SALVATION BASED ON FAITH
- Thread starter Desertsrose
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Jesus is speaking concerning the Jews during the tribulation. Notice, if the time was not shortened, no flesh would be saved. Flesh, meaning no one would be able to physically survive this time period if it was longer.
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
There is a problem in this line of reasoning.
God gave me eyes to see, a brain to think, ears to hear, so everything I do is a gift
from God.
I have argued our response to God is legitimate response on our part, but in a sense
the start is just that.
If we accept we are born again, and then gain light to our soul, in the parable of the
seed and the sower, if we do not feed or open up our hearts properly or put the right
priniciples into practice our faith will die.
So to accept salvation is not a choice, then we can choose to leave or not apply things
that continue us in life. If we cannot do this then this is a prison camp with no
reprieve, one we are set up for and will go along with no matter what.
This seems to mitigate against the Lords heart and His ways of dealing with man throughout
scripture. Rather we choose all the way along, and like a good friend, He tests we have really
learnt what we need to learn.
I can see this theology of not choice to be saved, but the ability to walk away, puts the
requirement for us to respond and walk which some might argue is maintaining our salvation
through our efforts. But unless there is no will involved, what is salvation other than a
factory production line, and justice a farce for show, when all along God chooses.
The cross is saying something very different. Astounding love to purchase a people unto His
will and calling. Maybe choice along the way is always nuanced, and though at the start dark
it still is a legitimate choice. So the thief on the cross could exercise faith as far as he could
see, and it be counted as faith within the context of where he was and what was happening.
God gave me eyes to see, a brain to think, ears to hear, so everything I do is a gift
from God.
I have argued our response to God is legitimate response on our part, but in a sense
the start is just that.
If we accept we are born again, and then gain light to our soul, in the parable of the
seed and the sower, if we do not feed or open up our hearts properly or put the right
priniciples into practice our faith will die.
So to accept salvation is not a choice, then we can choose to leave or not apply things
that continue us in life. If we cannot do this then this is a prison camp with no
reprieve, one we are set up for and will go along with no matter what.
This seems to mitigate against the Lords heart and His ways of dealing with man throughout
scripture. Rather we choose all the way along, and like a good friend, He tests we have really
learnt what we need to learn.
I can see this theology of not choice to be saved, but the ability to walk away, puts the
requirement for us to respond and walk which some might argue is maintaining our salvation
through our efforts. But unless there is no will involved, what is salvation other than a
factory production line, and justice a farce for show, when all along God chooses.
The cross is saying something very different. Astounding love to purchase a people unto His
will and calling. Maybe choice along the way is always nuanced, and though at the start dark
it still is a legitimate choice. So the thief on the cross could exercise faith as far as he could
see, and it be counted as faith within the context of where he was and what was happening.
[h=1]Ephesians 2:8-9New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Ok. So it is by Grace we have been saved through faith, (COMMA) and THAT (so what is the THAT?) not of yourselves. The THAT is the faith he says is the gift of God. If it wasn't given to us, then WE COULD BOAST! That's what Paul goes on to say. Isn't it?[/FONT]
Ok. So it is by Grace we have been saved through faith, (COMMA) and THAT (so what is the THAT?) not of yourselves. The THAT is the faith he says is the gift of God. If it wasn't given to us, then WE COULD BOAST! That's what Paul goes on to say. Isn't it?[/FONT]
If people don't understand the sacrifice system then they won't understand salvation. Belief in Jesus is significant because first, He spoke the words for life. Secondly, He is the only sacrifice that could be acceptable enough to cover the atonement sacrifice required by God. This is what restores us to God as His workers. Adam was made to work for God; sin separated him (and us); Christ's sacrifice restored us; now we can once again work for God. Restoration is needed to be "rehired" to be His employees.
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
How about salvation based upon Christ?
Jesus laid aside His glory in heaven which was His before the foundation of the world to die a lowly death to redeem mankind. Jesus did the only thing possible to sate Gods wrath for mankind. Jesus freely gives redemption to all who ask.
The only thing God requires of us is that we ask and even this is too difficult for some.
They turn back from the Light because their deeds evil and their hearts desire darkness.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
How about salvation based upon Christ?
Jesus laid aside His glory in heaven which was His before the foundation of the world to die a lowly death to redeem mankind. Jesus did the only thing possible to sate Gods wrath for mankind. Jesus freely gives redemption to all who ask.
The only thing God requires of us is that we ask and even this is too difficult for some.
They turn back from the Light because their deeds evil and their hearts desire darkness.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Matthew 24 is talking about when the armies are surrounding Jerusalem in 70 AD and the wh9ole city was destroyed. Interesting fact from Josephus - not one Christian was killed in that siege - they remembered Jesus words and fled.
We can take scriptures from all over without the context and thus we can make scriptures say anything we want.
I'll give you an example.
Let's say I was a sinless perfectionists in the flesh believer. I tell people if they have sinned - they are blotted out of God's book, then they are not saved nor ever will be. Here is my proof text.
Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Then I would proceed to apply some spiritual witchcraft on you by saying " This is the word of God - how can you not believe the word of God. If you take away the word of God you are doomed."
This is a sign of the last day apostasy. You have itching ears and just want to do what you want......and other religious nonsense like that.
We can take scriptures from all over without the context and thus we can make scriptures say anything we want.
I'll give you an example.
Let's say I was a sinless perfectionists in the flesh believer. I tell people if they have sinned - they are blotted out of God's book, then they are not saved nor ever will be. Here is my proof text.
Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Then I would proceed to apply some spiritual witchcraft on you by saying " This is the word of God - how can you not believe the word of God. If you take away the word of God you are doomed."
This is a sign of the last day apostasy. You have itching ears and just want to do what you want......and other religious nonsense like that.
Agreed. But it doesn't really answer the question. WHY did you respond to the Gospel, to Jesus Christ.
You heard the Gospel, you responded. Why? Where did you get the faith to believe what you heard?
I'm not trying to have a "gotcha" moment. I'm truly asking where that faith came from that made you say "yes! I believe Jesus is God in the flesh, and He died for my sin, and rose to life again!"
Where did the faith come from that YOU believed and responded?
You heard the Gospel, you responded. Why? Where did you get the faith to believe what you heard?
I'm not trying to have a "gotcha" moment. I'm truly asking where that faith came from that made you say "yes! I believe Jesus is God in the flesh, and He died for my sin, and rose to life again!"
Where did the faith come from that YOU believed and responded?