SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!
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You are quite Biblically uninformed.
What was man's side of the land covenant?
Mediator does not imply bilateral covenant.
It implies administration.
Where do you find anything bilateral in the promise of the new covenant in Jer 31:31-34?
You also do not know or understand the Scriptures well enough to represent them correctly.
You are wasting your time and ours here.
What was man's side of the land covenant?
Mediator does not imply bilateral covenant.
It implies administration.
Where do you find anything bilateral in the promise of the new covenant in Jer 31:31-34?
You also do not know or understand the Scriptures well enough to represent them correctly.
You are wasting your time and ours here.
Paul emphatically states otherwise. . .this is your own notion.
Take it up with him.
Our differences are irresolvable because you accept an authority outside Scripture which can authorize what Scripture does not state and is contradictory to it, as in the above.
Your self-evident error means you are wasting your time and ours here.
Take it up with him.
Our differences are irresolvable because you accept an authority outside Scripture which can authorize what Scripture does not state and is contradictory to it, as in the above.
Your self-evident error means you are wasting your time and ours here.
FAIL. . .
"Shall/should" expresses determination; i.e., to fix conclusively or authoritatively; to decide; to ordain.
in agreement with Ro 3:27; Eph 2:8-9; etc.
I'm glad that you agree.
and why would that be. Actually it is Greek, not English. But you agreed with it, so why be against the language.
which is a nonsensical statement, but how about this, what authority do you have INSIDE OF SCRIPTURE? Or even of scripture itself?
"Shall/should" expresses determination; i.e., to fix conclusively or authoritatively; to decide; to ordain.
Yes, it is irrevocable but conditions need to be met. It is future, not present.
According to its grammatical construction, that is exactly what it means,
in agreement with Ro 3:27; Eph 2:8-9; etc.
Your grasp of Scripture, as well as the English language, is much too inadequate
for you to represent them correctly.
for you to represent them correctly.
Add to that your acceptance of an authority outside Scripture
which can authorize what the Scriptures do not state,
and we have no bases for examining the Scriptures with you.
which can authorize what the Scriptures do not state,
and we have no bases for examining the Scriptures with you.
P
But you don't say where he emphatically states otherwise. Why? Because it was an empty assertion. In two threads you have been unable to muster a single text for support of "saved by faith only".
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not but believeth on Him that justifeth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I rest my case.
But you don't say where he emphatically states otherwise. Why? Because it was an empty assertion. In two threads you have been unable to muster a single text for support of "saved by faith only".
Nor do you say where "sovereignty of God," or "Trinity," or "relationship" is stated.
Are you saying they also are not presented in the Scriptures?
You can start with Ro 3:17 and Eph 2:8-9,
but your surface-deep understanding of the Scriptures and your misunderstanding of its terminology
(justification, righteousness, works, salvation, faith and works, free grace, etc.)
from your extra-Biblical authority guarantees you cannot represent them correctly.
There is no bases for examining the Scriptures with you,
so you are wasting your time and ours here.
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the works of the law.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not but believeth on Him that justifeth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I rest my case.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not but believeth on Him that justifeth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I rest my case.
Add to that your acceptance of an authority outside Scripture
which can authorize what the Scriptures do not state,
and we have no bases for examining the Scriptures with you.
which can authorize what the Scriptures do not state,
and we have no bases for examining the Scriptures with you.
what authority do you have INSIDE OF SCRIPTURE? Or even of scripture itself?
Q.E.D.
Are you finally getting the simple concept now that
we have no bases for examining the Scriptures with you?
You are wasting your time and ours here.
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Red herring.
Nor do you say where "sovereignty of God," or "Trinity," or "relationship" is stated.
Are you saying they also are not presented in the Scriptures?
Nor do you say where "sovereignty of God," or "Trinity," or "relationship" is stated.
Are you saying they also are not presented in the Scriptures?
You can start with Ro 3:17 and Eph 2:8-9,
but your surface-deep understanding of the Scriptures and your misunderstanding of its terminology
(justification, righteousness, works, salvation, faith and works, free grace, etc.)
from your extra-Biblical authority guarantees you cannot represent them correctly.
(justification, righteousness, works, salvation, faith and works, free grace, etc.)
from your extra-Biblical authority guarantees you cannot represent them correctly.
There is no bases for examining the Scriptures with you,
NOW we're down to your unbelief in the authority of Scripture.
I have not disbelief in that scripture has authority, but not in itself.
How is that authority of scripture working for you? For 500 years this has been the claim of all sola scripturist, yet they cannot show any evidence that scripture has any authority. To wit, Lutheranism, Calvinism, Wesleyism, Jehovah Witnesses, even Mormonism, and hundreds of others all use scripture as their authority. Why is scripture so confused and cannot present ONE meaning. It either has authority or it does not. It seems it lacks any authority. But it seems man has full authority over scripture and can determine what it means for his own sake.
How is that authority of scripture working for you? For 500 years this has been the claim of all sola scripturist, yet they cannot show any evidence that scripture has any authority. To wit, Lutheranism, Calvinism, Wesleyism, Jehovah Witnesses, even Mormonism, and hundreds of others all use scripture as their authority. Why is scripture so confused and cannot present ONE meaning. It either has authority or it does not. It seems it lacks any authority. But it seems man has full authority over scripture and can determine what it means for his own sake.
On the other hand, for 2000 years the Holy Spirit has preserved both the Body of Christ and the Gospel entrusted it without changes, without man ever imposing his innovative ideas upon it.
Seems there is a huge difference between the real authority over scripture, Christ/Holy Spirit through HIS Church and your authority, namely man, yourself included.
That concept has been present for 500 years. Just look around you. For 500 years man has presented opinion after opinion and each man has derived his own gospel. You give the impression that a sola scripturist simply exchanges opinion, just to make sure another does not come up with a better idea as to what it means.
That is the plan of Satan, But Christ's Gospel will always go forth to the end of the world. More men have rejected His Gospel than accepted it. I don't think that will change. In fact, in the latter days, it will get much worse. I think Paul had in mind this modern age when man is tickled by all the fables that are put forth.
Seems there is a huge difference between the real authority over scripture, Christ/Holy Spirit through HIS Church and your authority, namely man, yourself included.
Are you finally getting the simple concept now that
we have no bases for examining the Scriptures with you?
we have no bases for examining the Scriptures with you?
You are wasting your time and ours here.
They are not implied as is the Trinitity but in fact is negatively stated.
Like the Trinity, salvation by faith without works depends on your grasp of the Scriptures.
but your surface-deep understanding of the Scriptures and your
misunderstanding of its terminology
(justification, righteousness, works, salvation, faith and works, free grace, etc.)
from your extra-Biblical authority guarantees you cannot represent them correctly.
misunderstanding of its terminology
(justification, righteousness, works, salvation, faith and works, free grace, etc.)
from your extra-Biblical authority guarantees you cannot represent them correctly.
that there is no bases for examining the Scriptures with you.
You are wasting your time and ours here.
NOW we're down to your unbelief in the authority of Scripture.
How is that authority of scripture working for you? For 500 years this has been the claim of all sola scripturist, yet they cannot show any evidence that scripture has any authority. To wit, Lutheranism, Calvinism, Wesleyism, Jehovah Witnesses, even Mormonism, and hundreds of others all use scripture as their authority. Why is scripture so confused and cannot present ONE meaning. It either has authority or it does not. It seems it lacks any authority. But it seems man has full authority over scripture and can determine what it means for his own sake.
On the other hand, for 2000 years the Holy Spirit has preserved both the Body of Christ and the Gospel entrusted it without changes, without man ever imposing his innovative ideas upon it.
Seems there is a huge difference between the real authority over scripture, Christ/Holy Spirit through HIS Church and your authority, namely man, yourself included.
That concept has been present for 500 years. Just look around you. For 500 years man has presented opinion after opinion and each man has derived his own gospel. You give the impression that a sola scripturist simply exchanges opinion, just to make sure another does not come up with a better idea as to what it means.
That is the plan of Satan, But Christ's Gospel will always go forth to the end of the world. More men have rejected His Gospel than accepted it. I don't think that will change. In fact, in the latter days, it will get much worse. I think Paul had in mind this modern age when man is tickled by all the fables that are put forth.[/QUOTE]
NOW we're down to your unbelief in the authority of Scripture.
How is that authority of scripture working for you? For 500 years this has been the claim of all sola scripturist, yet they cannot show any evidence that scripture has any authority. To wit, Lutheranism, Calvinism, Wesleyism, Jehovah Witnesses, even Mormonism, and hundreds of others all use scripture as their authority. Why is scripture so confused and cannot present ONE meaning. It either has authority or it does not. It seems it lacks any authority. But it seems man has full authority over scripture and can determine what it means for his own sake.
I have not disbelief in that scripture has authority, but not in itself.
How is that authority of scripture working for you? For 500 years this has been the claim of all sola scripturist, yet they cannot show any evidence that scripture has any authority. To wit, Lutheranism, Calvinism, Wesleyism, Jehovah Witnesses, even Mormonism, and hundreds of others all use scripture as their authority. Why is scripture so confused and cannot present ONE meaning. It either has authority or it does not. It seems it lacks any authority. But it seems man has full authority over scripture and can determine what it means for his own sake.
On the other hand, for 2000 years the Holy Spirit has preserved both the Body of Christ and the Gospel entrusted it without changes, without man ever imposing his innovative ideas upon it.
Seems there is a huge difference between the real authority over scripture, Christ/Holy Spirit through HIS Church and your authority, namely man, yourself included.
That concept has been present for 500 years. Just look around you. For 500 years man has presented opinion after opinion and each man has derived his own gospel. You give the impression that a sola scripturist simply exchanges opinion, just to make sure another does not come up with a better idea as to what it means.
That is the plan of Satan, But Christ's Gospel will always go forth to the end of the world. More men have rejected His Gospel than accepted it. I don't think that will change. In fact, in the latter days, it will get much worse. I think Paul had in mind this modern age when man is tickled by all the fables that are put forth.
Seems there is a huge difference between the real authority over scripture, Christ/Holy Spirit through HIS Church and your authority, namely man, yourself included.
That concept has been present for 500 years. Just look around you. For 500 years man has presented opinion after opinion and each man has derived his own gospel. You give the impression that a sola scripturist simply exchanges opinion, just to make sure another does not come up with a better idea as to what it means.
That is the plan of Satan, But Christ's Gospel will always go forth to the end of the world. More men have rejected His Gospel than accepted it. I don't think that will change. In fact, in the latter days, it will get much worse. I think Paul had in mind this modern age when man is tickled by all the fables that are put forth.
The same can be said of the Trinity.
Like the Trinity, salvation by faith without works depends on your grasp of the Scriptures.
Like the Trinity, salvation by faith without works depends on your grasp of the Scriptures.
It takes an entrenched blindness not to see the simple logic
that there is no bases for examining the Scriptures with you.
that there is no bases for examining the Scriptures with you.
You cannot even say it correctly, You have described justification here, not salvation. Our personal salvation is through faith.
that there are no bases for examining the Scriptures with you
when we do not have the same final authority regarding them.
You are wasting your time and ours here.
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Like belief in the authority of the Supreme Court, but not in itself.
Your absurdity is showing, and is a waste of your time and ours here.
Your absurdity is showing, and is a waste of your time and ours here.
I think the absurdity is all on you. It is tuff to kick against the pricks.
The Bible says that we are not saved by works but it is a gift of God.
The Bible says that faith without works is dead,so we have to have works to have faith activated in our life to be saved.
The Bible says we are not saved by works.
The Bible says we have to have works to have faith to save us.
This is not a contradiction.
When the Bible says we are not saved by works it means we are not saved by any works according to the flesh.
When the Bible says we have to have works to have saving faith it means we have to have works according to the Holy Spirit.
Paul is not saying that we do not have to have works when we are saved but that anything we do to try to get to heaven apart apart from Jesus Christ will save us like false religions and people that only adhere to the Old Testament physical ordinance and do not confess Christ.
We have to have works of the Holy Spirit to have faith activated in our life to be saved,which the Bible says that faith alone cannot save you and Abraham was justified by works.
Anything we try to do according to the flesh to get to heaven will save us but only by confessing Christ and doing works of the Spirit which the Bible says we are prepared unto all good works.
Paul is not saying we do not have to have works when we are saved but we are not saved by works of the flesh not confessing Christ.
We are not saved by works.
We are saved by works.
Which is not a contradiction.
Not saved by works according to the flesh apart from Christ.
Saved by works according to the Holy Spirit.
Paul is not saying we do not have to have works when we are saved but trying to be right with God without accepting the New Testament which we would trying to be right with God according to the flesh.
What I do not understand is why people will hold one view over the other about saved without works and saved with works without trying to find out the truth.If the Bible says saved by works then find out why it says saved without works and saved with works and do not ignore scripture.
I have never heard anybody explain it but I wanted to find the truth between this seemingly contradiction and found out it is not a contradiction.
Not saved by works by the flesh.
Saved by works by the Holy Spirit.
That way God gets the glory.
It is as simple as that.
The Bible says that faith without works is dead,so we have to have works to have faith activated in our life to be saved.
The Bible says we are not saved by works.
The Bible says we have to have works to have faith to save us.
This is not a contradiction.
When the Bible says we are not saved by works it means we are not saved by any works according to the flesh.
When the Bible says we have to have works to have saving faith it means we have to have works according to the Holy Spirit.
Paul is not saying that we do not have to have works when we are saved but that anything we do to try to get to heaven apart apart from Jesus Christ will save us like false religions and people that only adhere to the Old Testament physical ordinance and do not confess Christ.
We have to have works of the Holy Spirit to have faith activated in our life to be saved,which the Bible says that faith alone cannot save you and Abraham was justified by works.
Anything we try to do according to the flesh to get to heaven will save us but only by confessing Christ and doing works of the Spirit which the Bible says we are prepared unto all good works.
Paul is not saying we do not have to have works when we are saved but we are not saved by works of the flesh not confessing Christ.
We are not saved by works.
We are saved by works.
Which is not a contradiction.
Not saved by works according to the flesh apart from Christ.
Saved by works according to the Holy Spirit.
Paul is not saying we do not have to have works when we are saved but trying to be right with God without accepting the New Testament which we would trying to be right with God according to the flesh.
What I do not understand is why people will hold one view over the other about saved without works and saved with works without trying to find out the truth.If the Bible says saved by works then find out why it says saved without works and saved with works and do not ignore scripture.
I have never heard anybody explain it but I wanted to find the truth between this seemingly contradiction and found out it is not a contradiction.
Not saved by works by the flesh.
Saved by works by the Holy Spirit.
That way God gets the glory.
It is as simple as that.