sabbath

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Nov 16, 2019
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The 1,000 year reign of Christ is a sabbath. Is that intended ONLY for the Jews and not the Gentiles?
It seems to be for any believer, Jew or gentile, who was martyred in this life.
Does that mean literal martyrdom? Or every believer who lived the crucified life?
Don't know.

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They a had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. - Revelation 20:4-5

I'm not real big on deciphering end times things so I'm not going to go to fisticuffs over it.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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The 1,000 year reign of Christ is a sabbath. Is that intended ONLY for the Jews and not the Gentiles?
Q
Yes. Rest in Christ has replaced working at the law.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


That better Hope being Rest in Christ and RECEIVING Righteousness, Salvation, Sanctification as Gods Gift.

Rather than working at the law and attempting to earn blessing from God, or even worse calling it "obedience" to God.
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grandpa, you did not respond to anything I said, this tells me a lot about you, you are stuff with what you have been taught, therefore,
Yes. Rest in Christ has replaced working at the law.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


That better Hope being Rest in Christ and RECEIVING Righteousness, Salvation, Sanctification as Gods Gift.

Rather than working at the law and attempting to earn blessing from God, or even worse calling it "obedience" to God.
------------------------------------

grandpa, you did not respond to anything I post which tells me a lot about you and if you cannot respond to my post then don't bother responding to any of my post and I will do the same, will ignore your post.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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Read the passage.
It means make every effort to live in obedience.
To whatever extent that means obeying what is written in the law in this New Covenant, do it.
There is no rest outside of obedience to God.
Faith is the lever that makes the heavy weight of obedience light.
But somehow faith has now become a license to excuse oneself from obedience because "salvation is not by works, and you can't lose your salvation anyway."


The rest that God gives is rest from the task master of sin, not rest from some perceived task master of obedience.
It's YOUR work that you rest from, not works of obedience.
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Judge, you are indubitably correct, they take it to mean rest from the being obedience to God's law, when it is rest from word, but they do not understand that because they are to stuck to the teaching of men.

The Apostle John had a vision on the Lord's Day, what day is the Lord's day? No where in the Scriptures are we told that the Lord's day is Sunday and if it is they need to show us Scriptures and they can't and that is because they are leaning to the teachings of men, in other way of putting it, they are leaning to the doctrine of man. Nowhere in the Scriptures did God identifies himself with any day other than the seventh day when it comes to the Sabbath. The Apostle John said, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, if that meant Sunday, show me from the Scriptures.

Conclusion, Yeshua was able to say that he was the Lord of the Sabbath because if you read Exodus 20, the Sabbath is of the Lord and Yeshua recognized the specific day that God commanded that the Sabbath is to be kept. Men have took the Sabbath and moved it to Sunday misleading many.
 
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Covenant is a legal contract. All the promises of God are conditional. IF we do our part we can be sure that God will do His part. He is a God of absolute Justice: perfect and precise. We see this in Science when we study how fine tuned this Universe is. My son is actually getting a degree in mathmatics. So he understand math a lot better then I do.
 

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SUNDOWNSAM

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That would be justification by works. Those that are martyred receive a reward. "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph4:9) The Grace of God does a work in us.
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James 2 :...

21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Man is justified by faith and faith produces works and his works justifies him, now andd verse 24, you see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
 

Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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The Apostle John had a vision on the Lord's Day, what day is the Lord's day? No where in the Scriptures are we told that the Lord's day is Sunday and if it is they need to show us Scriptures and they can't and that is because they are leaning to the teachings of men, in other way of putting it, they are leaning to the doctrine of man. Nowhere in the Scriptures did God identifies himself with any day other than the seventh day when it comes to the Sabbath. The Apostle John said, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, if that meant Sunday, show me from the Scriptures.
Hello Sundown

REV.1 [7] Behold, HE COMETH WITH CLOUDS; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of THE EARTH SHALL WAIL because of him. Even so, Amen.[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.[9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.[10] I was in the Spirit on THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a GREAT VOICE, as of A TRUMPET,

he cometh with clouds - of a trumpet - the Lord's day - a great voice - the earth shall wail

ZEPH.1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall CRY THERE BITTERLY.[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness,[16] A day of THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers

a day of clouds - of the trumpet - The great day of the LORD - even the voice - man shall cry there bitterly

See how these two scriptures are speaking of the same exact event. Pretty simple to see now that the Lords day is not sunday nor the sabbath day but another way to say the Day of the Lord. Simply read Rev.1. Tell me, why in the world would the earth wail because it was a sunday? However.......

AMOS 5 [16] Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; WAILING shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to WAILING. [17] And in all vineyards shall be WAILING: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD. [18] Woe unto you that desire THE DAY OF THE LORD! to what end is it for you? THE DAY OF THE LORD is darkness, and not light.

There will be plenty of WAILING come the DAY OF THE LORD
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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Read the passage.
It means make every effort to live in obedience.
To whatever extent that means obeying what is written in the law in this New Covenant, do it.
There is no rest outside of obedience to God.
Faith is the lever that makes the heavy weight of obedience light.
But somehow faith has now become a license to excuse oneself from obedience because "salvation is not by works, and you can't lose your salvation anyway."


The rest that God gives is rest from the task master of sin, not rest from some perceived task master of obedience.
It's YOUR work that you rest from, not works of obedience.
Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


I hear this same twist from every legalist and every Judaizer to excuse their philosophy of working at the law. Working at the law does NOT equate to obedience. There is only one way to be obedient to God and that is by Resting in Christ. That is how we receive Salvation. That is how we receive Righteousness.

Don't you know that Righteousness IS obedience to God?

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If obedience to God comes by your work at the law then Christ is dead in vain. If obedience were possible by your work then Christ would have just said "Do a better job" and all of mankind would understand, the jews wouldn't have been so mad... etc
 

mailmandan

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Man is justified by faith and faith produces works and his works justifies him, now andd verse 24, you see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
The works of Abraham justified him "in what sense?"

*Remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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grandpa, you did not respond to anything I post which tells me a lot about you and if you cannot respond to my post then don't bother responding to any of my post and I will do the same, will ignore your post.
You asked if I believed in Replacement Theology. I showed you what I believe. You didn't refute it.

Yes. Rest in Christ has replaced working at the law.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


That better Hope being Rest in Christ and RECEIVING Righteousness, Salvation, Sanctification as Gods Gift.

Rather than working at the law and attempting to earn blessing from God, or even worse calling it "obedience" to God.


You said to keep it brief. That was pretty brief. Is it wrong or is it scriptural?
 

Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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That would be justification by works. Those that are martyred receive a reward. "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph4:9) The Grace of God does a work in us.
We are not saved by works. We are saved by the free gift of grace. BUT to whom is this free gift given? The book of Revelation was written long after Christ rose from the dead. The “many” claim your works are not important to God. So lets see what the written WORD says to the churches about your works.

REVELATION 1 [20] The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the SEVEN CHURCHES: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

REVELATION 2 [1]Unto the angel of THE CHURCH OF EPHESUS write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; [2] I KNOW THY WORKS, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

REVELATION 2 [8] And unto the angel of THE CHURCH IN SMYRNA write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; [9] I KNOW THY WORKS........

REVELATION 2 [12] And to the angel of THE CHURCH IN PERGAMOS write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; [13] I KNOW THY WORKS...........

REVELATION 2:18-19 (KJV) [18] And unto the angel of THE CHURCH IN THYATIRA write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; [19] I KNOW THY WORKS, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, AND THY WORKS; and the last to be more than the first.

REVELATION 3 [1] And unto the angel of THE CHURCH IN SARDIS write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I KNOW THY WORKS, that thou hast a name that thou livest, AND ART DEAD.

REVELATION 3 [7] And to the angel of THE CHURCH IN PHILADELPHIA write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; [8] I KNOW THY WORKS.......

REVELATION 3 [14] And unto the angel of THE CHURCH OF THE LAODICEANS write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; [15] I KNOW THY WORKS, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. [16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I WILL SPUE THEE OUT OF MY MOUTH.

The very first thing said to all the churches..... I know thy works!

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.[2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old:........
[7] THAT THEY MIGHT SET THEIR HOPE IN GOD, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:[8] And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.[9] The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.[10] They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law;[11] And forgat his works, and his wonders that he had shewed them.

We all should know who opened His mouth using parables. YUP. Jesus Christ
 

Wall

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ROMANS 3 [21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [23] FOR ALL HAVE SINNED, AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY of God; [24] BEING JUSTIFIED FREELY BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; [26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [28] THEREFORE WE CONCLUDE THAT A MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW. [29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

Because we all have broken the 10 commandments, we all have sinned and come up short. So we could never be justified by the keeping of the commandments, but by faith. But do we make void the law (10 commandments) because of that faith? GOD FORBID.

LUKE 17 [5] And the apostles said unto the Lord, INCREASE OUR FAITH. [6] And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you. [7] But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? [8] And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? [9] DOTH HE THANK THAT SERVANT BECAUSE HE DID THE THINGS THAT WERE COMMANDED HIM? I TROW NOT. [10] So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, WE ARE UNPROFITABLE SERVANTS: WE HAVE DONE THAT WHICH WAS OUR DUTY TO DO.

Verse 9. Some parables are so clear. Even though we have done which was our duty to do and did the things commanded of us, we are still unprofitable servants. Filthy rags. Its only by grace through faith that we are saved. OK, so what is our duty that we must do?

ECCLES. 12 [8] Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity. [9] And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs. [10] The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. [11] THE WORDS OF THE WISE are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from ONE SHEPHERD. [12] And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. [13] LET US HEAR THE CONCLUSION OF THE WHOLE MATTER: FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN. [14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Theres the conclusion of the whole matter. Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

TITUS 1 [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[16] THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

PSALM 119 [126] It is TIME FOR THEE, LORD, TO WORK: for they have made void thy law. [127] Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold. [128] Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

ROMANS 9 [28] For HE WILL FINISH THE WORK, and cut it short in righteousness: because A SHORT WORK will the Lord make upon the earth.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


I suggest you let that one marinate.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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I hear this same twist from every legalist and every Judaizer to excuse their philosophy of working at the law. Working at the law does NOT equate to obedience.
I can't talk to you until I know what 'working at the law' means to you, and what 'make every effort' means to you.

"anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, e just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience." - Hebrews 4:10-11

And, remember, I said this:
I'm not defending the literal keeping of the ceremonial laws of the OT...
So, please, don't go off on a tangent about Sabbaths and Feasts, etc.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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I can't talk to you until I know what 'working at the law' means to you, and what 'make every effort' means to you.

"anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, e just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience." - Hebrews 4:10-11

And, remember, I said this:

So, please, don't go off on a tangent about Sabbaths and Feasts, etc.
The scripture is obvious. Its perfectly clear.

If you are working then you are not resting. Therefore, you need to make every effort to stop emulating those who continue to work and not rest.

You can't continually work and call that rest. Its an obvious oxymoron.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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The scripture is obvious. Its perfectly clear.

If you are working then you are not resting.
So I should avoid being obedient to God's word?

Therefore, you need to make every effort to stop emulating those who continue to work and not rest.

You can't continually work and call that rest. Its an obvious oxymoron.
So what he's really saying is I should not be obedient to God's word and instead should do nothing? Otherwise I would not be resting as commanded?
 
Nov 16, 2019
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"anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, e just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience." - Hebrews 4:10-11

Hey, @Grandpa. I'm pretty sure the passage is saying their problem was their disobedience to the word of God, not their obedience to the word of God. Their disobedience was why they could not enter into Sabbath rest. The example I am not to follow is their disobedience to the word of God.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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Hello Sundown

REV.1 [7] Behold, HE COMETH WITH CLOUDS; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of THE EARTH SHALL WAIL because of him. Even so, Amen.[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.[9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.[10] I was in the Spirit on THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a GREAT VOICE, as of A TRUMPET,

he cometh with clouds - of a trumpet - the Lord's day - a great voice - the earth shall wail

ZEPH.1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall CRY THERE BITTERLY.[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness,[16] A day of THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers

a day of clouds - of the trumpet - The great day of the LORD - even the voice - man shall cry there bitterly

See how these two scriptures are speaking of the same exact event. Pretty simple to see now that the Lords day is not sunday nor the sabbath day but another way to say the Day of the Lord. Simply read Rev.1. Tell me, why in the world would the earth wail because it was a sunday? However.......

AMOS 5 [16] Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; WAILING shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to WAILING. [17] And in all vineyards shall be WAILING: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD. [18] Woe unto you that desire THE DAY OF THE LORD! to what end is it for you? THE DAY OF THE LORD is darkness, and not light.

There will be plenty of WAILING come the DAY OF THE LORD
------------------

The Sabbath day is of the LORD, it was the specific day that the LORD gave when he gave the Ten Commandments and I am sure that you agree with me. The Aposle John is stating that on that day he had a vision.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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Hello Sundown

REV.1 [7] Behold, HE COMETH WITH CLOUDS; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of THE EARTH SHALL WAIL because of him. Even so, Amen.[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.[9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.[10] I was in the Spirit on THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a GREAT VOICE, as of A TRUMPET,

he cometh with clouds - of a trumpet - the Lord's day - a great voice - the earth shall wail

ZEPH.1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall CRY THERE BITTERLY.[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness,[16] A day of THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers

a day of clouds - of the trumpet - The great day of the LORD - even the voice - man shall cry there bitterly

See how these two scriptures are speaking of the same exact event. Pretty simple to see now that the Lords day is not sunday nor the sabbath day but another way to say the Day of the Lord. Simply read Rev.1. Tell me, why in the world would the earth wail because it was a sunday? However.......

AMOS 5 [16] Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; WAILING shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to WAILING. [17] And in all vineyards shall be WAILING: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD. [18] Woe unto you that desire THE DAY OF THE LORD! to what end is it for you? THE DAY OF THE LORD is darkness, and not light.

There will be plenty of WAILING come the DAY OF THE LORD
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The Sabbath day is of the LORD, it was the specific day that the LORD said to remember and to keep holy, and I am sure that you would agree with me that the Sabbath is the LORD's day from the Ten Commandment perspective. What the Apostle John is saying on the LORD'S day (the Sabbath day) while in the Isle that is called Patmos, I was in the Spirit and I heard a voice like a trumpet behind me, verse 12 then I turned to see the voice that spake with me, and being turned and so on, all this happens on the LORD'S day, which is the Sabbath.

You do not want to see it that way because you know if you do then you will have to acknowledge that the Sabbath day is not done away with.