SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[Apostol2013]

this scenario never happened, because the Spirit within the brother cannot blaspheme itself.
A believer cannot commit the unforgivable sin.

I agree on this but it has happened . But on the other hand it does prove they were not believers at all not born again , i see thank you brother

 

[Elin]

When the originator of the OP cannot even summarize the oppositions view point and creates a strawman how can they even begin to refute what the opposition is even saying. I think they believe in their own mischaracterizations so they can argue for their position without opposition except the strawman.

The opposition's viewpoint is so corrupt, raveled and tangled
that even they can't summarize it with consistency.

Add to that, they can't even see their inconsistency
because first of all, they are so blind,
and secondly, their understanding is so garbled.

You are wasting your time and ours here.

 

[Apostol2013]

I would disagree it can be lost.....I will agree that it can be rejected and or allowed to (drift) by without bringing salvation to a lost man!

I can refuse a gift and I can allow a gift to go untouched and or unopened...

Very true i hank God for your insight

 

[LT]

Lt i know you have a good perception but we are dealing with ones that dont know better to the learned we have a good perception but we must be aware of the unlearned then they must be baby steped but to the learned the obedient salvation is secure now the thief on the cross did not have a chancr of learning but was saved but if we are given a timefrsme and have sufficidnt time and do nothing then we are at failufe but if there is no time maybe then that person would be saved

I do agree, but I also have seen too much of the product of 'fear of hell' Christians. It is lacking love, and only about self preservation.
Fear of the Lord is not about fearing hell, but fearing God's temporal judgement here on earth, and fearing disappointing our gracious Lord.

When the focus of salvation is just maintaining salvation, it is weak and lacking power. When it is based on love and thankfulness and pursuing works of goodness, it has power!

So often I hear Christians who are still enslaved to sin, desperately trying to keep themselves from sin, but failing. They are failing because they are so focused on their sins that they are not doing GOOD things, which come from keeping our minds focused on the cross. If we fill our time with positive works, there is no time for sin.

 

[Apostol2013]

So the answer to a true beliver is that salvation is secure

 

[dcontroversal]

The opposition's viewpoint is so corrupt, raveled and tangled
that even they can't summarize it with consistency.

Add to that, they can't even see their inconsistency
because first of all, they are so blind,
and secondly, their understanding is so garbled.

You are wasting your time and ours here.

I agree and will say that a summary of their beliefs is obvious....

They believe saved by works and or kept saved by works....Both are lies, contrary to the truth, cannot save and is double cursed by God through Paul to hell.......I think this is a good summary of what they are teaching not to mention that Cassius spends more time quoting his opinion rather than biblical truths in context.

 

[dcontroversal]

So the answer to a true beliver is that salvation is secure

Yes..it is secure, based upon the FAITH OF JESUS, cannot be earned, kept by works and is a free unearned gift...it is the Spirit that is born again and CANNOT SIN....therefore it CANNOT become LOST as it is SEALED to RIGHTEOUSNESS by the HOLY SPIRIT of God and what God does is ETERNAL...hence ETERNAL LIFE....

Whosoever believes in JESUS and acknowledges said faith has ETERNAL LIFE......what exactly does ETERNAL mean?

 

[Apostol2013]

So i also take that a refusal of change and surrender is a sign of an unbeliever

 

[LT]

So i also take that a refusal of change and surrender is a sign of an unbeliever

as scary as that is, yes.

 

[Apostol2013]

I agree and will say that a summary of their beliefs is obvious....

They believe saved by works and or kept saved by works....Both are lies, contrary to the truth, cannot save and is double cursed by God through Paul to hell.......I think this is a good summary of what they are teaching not to mention that Cassius spends more time quoting his opinion rather than biblical truths in context.

In this you are wrong judging my belief system but the scriptures speak of maintaining the faith till the end i speak to the unlearned sd they think but i amsimply trying to feel you all out and understand you all better to have a better fellowshipbut i will state the works are works of God not our own

 

[dcontroversal]

So i also take that a refusal of change and surrender is a sign of an unbeliever

A refusal of change concerning?

A refusal to surrender to?

This quote is ambiguous at best...I could take this quote and apply it to anything as well as both sides of the track so as to use it to condemn....

I could say that a refusal to surrender to what I believe which could lead to a change in your life is a sign that you are an unbeliever....

Someone who believes works for salvation and or to keep salvation could also use (your) quote to say that because I believe in faith through grace based upon mercy only that I cannot be a believer because I refuse to SURRENDER to their heretical doctrine and or change me life to be in line with their false beliefs....

More qualifying statements please....

Re: SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

So i also take that a refusal of change and surrender is a sign of an unbeliever​

 

[dcontroversal]

In this you are wrong judging my belief system but the scriptures speak of maintaining the faith till the end i speak to the unlearned sd they think but i amsimply trying to feel you all out and understand you all better to have a better fellowshipbut i will state the works are works of God not our own

This quote was not directly addressed to you or at you, but rather at.......

Originally Posted by Cassian

When the originator of the OP cannot even summarize the oppositions view point and creates a strawman how can they even begin to refute what the opposition is even saying. I think they believe in their own mischaracterizations so they can argue for their position without opposition except the strawman.

 

[Apostol2013]

Verment legalized heroin use doesn't mean it was good we see history also as evide.ce.

Well the bible is quite clear we have to respect the law of the land, yes no-one can go out and murder,, but one can out and run someone over drunk in a car and only get charged with manslaughter,, where is the justice in some parts of the law of the land hmm,, Now on the other side the government pays there soldiers to kill the soldier is still obliged to respect the law of the land,, that is the duty of a soldier,, this is the only time killing is acceptable along with self defense,, but one who murders and sheds innocent blood is seen as one of the things the lord detests, there are different types of murders so perhaps apostle would like to say exactly what murder he is talking about,, is he talking about pre mediated murder,, ie planned in advance ,, is he talking about an act in the heat of moment , when we know this we can answer ,,

I would say all murder is illegal to God i would refuse just because theg

 

[Apostol2013]

But to controversial i must say this for it is right to say i am sorry if i did offend you this is only corect to do im not sure if i did or not also to anyone i may have offended forwe are ministers of peace

 

[dcontroversal]

But to controversial i must say this for it is right to say i am sorry if i did offend you this is only corect to do im not sure if i did or not also to anyone i may have offended forwe are ministers of peace

Brother...you did not offend me in any way, shape or form....The problem with posting, e-mail etc. is that we cannot read each others faces....I get emphatic all the time and it is mistaken for anger, being upset etc. I do not get mad in this site nor am I easily offended...

I appreciate the apology anyway mi amigo!

 

[dcontroversal]

no Bible verses?
ok here are some more

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
John 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

All out of context and having nothing to do with me being in the Marines when I was 18......

 

[Jabberjaw]

I do agree, but I also have seen too much of the product of 'fear of hell' Christians. It is lacking love, and only about self preservation.
Fear of the Lord is not about fearing hell, but fearing God's temporal judgement here on earth, and fearing disappointing our gracious Lord.

When the focus of salvation is just maintaining salvation, it is weak and lacking power. When it is based on love and thankfulness and pursuing works of goodness, it has power!

So often I hear Christians who are still enslaved to sin, desperately trying to keep themselves from sin, but failing. They are failing because they are so focused on their sins that they are not doing GOOD things, which come from keeping our minds focused on the cross. If we fill our time with positive works, there is no time for sin.

Guess we just throw these verses away:

1 Corinthians 10:12 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Timothy 3:6-7 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.


and others.

 

[dcontroversal]

Guess we just throw these verses away:

1 Corinthians 10:12 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Timothy 3:6-7 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.


and others.

How do those verses you quote apply to what LT said and.....

just as important is the (context) that those verses are found within.....how about you list the context of the verses you listed.....or are you one who believes context can be chunked and a verse hung on a particular belief so as to support heretical teachings that are not supported by biblical truth.<----just asking that is......!

 

[Apostol2013]

Look i will share my experience with God i was a young man really a toddler when i was baptized in the Holy Ghost had not accepted yet and also given my comission but grew up it wasnt till i was fifteen year old that i accepted jesus in my heart as a knowing adult or young adult but growing up i had God work his power through me casting out unclean spirits God was allways giving me glimpses of heaven and hell and saw things before they happened one heaven vision i was in tge heavens and was told to take my place there , from thrn on along with all my wxperience i had experienced put an impact of my life i was a belivers in His full power but had not come yet to a full knowledge of the truth i had hope and knew God would deliver this fornicator adulterer liar and thief. Lover of myself incapable of empathy unmetciful God is amazing when i had no hope He did then took me out of darkness. For this thank You Jesus for giving me purpose

 

[dcontroversal]

Look i will share my experience with God i was a young man really a toddler when i was baptized in the Holy Ghost had not accepted yet and also given my comission but grew up it wasnt till i was fifteen year old that i accepted jesus in my heart as a knowing adult or young adult but growing up i had God work his power through me casting out unclean spirits God was allways giving me glimpses of heaven and hell and saw things before they happened one heaven vision i was in tge heavens and was told to take my place there , from thrn on along with all my wxperience i had experienced put an impact of my life i was a belivers in His full power but had not come yet to a full knowledge of the truth i had hope and knew God would deliver this fornicator adulterer liar and thief. Lover of myself incapable of empathy unmetciful God is amazing when i had no hope He did then took me out of darkness. For this thank You Jesus for giving me purpose

My version is not so grandiose as I realized that I was a lost sinner and did not want to cook in hell, so I confessed my sin nature and sins to God and asked Jesus to be merciful unto me a low life scum bag sinner and if it was within his will to REMEMBER me in His Kingdom and save me by HIS FAITH!

Now for the WORKERS for salvation crowd.....true saving faith will follow the word of God and live Biblical....

The first act of OBEDIENCE is BIBLICAL WATER IMMERSION which has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION but rather is a PICTURE and YOUR PUBLIC TESTIMONY of your acceptance of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and faith into said act which testifies to the world that the old man is dead, buried with Christ and risen a NEW CREATION in Christ JESUS.

It is an identifier just as circumcision was in the First Testament....it disassociates you from the guilty world that is condemned and identifies you with Jesus as it is a public confession of your acceptance of and belief in Jesus.