sabbath

[Wall]

JUDE 1 [4] For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. [5] I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, afterward DESTROYED THEM THAT BELIEVED NOT.

So who are these ungodly people who turned the GRACE of God into lasciviousness and who the Lord destroyed due to unbelief? Jude1 and Hebrews 3 and Zeke 20 are speaking of the same event. Alls we gotta do is go look at scripture that tells us why they were destroyed in the wilderness

HEBREWS 3 [12]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF, in departing from the living God. [13] But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] WHILE IT IS SAID, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, AS IN THE PROVOCATION. [16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came OUT OF EGYPT by Moses. [17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, WHOSE CARCASES FELL IN THE WILDERNESS? [18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief
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Scripture above (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - those that believed not - destroyed them)
Scripture below (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - polluted HIS SABBATHS - destroyed them)

EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, and brought them INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.

There it is. They were destroyed in the wilderness because they were not keeping Gods sabbath day. Dont walk with an evil heart of unbelief {Hebrews3v12}. Keep Gods sabbath day. Today hear His voice!

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Try reading the book of Hebrews and learn how the new covenant surpasses the old.

Try reading the book of Hebrews and learn how the new covenant surpasses the old.

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The new covenant was not a replacement,, God does not alter his covenant, neither does he break his covenants. If you read Jeremiah 31, God through the mouth of Jeremiah said he will make (not replace) a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the one he made with their fathers and with their fathers he put them on tablets of stone and with them he stored them in their minds and writing them in their hearts.

 

[Wall]

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The new covenant was not a replacement,, God does not alter his covenant, neither does he break his covenants. If you read Jeremiah 31, God through the mouth of Jeremiah said he will make (not replace) a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the one he made with their fathers and with their fathers he put them on tablets of stone and with them he stored them in their minds and writing them in their hearts.

The covenant of Jer.31 has not yet come to pass

 

[seed_time_harvest]

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In response to you post...

You said that the law made nothing perfect, but if you read the Epistle of James, it gives us examples on how faith wrought with work and that by works faith is made perfect, stating it in a form of a question so that one can see the truth of God's word what God made clear when he first spoke. Therefore, by observing the Sabbath faith is also made perfect and that is how the faith of a man is justified, not only by faith, which is what James is saying, how can one say they have faith if they cannot justify that faith. Faith is made perfect through works, and that is how a man's faith is justified.

Remember that the law of the LORD is perfect and that our faith is made perfect in our obedience to the law of God!

Question, are you opposed to removing the law of God from the schools, yes or no? Please respond with why yes or no.

If the law made nothing perfect, is the law perfect? Please answer Yes or No.[/QUOTE]
GOD looks at the REAL you/your TRUE thoughts,man looks to see by your actions If what you are saying matches what you are doing.

The law of GOD IS PERFECT but man Is carnal.

GOD looks at the REAL you/your TRUE thoughts,man looks to see by your actions If what you are saying matches what you are doing.

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version


1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

 

[Wall]

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

And yet...

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

Abe was keeping Gods 10 commandments. Honest

 

[seed_time_harvest]

And yet...

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

Abe was keeping Gods 10 commandments. Honest

No man could keep the ten commandments and GOD will accept only perfection of the Spirit.After GOD perfects the Spirit of just men,men,by the mercy that GOD has shown him should present his BODY a living sacrifice.GOD made his spirit perfect and he should be In the process of making his body/mind perfect.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

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The laws of sacrifice is fulfilled in Yeshua once and for all, therefore, man does not have to sacrifice animals.

Show me were in the Scriptures does it say that Yeshua done away with the Sabbath. Remember, he came to do that which he heard from his Father and nowhere in the Scriptures did Yeshua hear from his Father to do away with the Sabbath day.

Yes,Instead of the blood of bulls and goats making atonement ,the blood of JESUS HIMSELF makes atonement and HIS sacrifice was accepted by a PERFECT and righteous loving GOD.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Which Sabbath?

The daily, hourly sabbath called today we enter into when we do mix faith in what we do hear? Or the ceremonial a shadow of the Hebrew 4 Sabbath..?

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There is only one specific day that God commanded to keep it holy and even though the Sabbath day is part of the Ten Commandment, it appears from the way it is written that God had established the Sabbath day with his people at a time prior to bringing it up in the Ten Commandments; remember the Sabbath, which refers to a day that was being held at one time and was forgotten.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

I know we are to keep Gods sabbath day. However, i just proved through scripture that the "Lords Day" found in Revelations is truly the Day of the Lord. Sorry bout that.

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Please make yourself clear, Day of the Lord, please elaborate.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

If the law made nothing perfect, is the law perfect? Please answer Yes or No.

GOD looks at the REAL you/your TRUE thoughts,man looks to see by your actions If what you are saying matches what you are doing.

The law of GOD IS PERFECT but man Is carnal.

GOD looks at the REAL you/your TRUE thoughts,man looks to see by your actions If what you are saying matches what you are doing.

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version


1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.[/QUOTE]
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You are going into the Scriptures to make it agree with your view which is why you are not even clear in what you are saying. What does my question have to do with one being carnal?

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Yes,Instead of the blood of bulls and goats making atonement ,the blood of JESUS HIMSELF makes atonement and HIS sacrifice was accepted by a PERFECT and righteous loving GOD.

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Yes,Instead of the blood of bulls and goats making atonement ,the blood of JESUS HIMSELF makes atonement and HIS sacrifice was accepted by a PERFECT and righteous loving GOD.

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You stated, if you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

Question... what does this have to do with what we are talking about?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

The same GOD that spoke In the old covenant/testament Is the same GOD that’s speaks In the new covenant/testament and since GOD does not change are we to keep the old covenant and be under grace at the same time?

Work Is work and the person that works Expects to receive because they worked for It but a person that receives something for free receives believes that they didn’t earn It but It was given to them by grace.

GODs law Is perfect and only JESUS could fulfill the law perfectly as the son of man ,so then under the old covenant JESUS had not died yet and changed the old to the new covenant, so then a person would have to fulfill the law perfectly of their own strength and would fall short because of the weakness of their flesh so then whether old or new ,Grace by Faith In GOD Is the only way.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

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You stated, if you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

Question... what does this have to do with what we are talking about?

Are you talking about the words In red In post #967, that’s my signature meaning after every post I respond to no matter what forum my post would always show my signature.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

The same GOD that spoke In the old covenant/testament Is the same GOD that’s speaks In the new covenant/testament and since GOD does not change are we to keep the old covenant and be under grace at the same time?

Work Is work and the person that works Expects to receive because they worked for It but a person that receives something for free receives believes that they didn’t earn It but It was given to them by grace.

GODs law Is perfect and only JESUS could fulfill the law perfectly as the son of man ,so then under the old covenant JESUS had not died yet and changed the old to the new covenant, so then a person would have to fulfill the law perfectly of their own strength and would fall short because of the weakness of their flesh so then whether old or new ,Grace by Faith In GOD Is the only way.

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In response to your above post, first the Scripture is clear that God does not alters, nor break his commandments and it is clear from the Scriptures that he did not replace the old Covenant which was made with their fathers on tablets of stones. He made a new commandments, not with their fathers, but with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah (read Jeremiah 31), cross-reference with Hebrews where this was confirmed like God spoke through the mouth of Jeremiah, "I will store them in their minds and write them in their hearts.


Let me make this clear, the new covenant was made with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah and not with the Gentile, so if you are speaking as a Gentile believer then you need to read Jeremiah 31 and ask yourself the question, who is this covenant made with, their fathers or with the house of Israel and the house of the Judah? Or is he talking to the Gentiles?

You ask, are we to keep the old covenant and be under grace at the same time? One again, it is a new covenant that God made and the above explains with who. The law has to do with walking in obedience with God and has nothing to do with salvation, we are save by grace alone through faith apart from the law.

Obedience to God's law is essential in the believer life because it has to do with obedience and nothing to do with grace. I can show you a passage in the Old Testament an example of this and you probably will not see it because you are too caught up with what you have been taught.

Questions, do you carve images and bow down to them, do you steal, do you murder, do you covet? If you don't, are you being obedient to God's laws? Yes! Does this have any to do with you being saved by grace through faith? No! But, it does show that you yourself are being obedient to the law of God at the same time saying they are done away with.

It is not about working for salvation, it is about being obedient to God's law. Do you keep the law to love the Lord God with your whole hearts, soul, mind, and all you might and do you love your neighbor as yourself? If you answer yes, are you working for Salvation? No, you are just showing your obedience to God's law.

Are you able to see the above? If not, then you need to not talk to anyone, clear your mind of what you believe and read the Scriptures and tell God to make clear to you what he made clear when he first. I state this as an encouragement.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

The covenant of Jer.31 has not yet come to pass

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I guess you are not familiar with the Epistle of Hebrews.

 

[Grandpa]

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You say that they should not be removed from school, but you removed them out of the Scriptures.

Let me tell you about this rest you are talking about in your response to Judge... Hebrews4:10 is telling us that the man who believes in Yeshua has entered into his rest, meaning he is resting in a perfect work of redemption and it has nothing to do with removing the Sabbath day and nowhere in this passage does it say that the specific day God gave is done away with and if it does show me where. So it is a better rest because believers are resting in a perfect work of redemption and not in a perfect work of creation, but that does not remove the Sabbath.

I didn't remove them from scripture. The 10 commandments are what brings people to Christ.

Once they come to Christ they receive rest from their work at the 10 commandments. They receive the understanding that the 10 commandments were intended as a Spiritual Law and can only be fulfilled and obeyed by the Spirit. Not by a carnal understanding of working at the law.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


This is the most simple explanation that can be given of WHY working at the law is NOT obedience to God. The way of obedience to God is by faith in Christ.

For some weird reason legalists and judaizers can never understand this simplicity. They can't break out of their circular reasoning which always brings them back to working at the law.

2 Corinthians 3:13-16
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


Do you understand any of these passages that I have posted?

 

[Grandpa]

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The laws of sacrifice is fulfilled in Yeshua once and for all, therefore, man does not have to sacrifice animals.

Show me were in the Scriptures does it say that Yeshua done away with the Sabbath. Remember, he came to do that which he heard from his Father and nowhere in the Scriptures did Yeshua hear from his Father to do away with the Sabbath day.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Lord Jesus didn't come to fulfill part of the law. He came to fulfill ALL the law.

People who have faith in Christ do not work at the law in their own carnal understanding and strength. That way is stubborn stupidity that leads nowhere.

Those who have faith in Christ are led to to Salvation and Righteousness. Which is lightyears ahead of anything you can achieve by working at the law.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

You know sabbath means rest, right?


This was prophesied by Ezekiel;
Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[Grandpa]

So if I love my neighbor as myself (Leviticus 19:18) I am working at the law and I am going to hell?

Loving your neighbor as YOU think should occur will not keep you out of hell.

Only coming to Christ and receiving Rest from your work at the law will keep you out of hell.

 

[Grandpa]

I cant figure why those people who wish to make Gods law void call those who wish to keep Gods law legalist. I ant imagine standing before the Lord saying "save me Lord im an illegalist, i did nothing you commanded me to do". Good luck with that

And yet that is the understanding you must attain in order to come to Christ and receive Salvation and Righteousness.

Those who wish to work at the law are nowhere close to keeping it or attaining its goal.

Only those who come to Christ begin to attain the goal of the 10 commandments, and are given rest from working at them.

 

[Grandpa]

Yeah. We must obey God and keep His commandments

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

So why was Abraham observing to keep Gods 10 commandments? He heard and obeyed Gods "voice"

DEUT. 27 [8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly. [9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God . [10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

The voice...The 10 commandments. No doubt about it

ZEPHANIAH 3 [1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city! [2] SHE OBEYED NOT THE VOICE; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God. [3] Her princes within her are ROARING LIONS; her judges are evening WOLVES; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow. [4] Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, THEY HAVE DONE VIOLENCE TO THE LAW.

Youll find those lions and wolves mentioned in the new covenant scriptures. The bad guys

JOHN 10 [27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Also Gods sheep shall also hear His “voice”.

HEBREWS 4 [6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, harden not your hearts.

Was this prophecied to happen?

DEUTERONOMY 4 [26] I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. [27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. [28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. [29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. [30] When thou art in TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee, even in THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be OBEDIENT UNTO HIS VOICE; [31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Yup

Yeah. You must. But you don't.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

There is where the bar of obedience has been set. Its pretty high.


Here is how those with faith achieve it;
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


Those who try to attain obedience to God by their work at the law are just stubborn and lack wisdom and understanding.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;