Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[homwardbound]

You are arguing against a strawman here. this is your confusion over flesh and Spirit. Doing works is not necessarily flesh. Works of faith or through faith is NOT flesh, but still works.

Yes sir ye, works of the Spirit of God only, we are no=thing more that God's vessel to be used by God
Was this not true with Christ? God the Father did all the work through him?
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works

Whomn did teaches trust all the time to do what? Did Christ not send us the same Holy Spirit of truth to guide us and lead us as the same Holy Spirit led Christ?

So who does the works, you or God? You already answered this once and claimed you, are you still right and more righteous than God like those two men that went into the temple?
One was Justified and the other not, who was justified?

Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

So what justifies God or you?

 

[homwardbound]

Lets look at the context, you're cherry picking:

Luke 7:44-48 (NKJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."
[SUP]48 [/SUP]Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

Now lets look at what our Lord says about someone who loves Him, it certainly was not "faith only" :

John 14:21 (NKJV) He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."



The Greek word "σωσει" translated here "save" means to "heal" or "make well", or "make whole", salvation is not the meaning here.



If by faith alone, then it cannot be of grace, if by grace alone it cannot be of faith, therefore you cannot be saved by faith alone, eg: Mark 16:16



The Greek word "σωσει" translated here "save" means to "heal" or "make well", or "make whole", salvation is not the meaning here.



To believe on him is to do all he commands else how could you believe on someone you do not love :

 John 14:21 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
[HR][/HR] John 15:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Do you play twister, for I see you all tangled up and twisted and are trying to twist up others in condemnation and do works of their own flesh that is what this world teaches and is overturned by Christ For:
John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
I rest in that above, and you
2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

I personally have escaped and am not looking back, my trust is in the finished work of my savior Jesus Christ and have a personal relation with Father by this trust in Father through Son, It is a gift and I work by free will in response to this free gift as my thank you to Father and Son. or do you not get this?

We are the creation and not the creator. What makes sense here to respond to Father or create and have Father respond to us?
God is not a vending machine, The devil is though, who plays if you do you will get as he tried to win over Christ and said he would give Christ all these worldly possessions if he would bow down and worship him. and Christ did not and still does not
You think the Devil the deceiver has not come as an angel of light to deceive the very elect of God through positive and negative rewards?

 

[Vaudeville]

the very same but the conditions are different. Christ did not change anything in this life for us. It will all be consumated in the last day. He did not abolish sin, only atoned for sin, He did not change our mortal nature to immortal, nor did He abolish Satan, only defeated him. So, for all those reasons we need a mediator, forgiveness of sin which Christ does as our High Priest. Atonment is completed. That what Christ accomplished for us which we could not do which made all the rest possible.

what all the rest possible? that you could pick up where he left off and be made perfect in the flesh?

Galatians 3
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by[a] the flesh? 4 Did you suffer[b] so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you andworks miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify[c] the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”[d] 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”


now that puts to bed any notion you have works of God's Perfect Law can save you. so how can your good deeds as a christian save you? they don't. men see them and God is glorified.

i thought this was simple. learn something new everyday.

 

[homwardbound]

Hearing is something you must do to have faith :

Romans 10:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


so then the work of hearing produces/increases faith which produces righteous works, you cannot get around works.

Is there two types of work? one flesh that is nothing to God and the other Spirit of God everything to Father

 

[homwardbound]

because it denies the whole reason you were first created, then redeemed. If God did as you state here then God would have saved every single human being, all would be in heaven since that is what He desires.

Sorry God did reconcile all, redeem forgive, yet left us with the choice to beleive or not believe God in this, and unbelief is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit God sent to us to teach us all truth that sets us free from this worlds traps, that appear so appetizing as the tree appeared when the devil through the serpent twisted the truth
Sorry you seem to not be seeing this truth, praying God in you does show this to you if not already know

 

[Vaudeville]

Hearing is something you must do to have faith :

Romans 10:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


so then the work of hearing produces/increases faith which produces righteous works, you cannot get around works.

desperation. caution, man working.

 

[homwardbound]

My response to His saving me from death and sin, is to believe that He is the Christ, the Savior of the world, John 4:42. But believing, simply believing, or what is being shown to be false, faith only is not what constitutes our individual salvation. Our response is to love and obey. If we don't then our faith is dead. We cannot be saved.

Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
Thanking God today by son's work I have entered into

then you are NOT saved. If faith does not show the reality or evidence by works, doing righteousness then you are NOT righteous

Yep and am thankful for God has had Mercy on me and am not like you apparently, self righteous
Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

which one are you? read the rest in context and please are you the publican or the Pharisee? You know, I do not, and I am rested in this because I know God knows and will deal with both of us accordingly, Love you regardless at how much it appears you are kicking at God's Mercy to all and taking that away by adding if one works or not, when:

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

[cfultz3]

Is there two types of work? one flesh that is nothing to God and the other Spirit of God everything to Father

Seems to me also that hearing is a spiritual deed, that sort of deed which is not seen as a filthy rag, but seen as a fruit from one's spirit before God.

 

[homwardbound]

HOMWARDBOUND

Do you agree with this or refute this and want to have your own?

CASSIAN QUOTED

You are still very confused. You conflate a lot of things.

It is quite alright that you did not answer the ? or did you, by saying what you say here, you are refuting God's truth as what God has taught me, that it is all God and none of me except to be God's willing vessel to use me whenever God decides to
I bet God might be saying to you as you are saying "watch my smoke" as you are in the lead not God, God might be saying slow down, rest. act on my (God's) lead not your religous one where you are stuck on getting rewards if you do this and or that?
Was that not the thoughts of thoise religous leaders in Chirst's day here on earth? Stuck on the letter of the Law and wanting to ne the man in charge? Who is in charge God or you?

 

[homwardbound]

Again, or still confusion reigns. this is contrasting the work of Christ which we cannot do, namely, works of the law, which has nothing to do with our discussion relative to being saved by and through faith. Totally different ballparks. Isn't any wonder you are confused though.
You are actually conflating them.

I am speaking to the OP here Salvation not possible without works? So the ? is what works, flesh or Spirit of God works
For if of ones own flesh works, that does not cut it correct?
Of the Spirit of God works are doing the works, then that does cut it right or wrong, which one?
So far you have related that it is of self flesh works yours after belief, a yes or no please?

so we have it straight it seems sometimes you know this the difference of flesh works and the works of God's Spirit, I see posts bouncing back and forth
So tell me can any flesh please God outside of Christ's?

 

[homwardbound]

I think this is part of your confusion still. The credit goes to the Holy Spirit or God. We can do nothing apart from Christ. But it is still my works that I do through or with His help. I will give an account of these works because they are mine, not the works of the Holy Spirit.

All my flesh works will burn up and all my Faith works where God does the works through me as God the Father did through Son will not burn up
Do you see this giving God all the praise and glory forever?, never myself, trusting God to do through me what my flesh can never do?

 

[Cassian]

You speak well of man's doings and all man';s doings are as dung
Philippians 3:1-11

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

You are still searching for that text that does not exist. Nothing here in this entire post supports what you are espousing.
However, scripture teaches is what follows which is still part of your context, vs 12-21. This is what usually results from cherry picking texts that seemingly might support an erroneous idea.

 

[Cassian]

Yes sir ye, works of the Spirit of God only, we are no=thing more that God's vessel to be used by God
Was this not true with Christ? God the Father did all the work through him?
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works

Whomn did teaches trust all the time to do what? Did Christ not send us the same Holy Spirit of truth to guide us and lead us as the same Holy Spirit led Christ?

So who does the works, you or God? You already answered this once and claimed you, are you still right and more righteous than God like those two men that went into the temple?
One was Justified and the other not, who was justified?

Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

So what justifies God or you?

This text is not about works, but about humility. Submitting completely to Christ and doing His will. Not boastful as if one does it through the flesh.

You are fighting a losing battle. The faith only notion has never been a teaching of scripture. It was devised by a man, Luther, at the beginning of the Reformation who misunderstood salvation just like you do.

 

[homwardbound]

The testing of your works by fire, is ONLY to validate if they are worthy of reward:

1 Corinthians 3:14-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.


GEE, his works were burned up, (probably because he did them for the wrong motive), however HE IS STILL SAVED, therefore works have NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.

You know I think I might be elated to be at least a toilet bowl scrubber in Heaven, trusting Father to whatever decision Father has for me and continue to go here in this world ready in season and out of season for to give an answer to why all that joy I have premeditating through my being, and answer it is all God, and none of me I am thankful even in troubles, no matter what.
I remember being asked by someone that did drugs and said to me they want what i got it seems better that the drugs they were using and I told them about God was in Christ over two thousand years ago, reconciling the world unto himself, not counting your sins any of them against you, and asked them is that good news? And that person responded with a yes answer.
(And now this where the religious try to get them to go top their Church and get to know what they have to do a works project to be and stay saved.)

When all I said in response was then think how much more do you think you will be saved by his life, the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth?

This person left their life style and began the trust and came to life that very day b y God, born again. and this person said thank you to God ans then said to me, did I know they were a PK kid Preachers kid and that all their life they heard waht others said and never heard this truth about God and how much more one is saved by The life of Christ, seeing now what the death was for first before the resurrection and why in that order
Everyone knows what Christ's death did, not everyone knows waht the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth does
We are saved by the resurrected life in Spirit and truth, not by the death
Thank you Father for this Mercy Thank you Jesus for following through and doing for us what no flesh could ever do, and by this you brought and bought us new life in your Spirit you freely give to us

 

[Cassian]

I am speaking to the OP here Salvation not possible without works? So the ? is what works, flesh or Spirit of God works
For if of ones own flesh works, that does not cut it correct?
Of the Spirit of God works are doing the works, then that does cut it right or wrong, which one?
So far you have related that it is of self flesh works yours after belief, a yes or no please?

so we have it straight it seems sometimes you know this the difference of flesh works and the works of God's Spirit, I see posts bouncing back and forth
So tell me can any flesh please God outside of Christ's?

It seems you are the one confused. This whole post is not about two things, works of the law. which is also works of the flesh.
It is about works of faith. It is man's works who is guided by the Holy Spirit. It is man, a believer, doing the will of God. The Holy Spirit does not do the will of God through man. This is what some of you imply. The Holy Spirit is NOT the one that will be judged. It is your works, in the Spirit, that will be judged. Hope that clarifies your difficulty.

 

[Cassian]

All my flesh works will burn up and all my Faith works where God does the works through me as God the Father did through Son will not burn up
Do you see this giving God all the praise and glory forever?, never myself, trusting God to do through me what my flesh can never do?

God does not do a single work through you. He, the Holy Spirit works in you for YOU to do the will of the Father. It is YOU that does the work, not God, or the HOLY Spirit. Do you really think God would need us to some work that He is able to do? God created the works FOR US TO DO, not for HIM to do.


What text could you find that says God does the work of love, of obeying Him through You?

 

[homwardbound]

Why do you take this verse out of context, it has nothing to do with man not being able to lose his salvation, it has to do with teaching, and how some will hear and as the church grows, those that teach and for each that is save he will receive his reward, but those who he teach and does not grow, he will suffer the loss, but he (the teacher) will himself be saved...

Read the whole thing, your cherry picking :

1 Corinthians 3:9-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building. [SUP]10 [/SUP]According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, [SUP]13 [/SUP]each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Verse 6 and 7 Paul is talking about himself planting the seed, Apollos watered, but God gives the increase, now how do you get Perseverance of the Saints out of that is beyond me.

Cherry picking you use that a lot. Do you know why Elephants paint their toe nails red? To hide in Cherry trees.
Do you know how I died to the flesh sin, picking Cherries, I saw my wicked ness and dead to it through the death of Christ and med alive by the resurrected Christ in the Spirit of Father

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Corinthians 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The response to this, is what produces works of thanksgiving and praises to all, and all who are looking for this peace, joy, and righteousness just have to have some. You know. remember your first love that we tend to lose through this worlds works program
singing: praising my savior all the day long, singing hallelujah entering his courts daily thanking God for all things no matter what hey appear to look like good or bad
Now that is God's will you think or is this burden too light and yoke too easy?

 

[homwardbound]

OH how men want to believe that something they did, earned their salvation.

The word baptism mean to immerse into something. THE ONLY IMMERSION THAT SAVES IS THE IMMERSION INTO THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST. THAT IS DONE BY THE HOLY SPIRIT TOTALLY APART FROM CLIMBING INTO THE BAPTISTERY, WHICH WE DO AS AN ACT OF OBEDIENCE AFTER THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS IMMERSED US INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Thank you a good conscience to God the Father by Christ we do this as a response in thanksgiving, than you brother

As the:
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[homwardbound]

I'll try, but you know how hard it is to keep fighting?

It's like saying to someone, "Look it says adultery is bad" and they say "Adultery is good" =___________________=

But God bless you man, keep up the good fight. And you are right, and I forget who else but someone else told me the same thing. THey don't fight to inform the people they are against, but for the guests and new members. So keep at it brother, it's an endless war lol.... and I'll try to fight myself.

In Christ:
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Then he rose the third day by Father doing this, by this power we receive new life in the Spirit of Christ from Father a Free gift can not be earned get it. The new life resides in the cross that includes the resurrected Christ
And for anyone to rest in that do more than did before, now at rest while others are still in stress to do.
John 8:32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Free from what? Stress, worry, fear?
If you are in anyone of those above then truth has not set you free has it?

Truth sets free, so error any error in ones truth keeps one in bondage right? So if I am in bondage then I might need to rethink my truth; for to be in bondage one would have to have error in their truth right?
So maybe time to rethink your truth if you are still in bondage

 

[Jabberjaw]

desperation. caution, man working.

So you agree that one cannot possibly have salvation with no work at all.