Saved by faith alone?

[DavidLamb]

It looks to me like you need to tell Jesus that we need faith for EL not just belief.

So, it looks to me like you're confused.

As both English words, "faith" and "belief" are used to translate the same Greek word pistis, I don't see what "We need faith.....not just belief" means.

“But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief (pistis) in the truth,” (2Th 2:13 NKJV)

“So Jesus answered and said to them, "Have faith (pistis) in God.” (Mr 11:22 NKJV)

 

[studier]

What did the children of Isreal believe when they looked to the serpent
what do we believe when we look to the cross

Am starting to Doubt your seriousness

Believe or trust?

 

[studier]

As both English words, "faith" and "belief" are used to translate the same Greek word pistis, I don't see what "We need faith.....not just belief" means.

“But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief (pistis) in the truth,” (2Th 2:13 NKJV)

“So Jesus answered and said to them, "Have faith (pistis) in God.” (Mr 11:22 NKJV)

Agree. Yet there are a few here importing a difference between belief and faith and saying belief must be trust or it's not true belief because demons believe but don't trust Jesus for salvation.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Believe or trust?

You tell me
did they just believe
or did they trust

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

As both English words, "faith" and "belief" are used to translate the same Greek word pistis, I don't see what "We need faith.....not just belief" means.

“But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief (pistis) in the truth,” (2Th 2:13 NKJV)

“So Jesus answered and said to them, "Have faith (pistis) in God.” (Mr 11:22 NKJV)

True
But we have to acknowledge in this context that belief equals faith
but they are still two different words
we can believe something and not trust
if I believe in the cross yet do
Not have confidence the cross will
Save me ((faith) am I saved?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Agree. Yet there are a few here importing a difference between belief and faith and saying belief must be trust or it's not true belief because demons believe but don't trust Jesus for salvation.

James said these people who claimed to have faith if they believed and did well. But in the end he did even if they believed their faith was dead (non existent)
so even James said we can believe and not tust
and can mere belief save? james said no

 

[studier]

James said these people who claimed to have faith if they believed and did well. But in the end he did even if they believed their faith was dead (non existent)
so even James said we can believe and not tust
and can mere belief save? james said no

Actually, James argues re: belief/faith with vs. without works.

 

[studier]

You tell me
did they just believe
or did they trust

You say there is a difference then you use them interchangeably. As I said earlier, you seem confused.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Actually, James argues re: belief/faith with vs. without works.

Um no
he is arguing mere believe vs faith
truth faith acts.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You say there is a difference then you use them interchangeably. As I said earlier, you seem confused.

Your acting like a troll
Answer the question
faith means trust
did they merely believe or did they have faith (trust)

 

[studier]

Um no
he is arguing mere believe vs faith
truth faith acts.

Faith or true faith?

Actually, he's using believe and faith interchangeably and discussing the inclusion or non-inclusion of works.

So, now we also have faith vs. true faith and belief vs. Belief (or true belief) and faith & belief vs. trust and maybe true faith and true belief infused with trust.

At least this proves one of my working theories from decades ago; Faith is not well defined in the minds of most.

OK. Let's accept your premise.

Should we retranslate all or most of the instances of believe and belief in the Text to have faith and faith or to have true faith and true faith?

Or do we bypass pistis as either and translate it as trust?

Do you think the Bible defines words for us, so we're not stuck with basic meanings from cultural usage? Have you ever done any studies of how the Bible uses words from cultures but infuses its own meaning into them?

Do you know that there are at least 2 other Greek words [inconsistently] being translated as trust in the Bible?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Faith or true faith?

Actually, he's using believe and faith interchangeably and discussing the inclusion or non-inclusion of works.

So, now we also have faith vs. true faith and belief vs. Belief (or true belief) and faith & belief vs. trust and maybe true faith and true belief infused with trust.

At least this proves one of my working theories from decades ago; Faith is not well defined in the minds of most.

OK. Let's accept your premise.

Should we retranslate all or most of the instances of believe and belief in the Text to have faith and faith or to have true faith and true faith?

Or do we bypass pistis as either and translate it as trust?

Do you think the Bible defines words for us, so we're not stuck with basic meanings from cultural usage? Have you ever done any studies of how the Bible uses words from cultures but infuses its own meaning into them?

Do you know that there are at least 2 other Greek words [inconsistently] being translated as trust in the Bible?

Um no
what does it profit someone if they claim to have faith…
if you believe you do well. Even demons believe
Faith without works is dead. It has no life
he separates belief and faith

Will you answer. If I believe and do not have faith can I be saved?

 

[studier]

Your acting like a troll
Answer the question
faith means trust
did they merely believe or did they have faith (trust)

May seem like it trying to unwind confusion.
If and when I want.
Faith may include trust, but it's not trust.
I don't know what merely believe means and faith & trust are not the same.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

May seem like it trying to unwind confusion.
If and when I want.
Faith may include trust, but it's not trust.
I don't know what merely believe means and faith & trust are not the same.

lol. Even the Greek defenition of faith is to trust to be confident in to have assurance
you like to redefine words.
a claimed faith with no trust or confidence is not faith it is mere belief
True faith trust that’s why true faith works

 

[studier]

Um no
what does it profit someone if they claim to have faith…
if you believe you do well. Even demons believe
Faith without works is dead. It has no life
he separates belief and faith

Will you answer. If I believe and do not have faith can I be saved?

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith pistis but does not have works? Can faith pistis save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith pistis by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith pistis, and I have works." Show me your faith pistis without your works, and I will show you my faith pistis by my works. 19 You believe pisteuō that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe pisteuō-- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith pistis without works is dead? (Jas. 2:14-20 NKJ)

pistis: (BDAG Lexicon)
1. that which evokes trust and faith
2. state of believing on the basis of the reliability of the one trusted, trust, confidence, faith
3. that which is believed, body of faith/belief/teaching

pisteuō: (BDAG Lexicon)
1. to consider someth. to be true and therefore worthy of one’s trust, believe

My answer: If you believe/have faith, you can be saved. Elaboration: I think you're making up a language and if you want to prove it to be the language of the Bible, you'll need to do a lot of work FROM the Text to provide it for review.

 

[studier]

lol. Even the Greek defenition of faith is to trust to be confident in to have assurance
you like to redefine words.
a claimed faith with no trust or confidence is not faith it is mere belief
True faith trust that’s why true faith works

Most folks who want to be seen as credible provide links to references or ID the references so they can be examined. I just provided you with the major headings of definitions from an identified source used in most scholarship today that shows overlap with all the words you're using.

I have zero issues with defining Faith or Belief or Trust FROM the Text - IOW letting God show how He uses words. I just don't find your work convincing. Nor do I find the theory that trusting Jesus for Salvation is the answer to working out these language and doctrinal issues.

 

[mailmandan]

4102. pistis ►
Lexicon
pistis: Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity
Original Word: πίστις
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Pronunciation: PIS-tis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity
Meaning: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

https://biblehub.com/greek/4102.htm

4100. pisteuó ►
Lexicon
pisteuó: To believe, to have faith, to trust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Pronunciation: pis-tyoo'-o
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: To believe, to have faith, to trust
Meaning: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

https://biblehub.com/greek/4100.htm

 

[studier]

4102. pistis ►
Lexicon
pistis: Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity
Original Word: πίστις
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Pronunciation: PIS-tis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity
Meaning: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

https://biblehub.com/greek/4102.htm

4100. pisteuó ►
Lexicon
pisteuó: To believe, to have faith, to trust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Pronunciation: pis-tyoo'-o
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: To believe, to have faith, to trust
Meaning: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

https://biblehub.com/greek/4100.htm

It looks like these are a summary of various references. Is this how you see it?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Most folks who want to be seen as credible provide links to references or ID the references so they can be examined. I just provided you with the major headings of definitions from an identified source used in most scholarship today that shows overlap with all the words you're using.

I have zero issues with defining Faith or Belief or Trust FROM the Text - IOW letting God show how He uses words. I just don't find your work convincing. Nor do I find the theory that trusting Jesus for Salvation is the answer to working out these language and doctrinal issues.

You just keep showing how trolling you are
First you say belief and faith are the same
then you claim I use them interchangeably
Now your changing again
I gave an example Of belief vs faith I do not remember you refuting that exaple
so again answer my two questions or prove you are unable to answer. Or your just a troll

 

[mailmandan]

It looks like these are a summary of various references. Is this how you see it?

Belief and faith that saves involve both belief and faith along with trust. Depending on the context, believe can fall short of saving belief. See "believe" in James 2:19. Same Greek word "pisteuo" yet the demons lack trust.