the very same but the conditions are different. Christ did not change anything in this life for us. It will all be consumated in the last day. He did not abolish sin, only atoned for sin, He did not change our mortal nature to immortal, nor did He abolish Satan, only defeated him. So, for all those reasons we need a mediator, forgiveness of sin which Christ does as our High Priest. Atonment is completed. That what Christ accomplished for us which we could not do which made all the rest possible.
Salvation Not Possible Without Works
- Thread starter SeaBass
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If we are in a mutual synergistic relationship, which scripture describes, then the covenant can be broken by either party. However, God has given us His surety that He will never revoke His promises. But proponents of this view can never find the text that guarnatees man's faith, his side of the relationship.
Now, if you are going to posit that man is not in a mutual relationship, but an arrangement then you might have a point.
So we have been reconciled you agree on that message left the disciples to pass onto us great now then
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Since you are by God through Son reconciled, forgiven, redeemed, made right, then the reasonable service to say thank you, praise God and carry out this good news to all and quit beating them up as to whether they do right or wrong.
When one believes it is God that comes to live in them and teach them error from truth. We are nothing more than messengers to the truth that we are reconciled to Father through Son right or wrong?
I am a newsboy, and relinquished being an editor. And trying to carry the weight of the world on my shoulders as if God told me to edit, when all God said is to love as he has loved us.
So then I see no way to love truthfully without first seeing God's love not only for me, but for the whole world, we are reconciled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! loved beyond measure through Son are we not
How can one not respond in thanksgiving and praise over this as King David did when he saw the Christ in the future, the redeemer, and what he would do is now done. Hallelujah
Rejoice and be glad our redeemer has redeemed us, wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Since you are by God through Son reconciled, forgiven, redeemed, made right, then the reasonable service to say thank you, praise God and carry out this good news to all and quit beating them up as to whether they do right or wrong.
When one believes it is God that comes to live in them and teach them error from truth. We are nothing more than messengers to the truth that we are reconciled to Father through Son right or wrong?
I am a newsboy, and relinquished being an editor. And trying to carry the weight of the world on my shoulders as if God told me to edit, when all God said is to love as he has loved us.
So then I see no way to love truthfully without first seeing God's love not only for me, but for the whole world, we are reconciled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! loved beyond measure through Son are we not
How can one not respond in thanksgiving and praise over this as King David did when he saw the Christ in the future, the redeemer, and what he would do is now done. Hallelujah
Rejoice and be glad our redeemer has redeemed us, wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Right not from man, only from God there is, keep, working hard at this and you might find the rest you are called to be in , praying so, as i think all men want rest for there soul, and God is the only one that can and will reveal this rest as God sees fit to to whomever God chooses not you, me or anyone else Love you deeper than you know
All God and none of man see the verses to show truth as truth is please.
By the Spirit of Father alone, man can do nothing of or in himself to achieve what God achieved for him through Son
It is what it is:
[h=3]Romans 8:26-39[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. [SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? [SUP]32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? [SUP]33 [/SUP]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [SUP]36 [/SUP]As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. [SUP]37 [/SUP]Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [SUP]39 [/SUP]nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
By the Spirit of Father alone, man can do nothing of or in himself to achieve what God achieved for him through Son
It is what it is:
[h=3]Romans 8:26-39[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. [SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? [SUP]32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? [SUP]33 [/SUP]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [SUP]36 [/SUP]As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. [SUP]37 [/SUP]Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [SUP]39 [/SUP]nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Your but in there there above highlighted words I highlighted is like a billy goat that head buts in and discounts everything said before hand
So in essence this is what you said is truth prior to the head BUT, that but discounted everything you said prior to the But word
I have made my choice to beleive and stand firm right there, no swaying back and forth and taking over as if it is on me to be perfect, why I say this, because no flesh is perfect outside of Christ's ever and Christ's flesh is the only flesh that ever pleased God and thereby we are to walk in Spirit and truth , not flesh ways of self and this world
I am hid in Christ are you?
So in essence this is what you said is truth prior to the head BUT, that but discounted everything you said prior to the But word
I have made my choice to beleive and stand firm right there, no swaying back and forth and taking over as if it is on me to be perfect, why I say this, because no flesh is perfect outside of Christ's ever and Christ's flesh is the only flesh that ever pleased God and thereby we are to walk in Spirit and truth , not flesh ways of self and this world
I am hid in Christ are you?
You speak well of man's doings and all man';s doings are as dung
[h=3]Philippians 3:1-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
[h=3]Philippians 3:1-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
So then what do we do about this work of Chirst that states we are made by him in his death Holy:
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now can you make yourself any more perfect than what Christ did?:
[h=3]Galatians 3[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Have ye suffered so many things in vain?
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now can you make yourself any more perfect than what Christ did?:
[h=3]Galatians 3[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Have ye suffered so many things in vain?
P
Romans 5:9-11
Much more thrn being jusified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him (not by our works) For , if we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more being reconciled we shall be saved by HIS life. (not ours) And not only so but behave joy in God because of Jesus Messiah by Whom we have now recieved the atonement.
I don't see anything about my own works there. I see Jesus doing the work and myself accepting His atoning sacrifice. Perhaps we are mistaking works for "fruit" which we should bear.
Much more thrn being jusified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him (not by our works) For , if we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more being reconciled we shall be saved by HIS life. (not ours) And not only so but behave joy in God because of Jesus Messiah by Whom we have now recieved the atonement.
I don't see anything about my own works there. I see Jesus doing the work and myself accepting His atoning sacrifice. Perhaps we are mistaking works for "fruit" which we should bear.
Again, nothing here actually supports your view. You are trying, picking, trying to find some proof text that would seem to indicate man is not in a relationship and that our relationship with Christ is not mutual, but one sided and all based on a simple, one-time mental ascent of faith. Since it does not exist in scripture, you will be looking for a very long time futilly.
My works show proof of my Faith.
Faith did this not works
Works do not produce Faith, rather Faith produces works of the Spirit through you, if one has the right object of Faith in whom they believe?
And self works do and are in the way as being self righteous when there is not one good except God the Father as even Christ said this in Matt 19
He did not come to save those that are self righteous
[h=3]Luke 18:9-14[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: [SUP]10 [/SUP]Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
I have no righteousness of my own and never will of my own
I do have righteousness though and again it is not mine it is God's and god said here partake through my Son and i accepted and am free now to live God's life of love through me as per 1 Cor 13:4-13
Love you, oh and I could not love like this way until I saw God's love for me first:
1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
Then this type of Love is spread out through us to all, and this type of love is the fulfillment of all Law, so therefore we can rest in this now, and not worry or be stressed out anymore
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Faith did this not works
Works do not produce Faith, rather Faith produces works of the Spirit through you, if one has the right object of Faith in whom they believe?
And self works do and are in the way as being self righteous when there is not one good except God the Father as even Christ said this in Matt 19
He did not come to save those that are self righteous
[h=3]Luke 18:9-14[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: [SUP]10 [/SUP]Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
I have no righteousness of my own and never will of my own
I do have righteousness though and again it is not mine it is God's and god said here partake through my Son and i accepted and am free now to live God's life of love through me as per 1 Cor 13:4-13
Love you, oh and I could not love like this way until I saw God's love for me first:
1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
Then this type of Love is spread out through us to all, and this type of love is the fulfillment of all Law, so therefore we can rest in this now, and not worry or be stressed out anymore
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The only thing I disagree with here is the imitating, I am not an actor oh look at me and all my works
I am today seeing to participate, rather than imitate, that is where I am at today participating not imitating as I did one and was terribly stressed out over it, as I saw I couldn't imitate, was a man with two faces one to the crowd and the other to self behind closed doors, seeing the two, I finally had to face to which one was true:
Oh wretched man that I am, who will save me from this body of sin and death, and the answer came Jesus Christ my Savior my Lord
So therefore shown with this body flesh "I" serve the law of sin and death, yet with my new man inner man, I serve the law of love God
What do I not understand and not communicate to you?
Is not to this very day the fight between
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
And if you are seeking the Spirit over the flesh then there is no condemnation for you either, as I know there is none for me
[h=3]Romans 8:1[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
do we agree on this?
I am today seeing to participate, rather than imitate, that is where I am at today participating not imitating as I did one and was terribly stressed out over it, as I saw I couldn't imitate, was a man with two faces one to the crowd and the other to self behind closed doors, seeing the two, I finally had to face to which one was true:
Oh wretched man that I am, who will save me from this body of sin and death, and the answer came Jesus Christ my Savior my Lord
So therefore shown with this body flesh "I" serve the law of sin and death, yet with my new man inner man, I serve the law of love God
What do I not understand and not communicate to you?
Is not to this very day the fight between
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
And if you are seeking the Spirit over the flesh then there is no condemnation for you either, as I know there is none for me
[h=3]Romans 8:1[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
do we agree on this?