sabbath

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SUNDOWNSAM

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The works of Abraham justified him "in what sense?"

*Remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
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The evidence of faith in the Epistle of James materializes when faith wrought works and verse 24 states, ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Continue reading on Rahab the harlot who was justified by works. This has nothing to do with the law because according to Romans 3:28 it clearly states, for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. With this being said, faith wrought works through obedience and this passage makes it clear that faith produces.
 

stillness

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Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
What are you all talking about? If the Lord returned, would you be in the first Resurrection? Have you entered into rest with Christ by learning of Him? Lets be honest: you and i are not there. Why? Because we have not suffered with Him. Instead of arguing among yourselvelves lets accep our sentence of death. "That we should not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead."
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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You asked if I believed in Replacement Theology. I showed you what I believe. You didn't refute it.

Yes. Rest in Christ has replaced working at the law.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


That better Hope being Rest in Christ and RECEIVING Righteousness, Salvation, Sanctification as Gods Gift.

Rather than working at the law and attempting to earn blessing from God, or even worse calling it "obedience" to God.


You said to keep it brief. That was pretty brief. Is it wrong or is it scriptural?
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In respond to your above post...

If the law made nothing perfect, is the law perfect? Please answer Yes or No.

For you to state rather than working at the law and attempting to earn blessing from God, or even worse calling it "obedience" to God tells me you are interpreting the Scriptures to fit your distorted view. Therefore, you need to take the Scriptures and put it aside because your distorted view is not Scriptural and you are not teaching Scriptural truth.

Even trough I can show you many Scriptural verses that talks about blessings by being obedient to God's commandment, I will give you Psalms 1, bless is the man who delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditates day and night (verse 2) and verse 1 tells us it is referring to is a walk, this is what God is saying which refutes your ignominious statement. It is not about us trying to walk to get a blessing and no one is saying that and for you to add even worse calling it obedience to God tells me that you are lacking in common sense or are slow-witted.

The dumb statement you just made not only lacks the power of speech, but one can conclude that you are not obedient to the commandment of loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. With all due respect, what I wrote might sound harsh, but under no circumstances am I trying to belittle you, I am just shock that you made such a preposterous statement.

THINK BEFORE YOU POST and my response tells you that you need to allow the Spirit of God to give you an understanding of the Scriptures what God made clear when he first spoke instead of trying to interpret the Scriptures to fit your distorted view.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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You asked if I believed in Replacement Theology. I showed you what I believe. You didn't refute it
Yes. Rest in Christ has replaced working at the law.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


That better Hope being Rest in Christ and RECEIVING Righteousness, Salvation, Sanctification as Gods Gift.

Rather than working at the law and attempting to earn blessing from God, or even worse calling it "obedience" to God.


You said to keep it brief. That was pretty brief. Is it wrong or is it scriptural?
--------------------------------
In response to you post...

You said that the law made nothing perfect, but if you read the Epistle of James, it gives us examples on how faith wrought with work and that by works faith is made perfect, stating it in a form of a question so that one can see the truth of God's word what God made clear when he first spoke. Therefore, by observing the Sabbath faith is also made perfect and that is how the faith of a man is justified, not only by faith, which is what James is saying, how can one say they have faith if they cannot justify that faith. Faith is made perfect through works, and that is how a man's faith is justified.

Remember that the law of the LORD is perfect and that our faith is made perfect in our obedience to the law of God!

Question, are you opposed to removing the law of God from the schools, yes or no? Please respond with why yes or no.
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
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Whispered,

You have a question directed to you in post #731.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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"anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, e just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience." - Hebrews 4:10-11

Hey, @Grandpa. I'm pretty sure the passage is saying their problem was their disobedience to the word of God, not their obedience to the word of God. Their disobedience was why they could not enter into Sabbath rest. The example I am not to follow is their disobedience to the word of God.
That's the legalist version. Thinking that their work equals obedience to God. But here's the real version;

Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Their problem was their UNBELIEF. The same with all people who continue to work at the law and pretend that is obedience to God.

The Lord Jesus gives us rest from our work at the law, but not if you don't believe in Him.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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In response to you post...

You said that the law made nothing perfect, but if you read the Epistle of James, it gives us examples on how faith wrought with work and that by works faith is made perfect, stating it in a form of a question so that one can see the truth of God's word what God made clear when he first spoke. Therefore, by observing the Sabbath faith is also made perfect and that is how the faith of a man is justified, not only by faith, which is what James is saying, how can one say they have faith if they cannot justify that faith. Faith is made perfect through works, and that is how a man's faith is justified.

Remember that the law of the LORD is perfect and that our faith is made perfect in our obedience to the law of God!

Question, are you opposed to removing the law of God from the schools, yes or no? Please respond with why yes or no.
The Law of God is not the 10 commandments. Once you understand that you will be broken free from your circular reasoning.

But in reference to the 10 commandments, no, they should not be removed from schools.

The law is what brings a person to Christ.

Once they understand the True Requirements of the Law and the impossibility of doing it themselves they will ask the One who can give that Help. If they ever ask for understanding.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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In respond to your above post...

If the law made nothing perfect, is the law perfect? Please answer Yes or No.

For you to state rather than working at the law and attempting to earn blessing from God, or even worse calling it "obedience" to God tells me you are interpreting the Scriptures to fit your distorted view. Therefore, you need to take the Scriptures and put it aside because your distorted view is not Scriptural and you are not teaching Scriptural truth.

Even trough I can show you many Scriptural verses that talks about blessings by being obedient to God's commandment, I will give you Psalms 1, bless is the man who delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditates day and night (verse 2) and verse 1 tells us it is referring to is a walk, this is what God is saying which refutes your ignominious statement. It is not about us trying to walk to get a blessing and no one is saying that and for you to add even worse calling it obedience to God tells me that you are lacking in common sense or are slow-witted.

The dumb statement you just made not only lacks the power of speech, but one can conclude that you are not obedient to the commandment of loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. With all due respect, what I wrote might sound harsh, but under no circumstances am I trying to belittle you, I am just shock that you made such a preposterous statement.

THINK BEFORE YOU POST and my response tells you that you need to allow the Spirit of God to give you an understanding of the Scriptures what God made clear when he first spoke instead of trying to interpret the Scriptures to fit your distorted view.
Your problem, and every legalist and judaizer before you, is that you CONFUSE the 10 commandments with the Law of the Lord.

The legalist and the judaizer PURPOSELY confuse the 10 commandments calling it the "Law of God" which it is NOT.

2 Corinthians 3:7-8
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?


The 10 commandments are the Ministration of Condemnation and Death. Do you think someone would really be delighting in the ministration of death? Would it be really great to meditate on this condemnation and death both day and night?

No, OF COURSE NOT.

That is because the Law of the Lord is LIFE and Righteousness. Gods Law is Love and Joy and Peace. That is what the blessed of God delights in. That is what is meditated on day and night. How God GIVES these things as His Gift.


But the confused legalist and judaizer cannot understand. They still think their work at the 10 commandments is obedience to God.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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That's the legalist version. Thinking that their work equals obedience to God. But here's the real version;

Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Their problem was their UNBELIEF. The same with all people who continue to work at the law and pretend that is obedience to God.

The Lord Jesus gives us rest from our work at the law, but not if you don't believe in Him.
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Verse 10 is telling us that the man who believes in Yeshua has entered into his rest, meaning he is resting in a perfect work of redemption and it has nothing to do with removing the Sabbath day and nowhere in this passage does it say that the specific day God gave is done away with and if it does show me where. So it is a better rest because believers are resting in a perfect work of redemption and not a perfect work of creation, but that does not remove the Sabbath.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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Dec 2, 2019
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The Law of God is not the 10 commandments. Once you understand that you will be broken free from your circular reasoning.

But in reference to the 10 commandments, no, they should not be removed from schools.

The law is what brings a person to Christ.

Once they understand the True Requirements of the Law and the impossibility of doing it themselves they will ask the One who can give that Help. If they ever ask for understanding.
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You say that they should not be removed from school, but you removed them out of the Scriptures.

Let me tell you about this rest you are talking about in your response to Judge... Hebrews4:10 is telling us that the man who believes in Yeshua has entered into his rest, meaning he is resting in a perfect work of redemption and it has nothing to do with removing the Sabbath day and nowhere in this passage does it say that the specific day God gave is done away with and if it does show me where. So it is a better rest because believers are resting in a perfect work of redemption and not in a perfect work of creation, but that does not remove the Sabbath.
 

SUNDOWNSAM

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Dec 2, 2019
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Your problem, and every legalist and judaizer before you, is that you CONFUSE the 10 commandments with the Law of the Lord.

The legalist and the judaizer PURPOSELY confuse the 10 commandments calling it the "Law of God" which it is NOT.

2 Corinthians 3:7-8
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?


The 10 commandments are the Ministration of Condemnation and Death. Do you think someone would really be delighting in the ministration of death? Would it be really great to meditate on this condemnation and death both day and night?

No, OF COURSE NOT.

That is because the Law of the Lord is LIFE and Righteousness. Gods Law is Love and Joy and Peace. That is what the blessed of God delights in. That is what is meditated on day and night. How God GIVES these things as His Gift.


But the confused legalist and judaizer cannot understand. They still think their work at the 10 commandments is obedience to God.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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The laws of sacrifice is fulfilled in Yeshua once and for all, therefore, man does not have to sacrifice animals.

Show me were in the Scriptures does it say that Yeshua done away with the Sabbath. Remember, he came to do that which he heard from his Father and nowhere in the Scriptures did Yeshua hear from his Father to do away with the Sabbath day.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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lawton ok
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The laws of sacrifice is fulfilled in Yeshua once and for all, therefore, man does not have to sacrifice animals.

Show me were in the Scriptures does it say that Yeshua done away with the Sabbath. Remember, he came to do that which he heard from his Father and nowhere in the Scriptures did Yeshua hear from his Father to do away with the Sabbath day.
Try reading the book of Hebrews and learn how the new covenant surpasses the old.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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The laws of sacrifice is fulfilled in Yeshua once and for all, therefore, man does not have to sacrifice animals.

Show me were in the Scriptures does it say that Yeshua done away with the Sabbath. Remember, he came to do that which he heard from his Father and nowhere in the Scriptures did Yeshua hear from his Father to do away with the Sabbath day.
Which Sabbath?

The daily, hourly sabbath called today we enter into when we do mix faith in what we do hear? Or the ceremonial a shadow of the Hebrew 4 Sabbath..?
 

Judges1318

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Nov 16, 2019
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That's the legalist version. Thinking that their work equals obedience to God. But here's the real version;

Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Their problem was their UNBELIEF. The same with all people who continue to work at the law and pretend that is obedience to God.

The Lord Jesus gives us rest from our work at the law, but not if you don't believe in Him.
So if I love my neighbor as myself (Leviticus 19:18) I am working at the law and I am going to hell?
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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Dont confuse "The work of God." with your own understanding of the comandment.
PSALM 78 [7] That they might set their hope in God, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:[8] And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.[9] The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.[10] THEY KEPT NOT THE COVENANT OF GOD, AND REFUSED TO WALK IN HIS LAW;[11] AND FORGAT HIS WORKS, and his wonders that he had shewed them.

No confusion here
 

Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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Your problem, and every legalist and judaizer before you, is that you CONFUSE the 10 commandments with the Law of the Lord.
I cant figure why those people who wish to make Gods law void call those who wish to keep Gods law legalist. I ant imagine standing before the Lord saying "save me Lord im an illegalist, i did nothing you commanded me to do". Good luck with that
 

Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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But the confused legalist and judaizer cannot understand. They still think their work at the 10 commandments is obedience to God.
Yeah. We must obey God and keep His commandments

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

So why was Abraham observing to keep Gods 10 commandments? He heard and obeyed Gods "voice"

DEUT. 27 [8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly. [9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God . [10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

The voice...The 10 commandments. No doubt about it

ZEPHANIAH 3 [1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city! [2] SHE OBEYED NOT THE VOICE; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God. [3] Her princes within her are ROARING LIONS; her judges are evening WOLVES; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow. [4] Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, THEY HAVE DONE VIOLENCE TO THE LAW.

Youll find those lions and wolves mentioned in the new covenant scriptures. The bad guys

JOHN 10 [27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Also Gods sheep shall also hear His “voice”.

HEBREWS 4 [6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, harden not your hearts.

Was this prophecied to happen?

DEUTERONOMY 4 [26] I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. [27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. [28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. [29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. [30] When thou art in TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee, even in THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be OBEDIENT UNTO HIS VOICE; [31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Yup
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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The Sabbath day is of the LORD, it was the specific day that the LORD said to remember and to keep holy, and I am sure that you would agree with me that the Sabbath is the LORD's day from the Ten Commandment perspective. What the Apostle John is saying on the LORD'S day (the Sabbath day) while in the Isle that is called Patmos, I was in the Spirit and I heard a voice like a trumpet behind me, verse 12 then I turned to see the voice that spake with me, and being turned and so on, all this happens on the LORD'S day, which is the Sabbath.

You do not want to see it that way because you know if you do then you will have to acknowledge that the Sabbath day is not done away with.
I know we are to keep Gods sabbath day. However, i just proved through scripture that the "Lords Day" found in Revelations is truly the Day of the Lord. Sorry bout that.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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That's the legalist version. Thinking that their work equals obedience to God. But here's the real version;

Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
HEBREWS 4 [9] THERE REMAINETH THEREFORE A REST to the people of God.[10] For HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, he also hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Well...Ya see what it says. Now lets see how God rested from His work

HEBREWS 4 [4] For he spake in a certain place of THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works

Yup. God rested the 7th day. The sabbath.