SALVATION BASED ON FAITH
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Are you implying we need not to have faith to be given grace? Or that grace comes first then faith?
Sorry to ask i have been seeing multiple people pushing different things so im asking to see what you mean.
Ephesians 2:8 The Message (MSG)
7-10 Now God has us where he wants us, with all the time in this world and the next to shower grace and kindness upon us in Christ Jesus. Saving is all his idea, and all his work. All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It’s God’s gift from start to finish!
Sorry to ask i have been seeing multiple people pushing different things so im asking to see what you mean.
Ephesians 2:8 The Message (MSG)
7-10 Now God has us where he wants us, with all the time in this world and the next to shower grace and kindness upon us in Christ Jesus. Saving is all his idea, and all his work. All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It’s God’s gift from start to finish!
Yes, but it's not me, it's God through the Scriptures that is saying it, there is nothing we can do to receive grace, when we become born again God makes us alive from being died in sins, being blind to the Gospel of God/His kingdom, He causes us to be born again, now we can see the kingdom and a need to repent, have faith, believe/receive. It all happens at once, but it is God's initial work with our response in faith, which through that faith with the Spirit working in us, we''ll receive our glorified bodies.
Philippians 2:12-12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."
Lots of people quote verse 12 saying that you need to work out you salvation, not for but out, it's still works, but 13 tell us who is really behind our salvation, we have a responsibility to work our or work with God in our salvation.
It's all God John 1:12-13 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Does that help, if not let me know and what it is that you're not understanding.
John 3:21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Philippians 2:12-12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."
Lots of people quote verse 12 saying that you need to work out you salvation, not for but out, it's still works, but 13 tell us who is really behind our salvation, we have a responsibility to work our or work with God in our salvation.
It's all God John 1:12-13 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Does that help, if not let me know and what it is that you're not understanding.
John 3:21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Hi Peter,
Sorry to be posting again so soon, but I'm going down the list of comments, otherwise I would have added this with the other post.
The bible calls the law a tutor. It leads us to Christ by showing us our sin, but I don't think I'd call it the gatekeeper. In your analogy, maybe the Holy Spirit would be abetter choice.
The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and He's the one that leads us by faith to walk with Jesus. And the transforming power comes from the Holy Spirit as well.
Sorry to be posting again so soon, but I'm going down the list of comments, otherwise I would have added this with the other post.
The bible calls the law a tutor. It leads us to Christ by showing us our sin, but I don't think I'd call it the gatekeeper. In your analogy, maybe the Holy Spirit would be abetter choice.
The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and He's the one that leads us by faith to walk with Jesus. And the transforming power comes from the Holy Spirit as well.
Thanks for asking, Magenta!
I absolutely love it and I'm learning things I've skipped over along the way. There's just nothing like actually studying God's word.
I've read it multiple times and have been in a few studies, but this one has us doing an hour of study each day with questions, cross references, looking at greek and hebrew. We do lists of key words. It makes your brain hurt, but in a good way!.
Did I say I love it?
I absolutely love it and I'm learning things I've skipped over along the way. There's just nothing like actually studying God's word.
I've read it multiple times and have been in a few studies, but this one has us doing an hour of study each day with questions, cross references, looking at greek and hebrew. We do lists of key words. It makes your brain hurt, but in a good way!.
Did I say I love it? 
I agree with you, but what I was thinking about is how people rebel against the conviction
of sin and the sense of failure.
We are called to walk in love and to let the Holy Spirit dwell in us and to be pure.
So many feel this is alien to them, yet to Paul and the apostles it was their life.
Paul says we are not under condemnation because we walk in the Spirit.
He explains the law was written for sinners because it convicts them.
So the law only has value ultimately in identifying sin, rather than guiding us into
love and expressing it. This therefore means the law is a gatekeeper rather than
a guide because good works and service are our main focus and calling.
It also puts into context why the overemphasis on grace is error, because it does
not address the sinful behaviour people are trapped in and the promise of freedom
and release that comes with the cross.
of sin and the sense of failure.
We are called to walk in love and to let the Holy Spirit dwell in us and to be pure.
So many feel this is alien to them, yet to Paul and the apostles it was their life.
Paul says we are not under condemnation because we walk in the Spirit.
He explains the law was written for sinners because it convicts them.
So the law only has value ultimately in identifying sin, rather than guiding us into
love and expressing it. This therefore means the law is a gatekeeper rather than
a guide because good works and service are our main focus and calling.
It also puts into context why the overemphasis on grace is error, because it does
not address the sinful behaviour people are trapped in and the promise of freedom
and release that comes with the cross.
Sully - so you are against sorrow for sin, and regard this as misery.
I wonder if you have ever grieved for anyone in your life. Some have lived into their 30's and
this is the case. It is all just one happy show. I wish you well but you have not begun to
comprehend what the cross is, its brutality and the destruction sin brings.
Jesus talks about building ones house upon sand, and when the storms come its foundations
get washed away and it collapses. I have seen this happen to people, and know the devestation
left behind. If you do not know these deep valleys I pray your faith will stand when they come
upon you, as they do with all of us.
And my friend, as with the depths of despair and grief, there are also the heights of greatest joy
and victory, rejoicing with the King. To know one you need to understand and know the other.
God bless you.
I wonder if you have ever grieved for anyone in your life. Some have lived into their 30's and
this is the case. It is all just one happy show. I wish you well but you have not begun to
comprehend what the cross is, its brutality and the destruction sin brings.
Jesus talks about building ones house upon sand, and when the storms come its foundations
get washed away and it collapses. I have seen this happen to people, and know the devestation
left behind. If you do not know these deep valleys I pray your faith will stand when they come
upon you, as they do with all of us.
And my friend, as with the depths of despair and grief, there are also the heights of greatest joy
and victory, rejoicing with the King. To know one you need to understand and know the other.
God bless you.
First, by properly rightly dividing the word of truth, we need to be reminded of James' audience. Second, notice Abraham's faith in what God was going to do through him was not made complete until he offered up Isaac as a sacrifice.
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
His faith was not fulfilled until he later proved it through a work. Simple faith in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is not a work. It's believing in the work that Jesus did on the cross. Our faith cannot justify. The faith of Christ is what justifies a man.
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
His faith was not fulfilled until he later proved it through a work. Simple faith in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is not a work. It's believing in the work that Jesus did on the cross. Our faith cannot justify. The faith of Christ is what justifies a man.
Who feel this is alien to them? All would agree that this is to be the consequence of our God given salvation.,
No, he says we are not under condemnation because we are in Christ Jesus, and the result is that we walk after the Spirit
.
That was its purpose
But the law teaches us to love God with heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbour as ourselves. Does that not guide us into love and cause us to express it? If it is used rightly it is very useful, but only AFTER we are saved..
T The law is our guide and teacher, our pedagogue. First it leads us to Christ by showing us our sin. Then it is our guide as to how we should live. Where we use it wrongly is when we believe we can be saved by it.
I actually do not believe you understand what the grace of God is. It is God acting in grace. To suggest we can overemphasise it is nonsense, if not blasphemous. It is God acting in us and through us by His grace (unmerited favour) that brings us to salvation and then enables us to walk in the Spirit. ALL that we do that is good is of grace.
No, he says we are not under condemnation because we are in Christ Jesus, and the result is that we walk after the Spirit
.
That was its purpose
But the law teaches us to love God with heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbour as ourselves. Does that not guide us into love and cause us to express it? If it is used rightly it is very useful, but only AFTER we are saved..
T The law is our guide and teacher, our pedagogue. First it leads us to Christ by showing us our sin. Then it is our guide as to how we should live. Where we use it wrongly is when we believe we can be saved by it.
I actually do not believe you understand what the grace of God is. It is God acting in grace. To suggest we can overemphasise it is nonsense, if not blasphemous. It is God acting in us and through us by His grace (unmerited favour) that brings us to salvation and then enables us to walk in the Spirit. ALL that we do that is good is of grace.
James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
*For James, "faith only" = empty profession of faith, dead faith, not genuine faith.
*For James, "faith only" = empty profession of faith, dead faith, not genuine faith.
You know I don't believe in the theory that James wrote a book for the future Jews in some future 1,000 year reign. I do believe that he wrote it to Jewish audience and thus he would be speaking in "Jewish terms". James was one of the first books written after the resurrection.
I too believe that it is by the faith of Christ that we are saved - by what He has done. Gal. 2:20 I also believe that knowing His work brings faith too and Paul said it is from faith to faith Romans 1:16-17. Christ's faith brought faith.
It's in the hearing of Crist Himself that brings faith but it is all His work.
Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
I agree that there is a completeness that comes with the final fruit of already having faith. Some translations call it faith is "perfected" or comes to it's end result. I don't believe that Abraham created his faith by his actions - I believe that it revealed his faith. These are different to me. He is not trying to prove something - he is revealing what is already there. In other words - his acts do not make faith - they simply reveal that it is there.
Jesus said that it was a "work" to believe in Him.
John 6:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
I too believe that it is by the faith of Christ that we are saved - by what He has done. Gal. 2:20 I also believe that knowing His work brings faith too and Paul said it is from faith to faith Romans 1:16-17. Christ's faith brought faith.
It's in the hearing of Crist Himself that brings faith but it is all His work.
Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
I agree that there is a completeness that comes with the final fruit of already having faith. Some translations call it faith is "perfected" or comes to it's end result. I don't believe that Abraham created his faith by his actions - I believe that it revealed his faith. These are different to me. He is not trying to prove something - he is revealing what is already there. In other words - his acts do not make faith - they simply reveal that it is there.
Jesus said that it was a "work" to believe in Him.
John 6:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.