Saved by faith alone?

[Everlasting-Grace]

So now how does a person who is not born again (which I assume you mean by hearer) test their own faith?

Did not James say?

Look inside do you have works
Are you a hearer only and not a doer
how do you know you have saving faith? (Remember context they have no works)

 

[HeIsHere]

Yet James did that exact thing.
Living faith vs dead faith (mere belief)

Dead faith is not mere belief, mere belief is belief which is not supported by evidence but still believed to be true.

 

[HeIsHere]

Did not James say?

Look inside do you have works
Are you a hearer only and not a doer
how do you know you have saving faith? (Remember context they have no works)

Yes they were believers.
The saving faith in view is the about the soul not the spiritual saving faith.
Any way it is the entire letter that must be considered not bits and pieces.

 

[DeanM]

People on their death bed who accept Christ through faith do not do works before death. The thief on the cross had no time for works and yet Jesus said the thief would be with Him in paradise. People do seem to have a hard time accepting the gift of grace and salvation without stressing that they have to do something more. The only more is repent of sins daily because saved people sin and need repentance.

 

[lrs68]

People on their death bed who accept Christ through faith do not do works before death. The thief on the cross had no time for works and yet Jesus said the thief would be with Him in paradise. People do seem to have a hard time accepting the gift of grace and salvation without stressing that they have to do something more. The only more is repent of sins daily because saved people sin and need repentance.

They actually do works. The thief admitted he deserved his punishment but Yeshua didn't and those death bed conversions are ultimately a Testimony that people can change. So there's works you just choose not to see it.

 

[HeIsHere]

People on their death bed who accept Christ through faith do not do works before death. The thief on the cross had no time for works and yet Jesus said the thief would be with Him in paradise. People do seem to have a hard time accepting the gift of grace and salvation without stressing that they have to do something more.

Yes indeed!!!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Dead faith is not mere belief, mere belief is belief which is not supported by evidence but still believed to be true.

lol ok
if you think so

 

[HeIsHere]

lol ok
if you think so

I know so.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

People on their death bed who accept Christ through faith do not do works before death. The thief on the cross had no time for works and yet Jesus said the thief would be with Him in paradise. People do seem to have a hard time accepting the gift of grace and salvation without stressing that they have to do something more. The only more is repent of sins daily because saved people sin and need repentance.

The context of James 2 is people who claim to have faith
it does not say they had faith

If you read you see they are hearers only not doers
we would call them in Jude licentious believers. Or

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I know so.

Well I never heard such a thing and would Not try to excuse people who claim they are saved because they said some sinners prayer but show no signs of faith. James warned them we should heed his warning

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

They actually do works. The thief admitted he deserved his punishment but Yeshua didn't and those death bed conversions are ultimately a Testimony that people can change. So there's works you just choose not to see it.

Amen
those in James had no works period. They did not have 1 or 2 and that’s all they had no works

 

[DeanM]

They actually do works. The thief admitted he deserved his punishment but Yeshua didn't and those death bed conversions are ultimately a Testimony that people can change. So there's works you just choose not to see it.

No. I choose not to make things more difficult than they are.

 

[DeanM]

Well I never heard such a thing and would Not try to excuse people who claim they are saved because they said some sinners prayer but show no signs of faith. James warned them we should heed his warning

Signs of faith show of course. Working to get a gold brick in your mansion is a catholic thing and I think such beiefs do more harm than good. Best blessing I ever heard at the end of church is " go and treat people a little better" Is that instruction to works?

 

[studier]

Another thing to remember is James is responding to another interlocutor in the text who is raising objections.

Agree, and there are differing views on who is saying James2:19.

 

[HeIsHere]

Well I never heard such a thing and would Not try to excuse people who claim they are saved because they said some sinners prayer but show no signs of faith. James warned them we should heed his warning

I understand this point, but that is not what James is writing on.

Also, people say words, this does not mean they understand nor necessarily believe what they have stated.

 

[HeIsHere]

Agree, and there are differing views on who is saying James2:19.

But only one correct view.

 

[studier]

The demons may trust in the fact that there is one God but they do not trust in Jesus Christ as their Savior. Big difference.

Of course they don't. As discussed, salvation is not open to them and they are in rebellion to God anyway, so why would trusting Christ for salvation even be a consideration?

I think this answers all your responses, so no disrespect meant in not responding to each one.

 

[Magenta]

Nothing wrong at all.

In the Greek both faith and belief come from the same root word, one being a noun and the other a verb.

You should make up your mind if using a noun as a verb is acceptable or not.

First you say nothing wrong with it, then you repeatedly contradict that.

 

[HeIsHere]

Amen
those in James had no works period. They did not have 1 or 2 and that’s all they had no works

Seems then James forget to tell them how to receive eternal life.

 

[studier]

The real issue is what does a measure actually mean because is it saying everyone gets the same measure or do some get more than others...?

But what we clearly should be able to understand from this verse in Romans is that God has provided the necessary means to believe in Him. Faith is belief and Paul explains God gave us what is required in order to believe, a measure of Faith.

Read the context of spiritual gifts and functions in the Body again and think about all the ways "faith" is discussed.

The way I read the Text, God gave us the functions of perceptions, reasoning, choice, belief, infused into us knowledge of His existence, power, divinity, justice, righteousness, then identified His Son to us and what He has provided for us in His Son and thereby has provided not only the capacity to believe but the information He requires us to believe and He draws men to His Son by teaching them.

When I see this measure of faith in the context of spiritual gifts and functions of gifts in the Body for the benefit of the entire Body, I'm not seeing a measure of Faith to believe in His Son, but to function in the Body of Christ.