Salvation is for the Whole World

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Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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You got that from that verse? It says nothing like that. The question was a simple one and the answer was direct.
The verse says that to truly believe is only given to someone from a work of God's.
You've added to it in a way that it can't support to try to force it into saying what you want it to say.
You need to read the prior verse for context.
John 6:28 (KJV)

28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
I suggest you call for an appointment with your optometrist , if you cannot see His reply to their question.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Acts 16:
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Belief is the gift. If someone believes, it is only because they have already become saved/born again. The "shall be saved" refers
to being saved from God's wrath on the last day not of being saved in this life.

[1Co 5:5 KJV] 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
No one can believe from the heart until saved.

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

[Rom 3:10-11 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The "whosoever" are the elect, all are not included in the "whosoever". True belief can only come as a fruit of the Spirit.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Belief is a gift. "after that ye believed" is in the aorist tense.

[Eph 1:11 KJV] 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
I don't exactly follow your point with the above verse, but this should answer it:

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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I believe you are wrong because Scriptures uphold the fact that faith is a requirement for salvation,
and your equation has people being saved when they neither believe in God nor have any faith in
His plan of salvation for those who believe on the shed righteous blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.



Hebrews 11:6
:)

Sorry that you disagree with me, but it does not change the results of my studies, as I attempt to harmonize the scriptures.

Spiritual faith comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as a fruit of his. However spiritual faith is not the cause of a person's eternal inheritance, although, exercising our spiritual faith is necessary to please God, and also brings a deliverance (salvation) to his born again children who exercise it in their daily lives. Salvation=deliverance, according to Greek translation.

Most of God's children reference all of the salvations scriptures to eternal deliverance, which tends to teach them that their eternal deliverance is gained by their works.

The child of God, by his good works of exercising his faith, gaines him deliverance, as he sojourns here on earth.

I hope you can understand this. It is the only way that the scriptures will harmonize to include a deliverance gained by the good works of the child of God.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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You need to read the prior verse for context.
John 6:28 (KJV)

28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
I suggest you call for an appointment with your optometrist , if you cannot see His reply to their question.
And you should call for an appointment with your vascular neurologist if you are unable to associate verse 28 to verse 29. In verse
28 they ask what they might do to work the works of God. Jesus both taught and corrected them in verse 29 that what
they sought to do could only be done by God.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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You don't understand this verse - that should someone have a true belief in Christ, it was by God's work alone that they do? Why is that so difficult to understand and/or accept?

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I don't know what you're not understanding, faith IS NOT a WORK. Period, end of the story. Over.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Is being born again the same as being saved?

John 3=Ephesians 2?
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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All souls belong to God. He is the author and giver and sustainer of life. This is not to say that all are
His children. Obviously all are not His children. Some are children of wrath, those who have refused
God's offer of salvation through the forgiveness Christ's shed righteous blood provided for all.
Those who believe by grace through faith have the right to call themselves God's children.


God is drawing all men to Him. Those who resist do so because they love their sin.


Romans 8:15-16
:)

You can't get any more truth than that comment. Sums up the whole thread.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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I don't know what you're not understanding, faith IS NOT a WORK. Period, end of the story. Over.
Oh I understand perfectly, you are just wrong.

It is not a work only if it comes as a gift. Per the verse, God did/does all of the work. If it is God's work as the verse says it is, and yet you do not believe that it is, then that work must be transferred to yourself to do it, thus making the manufacturing of your faith your work.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Then you must be among the majority of the lost sheep of Israel, who God has blinded to see the truths of the gospel, until you repent of your false doctrine of eternal salvation by works. Paul prayed for those, like yourself, in Rom 10:1-3.
You just keep changing the goalposts with each reply.

Bottom line, every human born, those who end up Saved, those who don't, while we were ALL UNSAVED we could understand that God is real by the way Nature was displayed on each Continent, each own Beauty of Creation. He Arrayed it like a puzzle disconnected down the middle. And SINNERS can see this and know God is real and they Need God.

To be able to acknowledge God, means, to be able to Choose do I believe or don't that God is Real?
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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The Word says I'm not. I broke it down for you. You can stick with your dogma, or what the Word says. I know what I'm going with.
And what you broke it down into was incorrect and bore no semblance whatsoever to the verse in question. If you use that same technique/insight to understand the Bible, the result for you will be to find yourself firmly planted under works, law and not grace.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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Belief is the gift. If someone believes, it is only because they have already become saved/born again. The "shall be saved" refers
to being saved from God's wrath on the last day not of being saved in this life.

[1Co 5:5 KJV] 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.



No one can believe from the heart until saved.

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

[Rom 3:10-11 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.



The "whosoever" are the elect, all are not included in the "whosoever". True belief can only come as a fruit of the Spirit.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,



Belief is a gift. "after that ye believed" is in the aorist tense.

[Eph 1:11 KJV] 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:



I don't exactly follow your point with the above verse, but this should answer it:

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Calvinists are gonna see Calvinism. For now.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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LOL, yes indeed!! There's a point that we both can agree on! Praise God!!

Still, I am confused that staunch Calvinists, like yourself(?), contend that our Salvation and everything accompanying it, is of God and we can contribute nothing?

So how can one, according to your beliefs, contribute to things like increasing Faith, being obedient (since you've several times said that there are/were believers living in disobedience), and Spiritual growth? You say that God does it ALL, right... so what can mankind do, if anything? I would think that we can't even be submissive to God by Calvinist doctrine?

I apologise in advance for the long post, but don't know how to answer your question otherwise.


I do not claim to follow Calvin's doctrine. I have never read any of his writings, or any other man.s writings about the scriptures, except I do reference Strong's concordance. I use only the inspired scriptures contained in the KJV, believing that scriptures prove themselves, when compared to each other, without omitting any of them.

Salvation=deliverance, saved=delivered, and save=deliver, according to Strong's concordance.

This misunderstanding of the salvation scriptures, and having them all to reference eternal salvation tends to teach them that eternal deliverance is achieved by doing good works. Most of the well intended children of God fall into this misunderstanding. They are known in the scriptures as "the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

Spiritual Israel is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (rev 5:9). Most of spiritual Israel turned away from God and started worshiping idols (themselves and their works [ the old law of Moses} ), however God left in the midst of them a remnant of Israel that shall do no iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth, for they shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid (Zeph 3:11-13).

The spiritually born again man can do many things, such as accepting Christ, repenting, confessing, praying, loving each other, and so forth. which are all good works that can save (deliver) them as they sojourn here on earth.

When a born again child of God commits a sin, they separate themselves from their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent. however, they do not lose their eternal inheritance.

My statement may cause more questions, if so, ask, and I will attempt to answer, with scripture, the best that I can.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Belief is the gift. If someone believes, it is only because they have already become saved/born again. The "shall be saved" refers
to being saved from God's wrath on the last day not of being saved in this life.

You are right on with most of your comments, but this one seems to contradict itself.

The first sentence, I agree with. It is your second sentence, that I question.

If the person is already born again, which I agree that he is, he is already saved (delivered) from God's wrath on the last day.

The "shall be saved" (delivered from his guilt, by following God's commandments, as he sojourns here on earth.)
 
Dec 21, 2020
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I do not claim to follow Calvin's doctrine. I have never read any of his writings, or any other man.s writings about the scriptures, except I do reference Strong's concordance. I use only the inspired scriptures contained in the KJV, believing that scriptures prove themselves, when compared to each other, without omitting any of them.
You have acknowledged that your denomination is "Primitive Baptist."

The Primitive Baptists are strict Calvinists who believe that only those elected by God will be saved.
^^^ https://www.britannica.com/topic/Primitive-Baptists ^^^

Primitive Baptists – also known as Hard Shell Baptists, Foot Washing Baptists or Old School Baptists – are conservative Baptists adhering to a degree of Calvinist beliefs who coalesced out of the controversy among Baptists in the early 19th century over the appropriateness of mission boards, tract societies, and temperance societies.[1][2] The adjective "primitive" in the name is used in the sense of "original".[1]
^^^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_Baptists ^^^

Primitive Baptists are strongly Calvinistic, but they do not apply that term to themselves, preferring to be identified as predestinarian. Primitive Baptists are to be distinguished from Missionary Baptists, General Baptists, and Southern Baptists, although they all share a common lineage.
^^^ https://www.gotquestions.org/Primitive-Baptists.html ^^^

Primitive Baptists do not like the term Calvinism, but their statement of beliefs is Calvinistic.
^^^ https://bethelpb.org/about-primitive-baptists/ ^^^
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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No, no they didn't. That's just the point, the Bible doesn't teach what you are pushing.

You need more studying.

John 6:60 - Many, therefore, of his disciples, when they heard this, said, This is an hard saying, who can hear it?
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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And you should call for an appointment with your vascular neurologist if you are unable to associate verse 28 to verse 29. In verse
28 they ask what they might do to work the works of God. Jesus both taught and corrected them in verse 29 that what
they sought to do could only be done by God.
One more question. Did Adam and Eve have any choice while in the garden. It seems God gave them a choice. I could be wrong, but it looks like satan had a choice as an angel while in Heaven. If not, then it appears God didn’t allow them to Believe. I wonder why?