Saved by Water

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FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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Both are necessary as evidenced by the word.
You don't understand either one. That's where the problem lies.

John the baptizer made a clear distinction between water baptism, which he performed, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which Jesus did.

Until you do understand that, you cannot understand anything about baptism.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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CS1 said:
you need to quote the word of God correctly.
I could make this look like you are saying that you don't need to quote the Word of God correctly. Which you don't, however.

But, your answer to CS1 of "no, I don't" was to this:
"this can all be very easily understood if you agree with those who have already been baptized in the name of the Father-Son, and Holy Spirit is valid. Do you agree that those baptized in this manner, their baptism is vailed and they are saved?

Yes or no?"

So you reject what Jesus told the 11 in Matt 28:20 then. Your problem goes much farther than simply quoting God's Word correctly.

It's about exegeting it properly. Plus, you refuse to accept the difference between water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The apostles obeyed Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 by water baptizing everyone in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why? Because the Lord Jesus is who was crucified for every single individual.
Do you reject the Trinity? Quit stalling and please answer this question.

If there is no significance in being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus why doesn't the biblical record have even one baptism where the phrase I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost used?
No one has said water baptism has "no significance", so please stop with your red herring.

It is significant for showing others that you are identified with Christ.

Do you actually believe the apostles would have disobeyed Jesus? They did not. They obeyed his command by baptizing everyone in his name.
We all know what Jesus told them. Why do you keep denying the Trinity.

Instead of verbally beating up people who are pointing out what scripture actually says maybe the wise thing to do would be to accept what is clearly there in the word. And be obedient. Consider Paul rebaptized those who had not been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Do you believe in the Trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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The NT water baptism has nothing to do with OT washings. Both water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost were required of NT believers.
This really reveals your lack of comprehension of the issue of baptisms. No person is in charge of being baptized with the Holy Spirit. That is what God does to the believer. The believer is in charge of being water baptized. They have to submit to it to be water baptized.

Peter commanded the Gentiles to be water baptized in the name of Jesus and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 10)
I've already given you a long explanation of this and yet you STILL FAIL to grasp the concept. How sad.

Peter did NO SUCH THING. He commanded them to be water baptized AFTER they already received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10-
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Can you admit that v.48 occurred AFTER v.44?

Then, le'ts again review Acts 11-
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized withthe Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

This was Peter's explanation to the Jews back in Jerusalem who were giving him a hard time for visiting a Gentile.

This passage PROVES that the Gentiles received the indwelling Holy Spirit BEFORE they got dunked in water.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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No. I do not. The apostles obeyed Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 by water baptizing everyone in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why? Because the Lord Jesus is who was crucified for every single individual.

If there is no significance in being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus why doesn't the biblical record have even one baptism where the phrase I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost used?

Do you actually believe the apostles would have disobeyed Jesus? They did not. They obeyed his command by baptizing everyone in his name.

Instead of verbally beating up people who are pointing out what scripture actually says maybe the wise thing to do would be to accept what is clearly there in the word. And be obedient. Consider Paul rebaptized those who had not been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
don't play the victim when I asked you a direct question which you refused to answer. Nowhere in scripture did Paul rebaptized anyone

it was separate baptism altogether. Read in Acts 19 these certain disciples were baptized with the baptism of John which was for repentance as Paul said in verse 4and Peter did in Acts 2.


Paul said to them have you been empowered with the Holy Spirit since you were saved? as he asked in verse 2 of Acts 19
"Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

Baptism was not mentioned until Paul asked which one did you receive? in verse 3.

the question was not were you baptized it was Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?

The word Baptized in greek is baptizō which is the term for water baptism in verse 3 and baptisma for the word Baptism in that same verse. Both are contextual for the water Baptism of John.

But if you read on Paul is not talking about that because HE says have you lam-ban'-o received not of water baptism but of power of the Holy Spirit as Apollos was shown a more perfect way in Acts chapter 18:25

25This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

The empowering we see in Acts 19 was not water baptism in the name of Jesus it was receiving the Holy Spirit as Jesus said to be a witness in Acts 1:8

we know that Acts 19 was to these saved disciples so they would be empowered to do the work of God, how can I say that?

well, what happened after they were empowered by the Holy Spirit?


Acts 19:7-10


7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
8 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God. 9 But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. 10 And this continued for two years so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.


Paul took these with him and did many power miracles there chapter says.
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
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You fail to realize that scripture itself expresses this truth. I'll make one last suggestion and walk away. Be obedient and be baptized
the way the apostles baptized everyone in the word; in the name of the Lord Jesus. I guarantee you won't be sorry you obeyed God's word.
more error, or rather the exact same error from you

you have been led astray by believing in the Oneness sect you belong to

this is not a biblically correct interpretation of baptism and neither is your belief that no one is saved until they are baptized

as has been pointed out to you multiple times now, baptism is SYMBOLIC and while believers should be baptized, they are still saved even if they are not baptized, should they be unable to be for any reason

only the sinless blood of Christ, that He shed on the cross for us, cleanses us from sin

you are promoting a false gospel and a false Jesus. Jesus does not need our help to save anyone
 

SophieT

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Dec 9, 2020
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don't play the victim when I asked you a direct question which you refused to answer.
wansvic will not answer direct questions

wansvic has not denied being of the Oneness sect

that means no Trinity, you must speak in tongues or you are not saved and you are not saved until you are baptized no matter what

we all know this by now and that is why this person will not answer a direct question. it reveals what they actually believe which is not the gospel as it is taught in scripture

you probably know this but we are all pretty fed up with the dodging that wansvic does while pretending to be so truthful
 

SophieT

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Dec 9, 2020
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The NT water baptism has nothing to do with OT washings. Both water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost were required of NT believers.
well you are NOT being truthful here

some time back, you presented an entire thread about the connection between OT and NT baptism. I have a good memory and I don't feel like looking that up....but I might anyway to prove your lack of truthfulness

we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe but you choose to deny that

20 For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. 21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. II Cor. 1

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1: 13-14

God seals us with His Spirit when we believe as indicated by scripture

but then you do not believe in God the Father so that would be a problem for you
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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wansvic will not answer direct questions

wansvic has not denied being of the Oneness sect

that means no Trinity, you must speak in tongues or you are not saved and you are not saved until you are baptized no matter what

we all know this by now and that is why this person will not answer a direct question. it reveals what they actually believe which is not the gospel as it is taught in scripture

you probably know this but we are all pretty fed up with the dodging that wansvic does while pretending to be so truthful
the good thing is this is plainly seen by those who are not as familiar with this doctrine, therefore it exposes the error even if one will not agree:) I have always asked those of Ones this question they ( most) do not say.

as an example :

I went to a Billy Graham crusade, heard the gospel message answered the call to come, and was saved according to Roman chapter 10:9-10 I respected of my sins asked Jesus to be my Lord and savior, and place my faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of The Lord.

a week later I was water baptized and went down in the water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Is my salvation and water baptism valid? Yes or no.

IF you have the courage to answer this question wansvic or anyone else of the Oneness perspective I would like to know.

Thank you
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
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the good thing is this is plainly seen by those who are not as familiar with this doctrine, therefore it exposes the error even if one will not agree:) I have always asked those of Ones this question they ( most) do not say.

as an example :

I went to a Billy Graham crusade, heard the gospel message answered the call to come, and was saved according to Roman chapter 10:9-10 I respected of my sins asked Jesus to be my Lord and savior, and place my faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of The Lord.

a week later I was water baptized and went down in the water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Is my salvation and water baptism valid? Yes or no.

IF you have the courage to answer this question wansvic or anyone else of the Oneness perspective I would like to know.

Thank you

exactly (y)(y)(y)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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don't play the victim when I asked you a direct question which you refused to answer. Nowhere in scripture did Paul rebaptized anyone

it was separate baptism altogether. Read in Acts 19 these certain disciples were baptized with the baptism of John which was for repentance as Paul said in verse 4and Peter did in Acts 2.


Paul said to them have you been empowered with the Holy Spirit since you were saved? as he asked in verse 2 of Acts 19
"Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

Baptism was not mentioned until Paul asked which one did you receive? in verse 3.

the question was not were you baptized it was Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?

The word Baptized in greek is baptizō which is the term for water baptism in verse 3 and baptisma for the word Baptism in that same verse. Both are contextual for the water Baptism of John.

But if you read on Paul is not talking about that because HE says have you lam-ban'-o received not of water baptism but of power of the Holy Spirit as Apollos was shown a more perfect way in Acts chapter 18:25

25This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

The empowering we see in Acts 19 was not water baptism in the name of Jesus it was receiving the Holy Spirit as Jesus said to be a witness in Acts 1:8

we know that Acts 19 was to these saved disciples so they would be empowered to do the work of God, how can I say that?

well, what happened after they were empowered by the Holy Spirit?


Acts 19:7-10


7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
8 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God. 9 But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departedAre from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. 10 And this continued for two years so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.


Paul took these with him and did many power miracles there chapter says.
I apologize. My comment about verbal abuse should not have been directed to you. I am not playing victim. There are people posting on this thread that find it necessary to be rude. It surprises me that people find it difficult to be civil to those with whom they disagree. So again, I apologize for the misdirected comment.

I do realize that Paul asked if the 12 had received the Holy Ghost SINCE they believed. My point is the record shows that the group was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. We can know this was water baptism because of other scriptures reference the use of Jesus' name in association with water baptism. Also, afterward Paul laid hands upon them and they received the Holy Ghost:

Acts 19:2-6
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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I apologize. My comment about verbal abuse should not have been directed to you. I am not playing victim. There are people posting on this thread that find it necessary to be rude. It surprises me that people find it difficult to be civil to those with whom they disagree. So again, I apologize for the misdirected comment.

I do realize that Paul asked if the 12 had received the Holy Ghost SINCE they believed. My point is the record shows that the group was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. We can know this was water baptism because of other scriptures reference the use of Jesus' name in association with water baptism. Also, afterward Paul laid hands upon them and they received the Holy Ghost:

Acts 19:2-6
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Ok I don't want to be rude so please forgive me if a have been that was not my intention, But I would like you to answer the question I asked directly
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Ok I don't want to be rude so please forgive me if a have been that was not my intention, But I would like you to answer the question I asked directly
I did answer directly in Post #1079. As I answered there I do not believe water baptism in any other way than in the name of Jesus is valid.

In addition, since the bible says that an individual's sins are remitted at that point it is clear that it is a requirement for salvation. See Acts 2:38 and 22:16.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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the good thing is this is plainly seen by those who are not as familiar with this doctrine, therefore it exposes the error even if one will not agree:) I have always asked those of Ones this question they ( most) do not say.

as an example :

I went to a Billy Graham crusade, heard the gospel message answered the call to come, and was saved according to Roman chapter 10:9-10 I respected of my sins asked Jesus to be my Lord and savior, and place my faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of The Lord.

a week later I was water baptized and went down in the water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Is my salvation and water baptism valid? Yes or no.

IF you have the courage to answer this question wansvic or anyone else of the Oneness perspective I would like to know.

Thank you
You won't get a direct answer.
I have asked many times yes or no and the response is basically no.
They don't say no but just quote the repeated verses.
Just like JW's, Mormoms and alike.

I even asked "Is it ok the baptised in the name of the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirt?

Was not answered.

He has been asked many times if he believes in the Trinity.
Yes or no?

No direct answer.

We will not get one.

So one has to ask the question

Why not?

I presented the case to him about that if you cannot why not?
Basically you are not willing to do so because you know you will be banned here.

So to surmise one has to conclude based on the non response to questions asked.

Baptism as prescribed by Jesus in Matthew is not correct.
If done so then you are not saved and need to rebaptised.

The Trinity is not the trinity and this oneness thing.
Thanks to @SophieT for explaining this, now I know what oneses means.

Yet to hear the answer as to whether tongues save.

I told him what I thought concerning the above and I said no to all those questions.

At least I had, you have many on here have said yes or no.

We stand on our convictions and quote the Bible.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
3,041
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You won't get a direct answer.
I have asked many times yes or no and the response is basically no.
They don't say no but just quote the repeated verses.
Just like JW's, Mormoms and alike.

I even asked "Is it ok the baptised in the name of the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirt?

Was not answered.

He has been asked many times if he believes in the Trinity.
Yes or no?

No direct answer.

We will not get one.

So one has to ask the question

Why not?

I presented the case to him about that if you cannot why not?
Basically you are not willing to do so because you know you will be banned here.

So to surmise one has to conclude based on the non response to questions asked.

Baptism as prescribed by Jesus in Matthew is not correct.
If done so then you are not saved and need to rebaptised.

The Trinity is not the trinity and this oneness thing.
Thanks to @SophieT for explaining this, now I know what oneses means.

Yet to hear the answer as to whether tongues save.

I told him what I thought concerning the above and I said no to all those questions.

At least I had, you have many on here have said yes or no.

We stand on our convictions and quote the Bible.
I think you may have missed some of my posts. See #1032 and #1033
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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I did answer directly in Post #1079. As I answered there I do not believe water baptism in any other way than in the name of Jesus is valid.

In addition, since the bible says that an individual's sins are remitted at that point it is clear that it is a requirement for salvation. See Acts 2:38 and 22:16.

thank you for your honesty.

So I am not saved because I was not baptized in the name of Jesus, when I was water baptized; as you believe the word of God teaches? Therefore I do not have the Holy Spirt that bare witness of my salvation or relationship with God? is that correct



Roman 8:16

says The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,550
3,000
113
You won't get a direct answer.
I have asked many times yes or no and the response is basically no.
They don't say no but just quote the repeated verses.
Just like JW's, Mormoms and alike.

I even asked "Is it ok the baptised in the name of the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirt?

Was not answered.

He has been asked many times if he believes in the Trinity.
Yes or no?

No direct answer.

We will not get one.

So one has to ask the question

Why not?

I presented the case to him about that if you cannot why not?
Basically you are not willing to do so because you know you will be banned here.

So to surmise one has to conclude based on the non response to questions asked.

Baptism as prescribed by Jesus in Matthew is not correct.
If done so then you are not saved and need to rebaptised.

The Trinity is not the trinity and this oneness thing.
Thanks to @SophieT for explaining this, now I know what oneses means.

Yet to hear the answer as to whether tongues save.

I told him what I thought concerning the above and I said no to all those questions.

At least I had, you have many on here have said yes or no.

We stand on our convictions and quote the Bible.

he did :)