Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[posthuman]

let's say unsaved Joe is lost at sea & stranded alone on a desert island and will never be seen again by any man.
a copy of the Bible is washed ashore with Him.

can Joe be saved?

I will say "no".

sucks for Joe.

what's Joe missing?
is God not present on desert islands?
Joe's got the word of God. Joe could read it and believe. Joe could love mercy and walk humbly around the island before God.
what else does God require of Joe?

alas! there are no poor to feed but Joe himself, and no nightclubs to piously avoid.

poor Joe. he's really "the least of these" isn't he?

i hope there is a God who cares about castaway Joe.

 

[SeaBass]

Our walking in good works doesn't save us.

What about one ALREADY a Christian?


For one that is ALREADY a CHristian, how do you get around verses like Eph 2:10? Can one ALREADY saved NOT walk in those preordained good works and thwart what God preordained but still being saved? Can a Christian not work to provide for his own house, deny the faith be works than an infidel yet still be sved? Can the Christan not walk in the lihgt, 1 Jn 1:7, NOT have all his sins washed away yet still be saved? Not be faithful unto death yet still be sved, Rv 2:10, NOt keep Christ's works yet still over come and be saved, Rev 2:26?

 

[dcontroversal]

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"


Works of righteousness we have done refers to works of merit.

'Washing of regneration' refers to being water baptized. Note how works of merit are CONTRASTED to the obedient work of submitting to water baptism.



"not of works" refer to works of merit. Not an obedient faith.



Abraham and David had obedient faiths.

"Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin"

Does God forgive the iniquites of those that do nothing or that that obediently do the work of repenting?



Keeping the works of the OT law does not save. Keeping Christ 's NT works does save, Rev 2:26.



Abraham had an obedient faith, Heb 11:8





For one that is ALREADY a CHristian, how do you get around verses like Eph 2:10? Can one ALREADY saved NOT walk in those preordained good works and thwart what God preordained but still being saved? Can a Christian not work to provide for his own house, deny the faith be works than an infidel yet still be sved? Can the Christan not walk in the lihgt, 1 Jn 1:7, NOT have all his sins washed away yet still be saved? Not be faithful unto death yet still be sved, Rv 2:10, NOt keep Christ's works yet still over come and be saved, Rev 2:26?

Can a saved child of God do the following and be saved.....YES

1. Walk worldly and loose inheritance bit and piece meal....Prodigal Son
2. Have works that get burnt in the day of judgment....1st Corinthians 3
3. Backslide and forget that they have been purged...Peter
4. Be an enemy of the cross of Christ by non-transformed minds...Paul
5. Deny...Yes as HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF
6. Be so grievous in sin that they seemed to be lost....Yes cut loose for the destruction if the FLESH
7. Start out faithful and end up and spiritual adulterer...Yes SOLOMON
8. Have grievous sins in your life..YES DAVID-->paid the price during his PHYSICAL LIFE....

Salvation is based upon the perfect faith OF JESUS, his completed work upon the cross, death, burial and ana-stasis
It is eternal and based entirely upon the simple act of child like faith..PERIOD!

A TRUE SAVED child of God will have at least one piece of fruit on his tree...even if it is one little shriveled up piece of faith.....

 

[crossnote]

What about one ALREADY a Christian?


For one that is ALREADY a CHristian, how do you get around verses like Eph 2:10? Can one ALREADY saved NOT walk in those preordained good works and thwart what God preordained but still being saved? Can a Christian not work to provide for his own house, deny the faith be works than an infidel yet still be sved? Can the Christan not walk in the lihgt, 1 Jn 1:7, NOT have all his sins washed away yet still be saved? Not be faithful unto death yet still be sved, Rv 2:10, NOt keep Christ's works yet still over come and be saved, Rev 2:26?

If He is God's Son do you think God is incapable of dealing with him accordingly?

 

[SeaBass]

sucks for Joe.

what's Joe missing?
is God not present on desert islands?
Joe's got the word of God. Joe could read it and believe. Joe could love mercy and walk humbly around the island before God.
what else does God require of Joe?

alas! there are no poor to feed but Joe himself, and no nightclubs to piously avoid.

poor Joe. he's really "the least of these" isn't he?

i hope there is a God who cares about castaway Joe.

Some issues I see:

Joe can read and believe what he reads but what about repentance? What if Joe wronged some people in some way, stole some things, so how does Joe repent to those people or make restitution of what he stole? James 5:16; Matt 18:15

Mat 10:32 "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven"

What men will Joe confess before?

Mk 16:16, Acts 2:38 who will baptize Joe? Matt 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." How can Jesus be in the midst of Joe.


I liken Joe to a person, that for whatever reason, goes into a coma. They cannot do as God desires in a coma.

 

[Alligator]

"Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is not alone"

- John Calvin

thanks John for clearing that up. Well, which is it, is it faith alone or faith plus something else?

 

[SeaBass]

thanks John for clearing that up. Well, which is it, is it faith alone or faith plus something else?

Clear as mud

 

[SeaBass]

If He is God's Son do you think God is incapable of dealing with him accordingly?

You tell me.

 

[Alligator]

A contradicting statement if there ever was one.

And some people wonder why there is so much misunderstanding out there.

 

[posthuman]

thanks John for clearing that up. Well, which is it, is it faith alone or faith plus something else?

what's your faith in?

there's your answer.

 

[SeaBass]

And some people wonder why there is so much misunderstanding out there.

The fundamental premises of Calvinism may be summed up in this well-known saying of a bygone era:

• Everyone’s salvation or condemnation was determined before time began.
• Therefore, if one seeks redemption, he cannot find it.
• If he finds it, he cannot obtain it.
• If he obtains it, he cannot lose it!

Such is a maze of incomprehensible confusion. It does not take an Aristotle to conclude that this theological system is beyond the sphere of both inspired Scripture and common sense.


Wayne Jackson.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

Again, it seems you are trying to find some "exceptions" to get around 1 Tim 5:8

I am not dealing with exceptions and looking to find a way to get around 1 Tim 5:8 but I am asking a straight forward question:


If a Christian is heathly and can work. Can he be lazy and not work and thereby not provide for his famlly yet still be saved?

I see. We need to find out what it means to provide for one's own household.

Hebrews 3:1-6

3 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

[SUP]6[/SUP]But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Every house is built by some man, but all things were built by God. What type of work is to be done for these houses?

Galatians 5:19-21;22-23


[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Should we be doing this type of work as you mentioned as a demonstration of our faith? NO! This is why we still die! Because we believe that we need to go to work to earn a paycheck in order to survive and it is part of the strife and divisions of the work of the flesh.

What work should we be doing that demonstrates living faith?

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

How is this seen among us?

By what we do for others. To do unto the least of anyone is to do unto Him. This should not involve money.

 

[Alligator]

For one to become a Christian one must receive Jesus Christ as their Savior. There is nothing else required to become a Christian.

Roger[/QUOTE]

How about book, chapter and verse.?

 

[crossnote]

thanks John for clearing that up. Well, which is it, is it faith alone or faith plus something else?

Actually it is Christ alone that saves, faith alone merely rests in that fact.

 

[posthuman]

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"


Works of righteousness we have done refers to works of merit.

'Washing of regneration' refers to being water baptized. Note how works of merit are CONTRASTED to the obedient work of submitting to water baptism.

is it water that makes us new or 'sblood and His Word?

but i'll go down to the well with you

 

[SeaBass]

Can a saved child of God do the following and be saved.....YES

1. Walk worldly and loose inheritance bit and piece meal....Prodigal Son
2. Have works that get burnt in the day of judgment....1st Corinthians 3
3. Backslide and forget that they have been purged...Peter
4. Be an enemy of the cross of Christ by non-transformed minds...Paul
5. Deny...Yes as HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF
6. Be so grievous in sin that they seemed to be lost....Yes cut loose for the destruction if the FLESH
7. Start out faithful and end up and spiritual adulterer...Yes SOLOMON
8. Have grievous sins in your life..YES DAVID-->paid the price during his PHYSICAL LIFE....

Salvation is based upon the perfect faith OF JESUS, his completed work upon the cross, death, burial and ana-stasis
It is eternal and based entirely upon the simple act of child like faith..PERIOD!

A TRUE SAVED child of God will have at least one piece of fruit on his tree...even if it is one little shriveled up piece of faith.....

1--The prodigal became dead spiritually and was not alive AGAIN until he returned to his father.
2--The works in 1 Cor 3 refer to converts.
3--But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: Falling /not falling is CONDITIONAL
4--one cannot be an enemyof Christ and be saved James 4:4
5--Matt 10:33 "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven"
6--those insin are "dead" Eph 2:5
7--as far as we know Solomon was lost.
8--David repented

 

[Alligator]

For one to become a Christian one must receive Jesus Christ as their Savior. There is nothing else required to become a christian

.



For the cause of Christ
Roger[/QUOTE]

Book, chapter and verse please.

 

[SeaBass]

Actually it is Christ alone that saves, faith alone merely rests in that fact.

If CHrist alone saves, will Christ save everybody?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

The work that they are talking bout is not your job. I my bread is to do the will of my father. And yes, someone can receive Jesus on their deathbed and be saved right before they die. But this is not something that anyone should attempt to do.

You are saved without works. There is nothing that you can do to earn your salvation. But, if you are truly grateful for Jesus you will do the work. So posthuman's statement is true: Faith alone saves, but faith that saves is not alone. You are saved through your acceptance of Jesus, but if yo
u accept Jesus you will work.

Well said.If you are grateful,you will work.

 

[PennEd]

.



For the cause of Christ
Roger

Book, chapter and verse please.[/QUOTE]

Book-Romans Chapter-10 Verse-9

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.