everyone unless you want to go to jail for some of them.
However Paul, formerly Saul the Pharisee, now Apostle by revelation of Jesus Himself, taught and preached consistently and in no uncertain terms that we are not now under "the law".

https://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=under*the*law

I think you do err and most grievously.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
7,451
4,463
113
#62
His people past, present and future. The 10 Commandments are for everyone unless you want to go to jail for some of them.
Acts 13:38

“Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses."
 
Sep 25, 2018
49
34
18
#63
Nope. Worshipping on the Lord's day occurred more or less immediately...

"Scripture reports that the New Testament church gathered to worship on Sunday (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2; Rev. 1:10). But Scripture doesn’t use the word Sunday, a name associated with sun worship (12–14). Instead, the early church spoke of Sunday as the first day of the week, or the first day from the Sabbath ."
In Acts 20:7, the Jews considered each day to start in the evening at sunset, so it sounds like Paul's message began Saturday night (which was the beginning of the first day), and he would be traveling the next morning on Sunday (which he most likely wouldn't have done if he considered the day sacred). Jesus, looking to the future, still considered it important to sanctify Sabbath by resting from unnecessary travel (Matt. 24:20). We can argue about all the points of that story, but I don't think it's conclusive evidence that Sunday was the disciples' new day of worship. As Dino246 said, gathering together can be done any day, but the Sabbath was still established as God's chosen day of worship from the beginning.
In 1 Cor. 16:2, again, I don't think that a mention of collecting money for the poor is a conclusive argument that the NT church considered Sunday God's holy day of rest.
And in Revelation 1:10, how can the "Lord's Day" be Sunday when Jesus said clearly that He is the Lord of the Sabbath, which He had already established as the seventh day from the beginning of time (Matt. 12:8; Ex. 20:8-11)? God's tradition goes back further than ours.
I agree with others that we should worship God every day of the week, but I believe that God set the seventh day apart and sanctified it (Gen. 2:2, 3). He does everything for a reason.
I don't think Sabbath should be a concept to run away from; God meant it for our benefit, and if He thought it was worth telling us to "remember" it, I think it's in our best interest to listen. He meant it as a blessing, not a burden (Is. 58:13). It's a special time to remember God as our Creator (Ex. 20:11), Redeemer (Deut. 5:15), and Sanctifier (Ex. 31:13). That's what I see from looking at the whole of Scripture.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
11,245
2,905
113
#64
God instituted The Holy Sabbath -
GEN. 2:2
And on the Seventh day God ended His work' which He had made; and He rested on the Seventh day
from all His work' which He had made.
3.
And God blessed the Seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work'
which God created and made.

Abraham kept Torah, GENESIS 26:5.
in this verse, (Commandments is translated Torah)...
(10 Commandments-one of them is The Sabbath)

JER. 31:33.
But this shall be the Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith The LORD,
I will put My Law=Law equals Torah) in their inward parts, and (write it in their hearts); and will be their God,
and they shall be MY PEOPLE.

This is the 'new-covenant' mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31, and quoted in the Book of Hebrews...
MATT. 5:18.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus could not have changed 'one letter of the Law', for if He did, He would be breaking the Commandment, this would
be a 'sin', and this would be impossible' for Him to do -
DEAU. 4:2.
You shall not add unto The Word which I command you, neither shall you diminish ought from It,
that you may KEEP the Commandments of The LORD your God which I Command you.

as it is written:
'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God'.
and again,
it is written, 'And God spoke all these Words, saying, (10 Commandments-EX.20.)

'If you Love Me, KEEP My Commandments' -

just a personal note here:
after Hub's and my Conversion, and this didn't all happen right away, but, He made it possible
here a little, there a little, for us to eventually get to a place and time where we could actually
be free/separate ourselves and 'observe and keep' His Holy Commandments...

keeping the Commandments has nothing to do with Eternal Salvation, but, it does have to do
with 'REWARD' -
MATT. 5:19.
Whosoever therefore shall (break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so),
he shall be called 'the least' in the Kingdom of Heaven': but whosoever shall do and teach them,
the same shall be called 'great in the Kingdom of Heaven'.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,129
4,522
113
#65
God instituted The Holy Sabbath -
GEN. 2:2
And on the Seventh day God ended His work' which He had made; and He rested on the Seventh day
from all His work' which He had made.
3.
And God blessed the Seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work'
which God created and made.

Abraham kept Torah, GENESIS 26:5.
in this verse, (Commandments is translated Torah)...
(10 Commandments-one of them is The Sabbath)

JER. 31:33.
But this shall be the Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith The LORD,
I will put My Law=Law equals Torah) in their inward parts, and (write it in their hearts); and will be their God,
and they shall be MY PEOPLE.

This is the 'new-covenant' mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31, and quoted in the Book of Hebrews...
MATT. 5:18.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus could not have changed 'one letter of the Law', for if He did, He would be breaking the Commandment, this would
be a 'sin', and this would be impossible' for Him to do -
DEAU. 4:2.
You shall not add unto The Word which I command you, neither shall you diminish ought from It,
that you may KEEP the Commandments of The LORD your God which I Command you.

as it is written:
'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God'.
and again,
it is written, 'And God spoke all these Words, saying, (10 Commandments-EX.20.)

'If you Love Me, KEEP My Commandments' -

just a personal note here:
after Hub's and my Conversion, and this didn't all happen right away, but, He made it possible
here a little, there a little, for us to eventually get to a place and time where we could actually
be free/separate ourselves and 'observe and keep' His Holy Commandments...

keeping the Commandments has nothing to do with Eternal Salvation, but, it does have to do
with 'REWARD' -
MATT. 5:19.
Whosoever therefore shall (break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so),
he shall be called 'the least' in the Kingdom of Heaven': but whosoever shall do and teach them,
the same shall be called 'great in the Kingdom of Heaven'.
When a person comes in to discuss the Word not having read and understood the Bible, they will not her you, nor me.

That person will continue to post his own ideas with no regard to the authority of our blessed Father Eternal. God bless you always in Jesus, Yeshua, amen.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,652
113
#66
God instituted The Holy Sabbath -
GEN. 2:2
And on the Seventh day God ended His work' which He had made; and He rested on the Seventh day
from all His work' which He had made.
3.
And God blessed the Seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work'
which God created and made.

Abraham kept Torah, GENESIS 26:5.
in this verse, (Commandments is translated Torah)...
(10 Commandments-one of them is The Sabbath)

JER. 31:33.
But this shall be the Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith The LORD,
I will put My Law=Law equals Torah) in their inward parts, and (write it in their hearts); and will be their God,
and they shall be MY PEOPLE.

This is the 'new-covenant' mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31, and quoted in the Book of Hebrews...
MATT. 5:18.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus could not have changed 'one letter of the Law', for if He did, He would be breaking the Commandment, this would
be a 'sin', and this would be impossible' for Him to do -
DEAU. 4:2.
You shall not add unto The Word which I command you, neither shall you diminish ought from It,
that you may KEEP the Commandments of The LORD your God which I Command you.

as it is written:
'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God'.
and again,
it is written, 'And God spoke all these Words, saying, (10 Commandments-EX.20.)

'If you Love Me, KEEP My Commandments' -

just a personal note here:
after Hub's and my Conversion, and this didn't all happen right away, but, He made it possible
here a little, there a little, for us to eventually get to a place and time where we could actually
be free/separate ourselves and 'observe and keep' His Holy Commandments...

keeping the Commandments has nothing to do with Eternal Salvation, but, it does have to do
with 'REWARD' -
MATT. 5:19.
Whosoever therefore shall (break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so),
he shall be called 'the least' in the Kingdom of Heaven': but whosoever shall do and teach them,
the same shall be called 'great in the Kingdom of Heaven'.
What day is your sabbath, Saturday or Sunday or one of the others?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,129
4,522
113
#67
What day is your sabbath, Saturday or Sunday or one of the others?
Man does not designate the order of things. When our Father created all that is, He designated the Sabbath as the seventh day. This cannot be changed not by man, not by superstición., it is the Word of God, amen.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,652
113
#68
If a person doesn’t go to church or has to
Man does not designate the order of things. When our Father created all that is, He designated the Sabbath as the seventh day. This cannot be changed not by man, not by superstición., it is the Word of God, amen.
Ok so what day of the week is it?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,129
4,522
113
#69
When a person comes in to discuss the Word not having read and understood the Bible, they will not her you, nor me.

That person will continue to post his own ideas with no regard to the authority of our blessed Father Eternal. God bless you always in Jesus, Yeshua, amen.
And so it goes. It's in the Book.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,129
4,522
113
#70
When a person continually asks another person a question after the reply has been perfectly given, this could be considered baiting. Please refrain from the practice, it is not dialoguing, it is contención.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,615
1,097
113
#71
hmm, interesting topic. It is on my mind often.

I think it is something that "can" be followed, for a blessing. Is it critical? Not in regard to salvation...but I do think every believer should have some opinion on it. Please don't take what I say out of context though and say that if you don't follow the sabbath you will not be blessed. There are many blessings in life we miss.

A lot of us grew up in church (I imagine) and it becomes rote. Take some time for personal study, read every verse mentioned as well as what the NT says (and it does say that the day doesn't matter I'm pretty sure). Ty @Dino246 for the reference.

You'd be surprised what happens when you go back to basics.


It's imperative in my own personal life to have rest. Not just physical rest (because I get that often enough) but mental and spiritual rest. A break if you will...where it's like breathing room to consecrate.


Someone said something about remembrance and that brings to mind another thing we do in remembrance.


It's a personal decision and yet I believe the law to still be fully relevant. Possibly for all it is not. For me, it can sometimes be a personal exercise in understanding the Lord as well as the necessity of grace in a more practical way. Helps me with pride and inspires humility in ways that I did not experience when I was growing up. Any time I think I'm a "hotshot" I feel drawn to it and realize, oh I erred there. It also brings about new respect for Jesus in ways that I believed but it brought home actual fact...I also really appreciate the ways he interacted with the law in regards to Pharisees. Particularly their attempted ploy on the Sabbath.

Do NOT go back to living under the law. That is a clear command in the NT. However, if the Lord lays a deeper study of the law on your heart don't shy away from it. There are some beautiful ways to understand your commission as an image bearer by looking at the OT covenant. As well as the cool part for me personally. The Lord drew "sojourners" to Israel and even grafted in gentiles into his assembly...although rare. A lot of times we overlook how important that really is.

As well as having people whose hearts burned for him despite the majority such as Caleb and Joshua.

Aspects of the law do not apply directly anymore (such as a physical high priest or animal sacrifice for remission of sins) but they still bring about "remembrance" of what the fulfillment is...Yeshua!

Certainly there are others but it helps me with understanding rather esoteric sins that I feel are wrong and couldn't really find anyone that agreed until I read it in the OT.

It also is interesting that Jesus expounded on certain commandments...which helps us to understand how the Lord really views purity on certain issues.


So it is certainly worthy of consideration. Reading a few other comments. Tis not a requirement...but we do need rest. Sometimes for people that forget to rest or get caught up in life...having a structured day for that purpose is extremely useful. All just depends on the person. I'm not just talking about physical rest...often we neglect our own needs to "have a time out" because of worries and anxieties that when we STOP for a whole day it allows some opportunities. Our bodies have limits.

Anyway I'm tired...had a long conversation about it with someone that was a bit more personalized to them. It is odd that every time I say something generally and specifically it changes a little.

I think it's something to consider without being legalistic. Much like tithing (which is preached mostly from the OT). Just because you feel like it is something we don't "need" for salvation, doesn't mean it is of no value.

It could be that I take following Jesus and living as he did out of context me being a gentile but then that brings up sojourners once again.

I'm still figuring out how it applies to me, except that it keeps coming back up. There was a time where I tried to be "orthodox" about it and that felt like living under the law and I went on like this for a while until it just felt too "weighty" unless the Lord specifically wanted me to do that. Almost impossible here without cultural support. Like, if that's what it's like to live under the weight of the Law? Ummm, yes I prefer grace for sure but with the cognizance of being mindful of where I transgress and taking steps to minimize on my own end and leave expungement up to the Lord.


It all depends on your personal mission/calling here. If you had a personal burden for the Jewish people for instance, it would become MUCH more relevant.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,129
4,522
113
#72
To one man a certain day is revered with a clear conscience in the sight of God. To another it is not with the same position in the sight of God.

Both are without sin, and correct. Now, I continue sharing on the subject of the Seventh day being th Sabbath of the Lord because people are making it into some kind of sin to think it is just fine to observe the day God made for our rest. I do not by any means think a person who believes the same as I but must work by obligation on the Sabbath is guilty of any sin. I always kept the Sabbath on the Seventh day, even though I had to work, I was obliged to. So if you see me expressing my views it is only becausse some are accusing s others of being "under the law," with no understanding of what they are saying whatsoever.not a nice thing to do.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,652
113
#73
When a person continually asks another person a question after the reply has been perfectly given, this could be considered baiting. Please refrain from the practice, it is not dialoguing, it is contención.
Please act like you got a little sense, you quoted me and ask you once
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,652
113
#74
To one man a certain day is revered with a clear conscience in the sight of God. To another it is not with the same position in the sight of God.

Both are without sin, and correct. Now, I continue sharing on the subject of the Seventh day being th Sabbath of the Lord because people are making it into some kind of sin to think it is just fine to observe the day God made for our rest. I do not by any means think a person who believes the same as I but must work by obligation on the Sabbath is guilty of any sin. I always kept the Sabbath on the Seventh day, even though I had to work, I was obliged to. So if you see me expressing my views it is only becausse some are accusing s others of being "under the law," with no understanding of what they are saying whatsoever.not a nice thing to do.
Who’s making it into a sin, haven’t read any post mentions it that way?
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,615
1,097
113
#75
Who’s making it into a sin, haven’t read any post mentions it that way?
If you were living "under the law" apart from grace it would be. Stiff penalties for Sabbath breaking.

People have a tendency to see people with respect and love of the law in its fullness (with Jesus) as being legalistic or living under the law. With study I think most believers would agree that is not what is occurring, just understanding a little deeper. Something that isn't laid on everyone's heart it seems.

I'm not saying you specifically...just that people do and I believe he was just stating his position.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,129
4,522
113
#76
Once more it would appear that question has already been responded to adequately...….more baiting with eyes closed and ears stopped. Thus many go through life missing out on what is true and good.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
7,451
4,463
113
#77
Once more it would appear that question has already been responded to adequately...….more baiting with eyes closed and ears stopped. Thus many go through life missing out on what is true and good.
Acts 15

When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. 5But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”


6The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,558
247
63
#78
Same debate and same verses, over and over.
You'll believe what you want in the end. But i can't believe that the Law of love and moral code written by God on stone can change or disappear. Stealing, lying, taking Gods name in vain is still wrong today but most think the sabbath is not relevant. The new testament seems to contradict itself because some verses say the law is abolished and others say we should keep them. It all makes sense if you understand which law it is talking about and the right meaning. One was added because of transgressions. And sin is the transgtession of the law.
Logic tells me they can't be the same law. Gal 3:19, 1 John 3:4.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,129
4,522
113
#79
My posts recently were not making reference to obeying all of the law, just referring to my Sabbath in the sight of God.
Some came to pervert what I have posted to place me as being under the law, as they put it, those seekers of faults in others.

Now they are quoting Paul here, but I have quoted Jesus many times in the past teaching not to tell others not to obey the law. It is in Matthew and it is in Luke. Also in Revelation He teaches to obey the commandments.

So I listen to Paul with understanding and to Jesus with understandig. I believe Paul is doing his best to teach truth not understood by so many today who prefer their personal interpretations while denying the teaching of Jesus, Yeshua.

No one is able to show where Jesus teaches against the law, but all find arguments elsewhter that do not seem to cincide with each other let alone with the Word of our Teacher.

Fellow children in Jesus, do not listen to any who teach against His direct words for they are flotsam on the sea guided only by each breeze, no matter its direction, and arriving nowhere. Always hear our Savior, Jesus.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,558
247
63
#80
True there is a new covenant.
But please read all of Heb 8 and see the context. The old was the laws and ordanaces given to point the people to Jesus. The shadow laws that aren't needed now that Jesus has come.
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
No need for blood offerings because is our perfect lamb.
The Sabbath was made holy before sin, and God wants to put the law in our hearts, why do most people refuse to enjoy the blessing of the sabbath.