Saved by Water

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Since these truths are confirmed in the word I agree they are necessary. To say otherwise would be a rejection of what is clearly seen in the word.

Biblical truths will always be confirmed by at least 2-3 witnesses. The bible shows clearly that the proper way to water baptize is in the name of the Lord Jesus. This is proven by the use of Jesus' name in all of the biblical records depicting actual water baptisms. And as for speaking in tongues, Peter stated that what the people heard and saw was the result of their receiving the Holy Ghost. Speaking in tongues accompanied receiving the Holy Ghost in numerous scriptures as well. (Acts 2:1-4, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) In other scriptures speaking in tongues is implied or confirmed by comments made in the word. (Acts 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 1 Cor. 14:18)

Even though the scripture does not reference Paul speaking in tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost we know he did. In 1 Cor 14:18 we see Paul does speak and sing in tongues but when in church he would rather speak in a language understood by others in order to teach.

Lastly, scripture indicates it's proper to ask for the Holy Spirit. This scripture also provides proof that people cannot expect to receive it the instant they believe the gospel:
“If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” Luke 11:13

Peter informed listeners at Pentecost after they believed in Jesus that it must repent, and everyone was to be water baptized in Jesus name’ and that they could expect to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as well. This promise was not only for those present but extended to as the Lord shall call. (Acts 2:38-39)
Can't see the relevance of 2-3 witnesses.

Why could Jesus not condemn the adulteress woman?

Anyway.
Answer this question.
If today you do not speak in tongues are you not saved?

Yes or no please.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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This is an asinine comment! Where does Scripture itself "refute a belief that scripture is the ultimate authority"?

Please take a look at scriptures that dispute that people can expect to receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believe in Jesus.
All you are doing is cherry picking verses that differ. By the time Paul wrote to the Galatians (approx 49-55 AD) the Holy Spirit was always received based on faith in Christ.

And you've been repeatedly told about the early days of the church. But you aren't listening.


Then show any verse outside of Acts where anyone received the Spirit some time after believing. That's the only way to prove your claim.


Out side of Acts. Let's just stick with the established church. Not in its infancy.


Another empty claim. What verse or verses says this?

When you throw out claims, please attach Scripture to them so I can see where you are coming from.

As it is, I have no idea, since you don't include Scripture.

I study the Bible the way the Bereans did: search the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul (or anyone else) said is true.

So I won't believe anything you claim unless you have Scripture to prove your claim.
My asinine comment is actually true.
If a person believes something that goes against scripture. The person is wrong and the scripture is right.

The gospel message that includes the need to believe, repent, be water baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost will continue until Christ returns. Jesus said the message would be preached in all nations beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) And that message is alive and well today. However, not everyone believes what Jesus said.

Lastly, Paul's epistles were written to born again believers who had already obeyed the NT mandate. The letters mainly contain explanation of God's principles and instruction about what is considered Godly behavior.

Since our discussion has not been very fruitful I think it best to leave things where they are. I pray God will provide revelation to each of us as no progress can take place without it.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Rather, you SHOULD review all my posts before making such an absurd charge. I've never accused you of lying. I have plenty of times accused you of twisting Scripture, misreading Scripture, failing to understand Scripture (shall I go on?).


Quote the verse. I don't believe your claim.


OK, I see your error. You even bolded it for me!

The bolded words in v.6 don't occur in the original.

New International Version
He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

New Living Translation
He is staying with Simon, a tanner who lives near the seashore.”

English Standard Version
He is lodging with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Berean Study Bible
He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Berean Literal Bible
He lodges with a certain Simon, a tanner whose house is by the sea."

King James Bible
He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

New King James Version
He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He will tell you what you must do.”

New American Standard Bible
he is staying with a tanner named Simon, whose house is by the sea.”

NASB 1995
he is staying with a tanner named Simon, whose house is by the sea.”

NASB 1977
he is staying with a certain tanner named Simon, whose house is by the sea.”

Amplified Bible
he is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Christian Standard Bible
He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

American Standard Version
he lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Behold, he dwells in the house of Shimeon a Tanner which is on the seaside.”

Contemporary English Version
He is staying with Simon the leather maker, who lives in a house near the sea."

Douay-Rheims Bible
He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side. He will tell thee what thou must do.

English Revised Version
he lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side.

Good News Translation
He is a guest in the home of a tanner of leather named Simon, who lives by the sea."

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He is a guest of Simon, a leatherworker, whose house is by the sea."

International Standard Version
He is a guest of Simon, a leatherworker, whose house is by the sea."

Literal Standard Version
this one lodges with a certain Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea; this one will speak to you what you must do.”

NET Bible
This man is staying as a guest with a man named Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea."

New Heart English Bible
He lodges with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the seaside."

Weymouth New Testament
He is staying as a guest with Simon, a tanner, who has a house close to the sea."

World English Bible
He lodges with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the seaside."

Young's Literal Translation
this one doth lodge with a certain Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea; this one shall speak to thee what it behoveth thee to do.'

So, out of 27 English translations, only 5 have the words you bolded. So, you are going to ignore the vast majority of scholars and what they translated.

What I do know about the KJV and Douay-Rheims and Young's is that those translations came from much NEWER manuscripts than the other newer translations. And that is important. Because the newer translations have much older manuscripts.

The KJV, for example, used hand copied manuscripts dated from the 10th Century. But the modern translations used manuscripts that date back as far as the 2nd Century, making those manuscripts MUCH MORE reliable with less scribal ERRORS.

However, let's go ahead and accept your 18% of translations as legit. So the question is what did Peter tell them what TO DO?

Well, from Acts 11:14 we have this verse: He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

Hm. That sounds familiar. A certain jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved. And Paul told him to "believe and you will be saved". Acts 16:31

So, rather than your concocted fantasy that Peter told Cornelius to be water baptized to be saved, Peter told him the same thing Paul told the jailer.

Mystery solved. You're welcome.
I am confident in what is stated in the KJV. And that does include the info about Peter telling them what to do. Many of the other translations distort the message.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Can't see the relevance of 2-3 witnesses.

Why could Jesus not condemn the adulteress woman?

Anyway.
Answer this question.
If today you do not speak in tongues are you not saved?

Yes or no please.
I agreed they are necessary in the exact post you replied to.

Jesus would not condemn the adulteress woman because all of her accusers left.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
2,671
357
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My asinine comment is actually true.
No, it is quite asinine.

If a person believes something that goes against scripture. The person is wrong and the scripture is right.
That's not what you said. Everything you post is wrong. It goes against Scripture.

The gospel message that includes the need to believe, repent, be water baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost will continue until Christ returns.
Wrong again. Paul's answer to the jailer is how one gets saved. We see the exact same truth in John 3:16, 5;24 with 10:28, 6:40, 11:25-27, Acts 16:31, Rom 10:9, Gal 3:26.
 

Gardenias

Active member
Oct 27, 2020
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How beautifully SIMPLE it must have been to be in the first believers group!

Having the apostles address the words that Jesus spoke to them firsthand.
Believing a man, made flesh is God!
By believing his death,burial and resurrection is freedom from sin.

NOT having man made interpretation and traditions to lean on.

Even Paul being an outsider to the apostles kept his teachings true to what Jesus spoke when instructing the gentiles.

Why can't WE simply stand on God's word w/o bringing in theologies of what MAN SAYS AS OPPOSED TO GOD WORDS?
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
2,671
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I am confident in what is stated in the KJV.
Why? The KJV was translated from manuscripts dated the 10th Century. Why do you trust newer manuscripts over the ones written MUCH CLOSER to the original autograph? That doesn't make sense.

And that does include the info about Peter telling them what to do. Many of the other translations distort the message.
How would the scribes who copied manuscripts in the 10th Century have more clarity than scribes who copied manuscripts that were within 100 yrs of the original manuscripts?
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
2,671
357
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How beautifully SIMPLE it must have been to be in the first believers group!

Having the apostles address the words that Jesus spoke to them firsthand.
Believing a man, made flesh is God!
By believing his death,burial and resurrection was freedom from sin.

NOT having man made interpretation and traditions to lean on.

Even Paul being an outsider to the apostles kept his teachings true to what Jesus spoke when instructing the gentiles.

Why can't WE simply stand on God's word w/o bringing in theologies of what MAN SAYS OPPOSED TO GOD?
The problem is how people take clear words and mold them into their own agenda.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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If my bible timeline is correct Paul actually wrote 1st Corinthians while in Ephesus where he instructed disciples that they had to be rebaptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:1-6) Paul's comment was not that he didn't baptize anymore, but rather that he was not sent to baptize but to preach the gospel message. (1 Cor. 1:17) Of which water baptism is a part.

We know that members of the body perform different primary functions. So Paul's statement would more likely pertain to preaching being his primary ministry. While others administered water baptisms unless no one else was available to perform them.

Also, consider that according to Paul the person we were is crucified and buried with Jesus by baptism. (Rom. 6:3-4) And having been planted together in the likeness of Jesus’ death, we shall be also in the likeness of Jesus resurrection. (Rom. 6:5) These truths can be seen in one’s obedience to God’s command that everyone repent, and be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (death and burial) And, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (resurrection power) Having been reborn of water and Spirit provides for entrance into heaven where we will live with Jesus. (Rom. 6:8)


“ Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Rom 6:3-8
Paul speaking of not being sent to baptize, and glad he didn't baptize certain ones is in 1 Corinthians 1.

Interesting that you mention Paul teaching that certain ones had to be rebaptized in the name of our Lord.
That reiterates the actual message often misconstrued as trinity. Good job.:)
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
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Your argument is not with me. I've actually shared what the word states about the use of the name of the Lord Jesus in connection with water baptism. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)
actually I don't have an argument now then, do I. the factual evidence of your Oneness doctrine has been well documented by yourself

Your post has nothing to do with the comment you are supposedly replying to.

My comment to which you did not respond:
It is easy to confirm whether what I have presented is true. Search the bible for each water baptism reference. The answer is staring everyone in the face. But sadly people will still refuse to accept the truth.
I have referenced many scriptures and refuted your false claims. when all else fails, when it becomes glaringly obvious of Wansvics inability to address scripture given to illustrate the Oneness error, he/she then claims questions have not been answered

that's just a bogus claim. as bogus as the Oneness doctrine you adhere to

I have presented scripture concerning how apostles water baptized.
I did one better. I presented scripture that quotes what Jesus said regarding baptism.

again, Oneness doctrine sprouted at the turn of the 20th C so your sect is way behind in historical authenticity
 

rayzor

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2021
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Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it is not so.

Again, why did the apostles baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus in obedience to Jesus command to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in Matthew 28:19? If one refuses to accept that truth they are rejecting the word which is in fact a rejection of Jesus. (John 1:1)
Answer the question...which 0ne is god?All 3 or just Jesus?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,246
3,988
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I agreed they are necessary in the exact post you replied to.

Jesus would not condemn the adulteress woman because all of her accusers left.
Answer the questions asked many times.
Do you believe in the trinity?
If you don't speak in tongues are you not saved?

Why are you avoiding the questions?
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
3,710
2,133
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Answer the questions asked many times.
Do you believe in the trinity?
If you don't speak in tongues are you not saved?

Why are you avoiding the questions?

too much pressure there Bill

wansvic is going to crack under it :LOL:
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Answer the question...which 0ne is god?All 3 or just Jesus?
Jesus said the following:

"I and my Father are one." John 10:29

"If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Answer the questions asked many times.
Do you believe in the trinity?
If you don't speak in tongues are you not saved?

Why are you avoiding the questions?
Your comments show what I've stated about people not reading entire posts before responding. I answered your questions. If you are seriously interested you may want to check my posts.
 

rayzor

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2021
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Jesus said the following:

"I and my Father are one." John 10:29

"If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38
u believe in the double-t instead of the trinity?
 

rayzor

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2021
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responded to the wrong member :(
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Paul speaking of not being sent to baptize, and glad he didn't baptize certain ones is in 1 Corinthians 1.

Interesting that you mention Paul teaching that certain ones had to be rebaptized in the name of our Lord.
That reiterates the actual message often misconstrued as trinity. Good job.:)
I think the context of of Paul's interaction with the Corinthians sheds light on the relevance of his comments. He was clearly frustrated with those in that church that were placing significance in the person who baptized them. Paul was glad that not many could be doing that in regard to him. He reprimanded them by making it clear, in no uncertain terms, that the only one who should be esteemed in connection with their water baptism was the one who was crucified for them; the Lord Jesus:

1 Cor 1:11-15

"For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name."
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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I respectfully disagree that the Acts 10 record shows that a person is saved the moment they believe:

Notice what Peter was saying in verse 43 when the Holy Ghost fell on them. What does the group hear, believe. and obey in connection with the name of the Lord? See verses 47-48. What occurred is paralleled in Peter's message on the Day of Pentecost. Peter at that time stated everyone who believed in Jesus was to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) He also stated that the promise that included receiving the Holy Ghost was for all those the Lord would call. (Acts 2:39)

Acts 10:43-48
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord...