Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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Now let's stop looking from outside the box and come right in where it can be experienced fully not perceiving as defeated but of victory , in the beginning when I was in growth I learned of the spiritual cleansing not just tricking the mind in believing but in praying and fasting but importantly praying in the spirit the bonds then were being broken and I was being cleansed of all bonds and sins I committed for sin leaves a mark in the memory of the soul that is passed on to generation to generation but Christ came to give liberty that these works of Satan may be destroyed , yes there are works necesar but these works are not our own but the product of God,s promise
I believe in a gospel of not only in words but in holy spirit and power by this we know we are believers of faith in Christ believing all the gospel not just part that our minds be edified not just our prayer life but that all be balance remember the lord said the disciple must be as perfect as his master and Christ also said why do youcall me Lord and not do what I say to you ? We must then remember also be Holy for I am Holy said our Lord .
K
Some say works not necessary, but what does Jesus say:
Matthew 10:33 " But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. "
Matthew 25:45 " Then He will answer them, saying, ' Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. "
This shows that if you do not do works then you will be in a way denying Jesus, and if you do not do these works notice what verse 46 then says, " These will go to everlasting punishment. "
Matthew 10:33 " But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. "
Matthew 25:45 " Then He will answer them, saying, ' Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. "
This shows that if you do not do works then you will be in a way denying Jesus, and if you do not do these works notice what verse 46 then says, " These will go to everlasting punishment. "
L
the answer is: yes! We are to follow Christ in His obedience to the Father.
But why must you bring salvation into it?
From what I perceive, you would like to write off the salvation of those who play instruments in congregations, because you think it a sin... and then following the logic you have laid out, only those faithful to your denomination are truly saved.
Am I correct?
But why must you bring salvation into it?
From what I perceive, you would like to write off the salvation of those who play instruments in congregations, because you think it a sin... and then following the logic you have laid out, only those faithful to your denomination are truly saved.
Am I correct?
Can a Chrsitian not provide for his family yet still be saved, 1 Tin 5:8?
Can a Christian see his brethren in need yet refuse to help and still be saved, 1 Jn 3:17; Mt 25;41-46?
Can a Christian not bring forth fruit and still be saved, Jn 15:2?
Can a Christian not abound in the virtues of 2 Pet 1:5-9 yet still be saved, verse 10?
Can a Christian not speak, sing, make, give or submit thereby not be filled with the spirit, yet still be saved, Eph 5:18-21?
Can a Christian not preach the word, not do the work of an evangelist, 2 Tim 4:2,5, not obey Christ's great commission in taking the gospel to the lost, Mt 28:19,20, yet still be saved?
Can a Christian see his brethren in need yet refuse to help and still be saved, 1 Jn 3:17; Mt 25;41-46?
Can a Christian not bring forth fruit and still be saved, Jn 15:2?
Can a Christian not abound in the virtues of 2 Pet 1:5-9 yet still be saved, verse 10?
Can a Christian not speak, sing, make, give or submit thereby not be filled with the spirit, yet still be saved, Eph 5:18-21?
Can a Christian not preach the word, not do the work of an evangelist, 2 Tim 4:2,5, not obey Christ's great commission in taking the gospel to the lost, Mt 28:19,20, yet still be saved?
I cannot even get a simple "yes" or "no" answer.
Again:
Can a Chrsitian not provide for his family yet still be saved, 1 Tin 5:8?
Can a Christian see his brethren in need yet refuse to help and still be saved, 1 Jn 3:17; Mt 25;41-46?
Can a Christian not bring forth fruit and still be saved, Jn 15:2?
Can a Christian not abound in the virtues of 2 Pet 1:5-9 yet still be saved, verse 10?
Can a Christian not speak, sing, make, give or submit thereby not be filled with the spirit, yet still be saved, Eph 5:18-21?
Can a Christian not preach the word, not do the work of an evangelist, 2 Tim 4:2,5, not obey Christ's great omission in taking the gospel to the lost, Mt 28:19,20, yet still be saved?
Again:
Can a Chrsitian not provide for his family yet still be saved, 1 Tin 5:8?
Can a Christian see his brethren in need yet refuse to help and still be saved, 1 Jn 3:17; Mt 25;41-46?
Can a Christian not bring forth fruit and still be saved, Jn 15:2?
Can a Christian not abound in the virtues of 2 Pet 1:5-9 yet still be saved, verse 10?
Can a Christian not speak, sing, make, give or submit thereby not be filled with the spirit, yet still be saved, Eph 5:18-21?
Can a Christian not preach the word, not do the work of an evangelist, 2 Tim 4:2,5, not obey Christ's great omission in taking the gospel to the lost, Mt 28:19,20, yet still be saved?
such a short list. there are many more instructions and commandments than those.
can any of those people fail in any one or more of those things and still be saved? are all evangelists? are women supposed to preach?
can a mute man speak or sing?
can a disabled man, or one in prison who can not provide for his family be saved?
these two:
Can a Christian not bring forth fruit and still be saved, Jn 15:2? all will bring forth some fruit. even if silent prayer is all they can do. have you read the parable of the laborers of the field? you sound like the grumblers who worked all day for the same penny.
Can a Christian not abound in the virtues of 2 Pet 1:5-9 yet still be saved, verse 10? can a christian continue to be transformed, growing in grace and those virtues, yet lack maturity in some when he dies and still be saved?
in any case, how are you making out? lots of banked virtues and works clearly. that's awesome.
can any of those people fail in any one or more of those things and still be saved? are all evangelists? are women supposed to preach?
can a mute man speak or sing?
can a disabled man, or one in prison who can not provide for his family be saved?
these two:
Can a Christian not bring forth fruit and still be saved, Jn 15:2? all will bring forth some fruit. even if silent prayer is all they can do. have you read the parable of the laborers of the field? you sound like the grumblers who worked all day for the same penny.
Can a Christian not abound in the virtues of 2 Pet 1:5-9 yet still be saved, verse 10? can a christian continue to be transformed, growing in grace and those virtues, yet lack maturity in some when he dies and still be saved?
in any case, how are you making out? lots of banked virtues and works clearly. that's awesome.
They are YOUR works which you will be judge by:
Rom 2:6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds"
Mk 16:27 "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."
Rev 2:12,13 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."
In Rev 1 and 2 Jesus judges those churches saying "I know thy works..." Rev 2:2,9,13,19; Rev 3:1,2,8,15
Rom 2:6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds"
Mk 16:27 "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."
Rev 2:12,13 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."
In Rev 1 and 2 Jesus judges those churches saying "I know thy works..." Rev 2:2,9,13,19; Rev 3:1,2,8,15
More avoidance and bouncing around.
Again:
Can a Chrsitian not provide for his family yet still be saved, 1 Tin 5:8?
Can a Christian see his brethren in need yet refuse to help and still be saved, 1 Jn 3:17; Mt 25;41-46?
Can a Christian not bring forth fruit and still be saved, Jn 15:2?
Can a Christian not abound in the virtues of 2 Pet 1:5-9 yet still be saved, verse 10?
Can a Christian not speak, sing, make, give or submit thereby not be filled with the spirit, yet still be saved, Eph 5:18-21?
Can a Christian not preach the word, not do the work of an evangelist, 2 Tim 4:2,5, not obey Christ's great commission in taking the gospel to the lost, Mt 28:19,20, yet still be saved?
Again:
Can a Chrsitian not provide for his family yet still be saved, 1 Tin 5:8?
Can a Christian see his brethren in need yet refuse to help and still be saved, 1 Jn 3:17; Mt 25;41-46?
Can a Christian not bring forth fruit and still be saved, Jn 15:2?
Can a Christian not abound in the virtues of 2 Pet 1:5-9 yet still be saved, verse 10?
Can a Christian not speak, sing, make, give or submit thereby not be filled with the spirit, yet still be saved, Eph 5:18-21?
Can a Christian not preach the word, not do the work of an evangelist, 2 Tim 4:2,5, not obey Christ's great commission in taking the gospel to the lost, Mt 28:19,20, yet still be saved?
K
Yes because their works became their change in heart...by accepting and believing in Jesus and feeling convicted and sorry for what they did.
Thief : Asking for forgiveness in his own way by breaking down and asking Jesus not to forget him
mute paralytic: even if one can not speak they can still pray in spirit, and confess and ask for forgiveness.
Do you always speak aloud or do you some times pray or talk with out opening your mouth.
Thief : Asking for forgiveness in his own way by breaking down and asking Jesus not to forget him
mute paralytic: even if one can not speak they can still pray in spirit, and confess and ask for forgiveness.
Do you always speak aloud or do you some times pray or talk with out opening your mouth.
L
... the thief on the cross was saved, and did no works to prove his sincere faith. A profession of faith is not considered a 'work' in the Bible. That is just what some men have called it.
so salvation is possible without works. (but a person can't live in willful sin and say "I have faith", because by his works he has shown his lack of faith in God)
If we begin confusing the signs of saving faith as being the condition for saving faith, then we are erring from the Word.
why did you not respond to the rest of the post?
so salvation is possible without works. (but a person can't live in willful sin and say "I have faith", because by his works he has shown his lack of faith in God)
If we begin confusing the signs of saving faith as being the condition for saving faith, then we are erring from the Word.
why did you not respond to the rest of the post?
L
the source of our salvation is not logic, but the Word of God. (Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh)
If the Word says "saved by faith and by not works", and also says "if you have faith, then you will obey my commands", we shouldn't make any argument that contradicts either.
If the Word says "saved by faith and by not works", and also says "if you have faith, then you will obey my commands", we shouldn't make any argument that contradicts either.
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NO! You got that backwards. It makes good works conditional upon your SALVATION (past tense) having been the REAL DEAL. If you WERE NOT SAVED (past tense) then ALL of your perceived good works are "filthy rags". Good works are NOT determined by the deed, but rather by the MOTIVE. If they are NOT done out of LOVE, for the ONE whom you have surrendered to as LORD and MASTER, GOD does not see them as GOOD WORKS.
Isaiah 64:5-6 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You meet him who rejoices and does righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways. You are indeed angry, for we have sinned-- In these ways we continue; And we need to be saved.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.