Science and the Teachings of Jesus

justoneman · Sep 5, 2017

Let me put it to you this way:

Einstein: "Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind."

Einstein was a mathematician. When he thought about the universe (E=MC^2) he knows that, whether it is math or language, both sides of the "equation" must be equal.

When he says science without religion is lame; he is saying the pursuit of science itself without allowing it to guide religious belief is lame: what's the point of knowing the "how" if not the "why"? When he says religion without science is blind, he is saying the pursuit of spirituality without science to measure it against is blind.

If you are going to neglect science and not juxtapose religion against it (as in an equation), you will never come up anything resembling what is actually true.

I am not saying the bible is unscientific in itself; but failure to apply science to it is the problem.

For example the Exodus account is (as we now know) not an actual event; it is just a story. Adam and Eve and the entire Genesis account is also a story; it didn't literally happen the way it is written.

It is like one of Jesus' disciples, upon having the story of the boy who cried wolf recited to them, asking questions like "what is the heritage of the boy? how old was he? who were his parents? what species of wolf? is there any archaeological evidence etc." All nonsense questions which entirely miss the point; the Bible is a NARRATIVE.

The story of Jesus is a NARRATIVE; the gospels are accounts 30-100 years after Jesus' death. This all happened in the dark ages where women were either married into rich families, or joined the sex trade, or buried alive. Human consciousness was nowhere near what it is today; if you want to continue to believe that these people knew more about the nature of existence than we do now, you're living in the past.

There is nothing complicated in the Bible; Einstein himself suggested it was mostly nonsense; because the man upon which the NT/Gospels was erected by the Romans as God in the flesh is exactly the sort of thing Moses warns against to the Israelites which, lo and behold, got it wrong, and we are descendants from those people, including the religions that were developed afterward.

Do you realize where Jesus was the majority of his adolescent life? He was studying in India. Do you now realize why even Jesus himself said it is not appropriate to call him "good"?

The Bible is a collection of books written by men according to the times. I'm sorry if this somehow upsets you, but if you haven't noticed, that Bible, and indeed books like the Qur'an (which makes the exact same claim to divinity) is exactly what has caused the past 2000 years of this religious nonsense; empires dumping mass dogmas onto the people in order for them to control the masses.

I read as many sources as I can to ensure I am avoiding dogma; to compare and contrast, as it is only this pursuit which allows you to see things unsullied by dogma.

That's why Jesus' teachings are meant to show you the immensity of being "just one man", which is why I chose this name; it's all he ever claimed to be, and I claim the same for myself; because it is only in the realization that you are one man will you understand the immensity of it.

However, you may believe what you want to believe, and I will do the same, but if you're going to continue with the ad hominem simply because you don't agree with what I say, I might suggest you simply ignore me and let me dig my own hole as it were.

Dreamstate · Sep 5, 2017

justoneman said:

Let me put it to you this way:

Einstein: "Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind."

Einstein was a mathematician. When he thought about the universe (E=MC^2) he knows that, whether it is math or language, both sides of the "equation" must be equal.

When he says science without religion is lame; he is saying the pursuit of science itself without allowing it to guide religious belief is lame: what's the point of knowing the "how" if not the "why"? When he says religion without science is blind, he is saying the pursuit of spirituality without science to measure it against is blind.

If you are going to neglect science and not juxtapose religion against it (as in an equation), you will never come up anything resembling what is actually true.

I am not saying the bible is unscientific in itself; but failure to apply science to it is the problem.

For example the Exodus account is (as we now know) not an actual event; it is just a story. Adam and Eve and the entire Genesis account is also a story; it didn't literally happen the way it is written.

It is like one of Jesus' disciples, upon having the story of the boy who cried wolf recited to them, asking questions like "what is the heritage of the boy? how old was he? who were his parents? what species of wolf? is there any archaeological evidence etc." All nonsense questions which entirely miss the point; the Bible is a NARRATIVE.

The story of Jesus is a NARRATIVE; the gospels are accounts 30-100 years after Jesus' death. This all happened in the dark ages where women were either married into rich families, or joined the sex trade, or buried alive. Human consciousness was nowhere near what it is today; if you want to continue to believe that these people knew more about the nature of existence than we do now, you're living in the past.

There is nothing complicated in the Bible; Einstein himself suggested it was mostly nonsense; because the man upon which the NT/Gospels was erected by the Romans as God in the flesh is exactly the sort of thing Moses warns against to the Israelites which, lo and behold, got it wrong, and we are descendants from those people, including the religions that were developed afterward.

Do you realize where Jesus was the majority of his adolescent life? He was studying in India. Do you now realize why even Jesus himself said it is not appropriate to call him "good"?

The Bible is a collection of books written by men according to the times. I'm sorry if this somehow upsets you, but if you haven't noticed, that Bible, and indeed books like the Qur'an (which makes the exact same claim to divinity) is exactly what has caused the past 2000 years of this religious nonsense; empires dumping mass dogmas onto the people in order for them to control the masses.

I read as many sources as I can to ensure I am avoiding dogma; to compare and contrast, as it is only this pursuit which allows you to see things unsullied by dogma.

That's why Jesus' teachings are meant to show you the immensity of being "just one man", which is why I chose this name; it's all he ever claimed to be, and I claim the same for myself; because it is only in the realization that you are one man will you understand the immensity of it.

However, you may believe what you want to believe, and I will do the same, but if you're going to continue with the ad hominem simply because you don't agree with what I say, I might suggest you simply ignore me and let me dig my own hole as it were.

You don't need to be a scientist to become a high ranking Christian, you can be a man with no job and low qualifications, Peter was just a fisherman.

Huckleberry · Sep 5, 2017

justoneman said:

This is my first post here; while I am not a "Christian", I am interested in the teachings of Jesus because they (seem to me) to involve very basic yogic principles.

#1. Your body is a lamp; you are the light of the world.
If your body is a "lamp" which is emitting its own "light", and "you" are the light of all that you perceive "the world", is this not the first yogic concept introduced to any initiate, that he/she experience everything as a part of themselves? It seems to me this analogy involving a lamp is rather straightforwardly suggesting the basis of your whole entire life experience is essentially yours / within you.
Science: Now knowing the "universe" contains no matter (it is all one energy), time (causality) is relative to the observer, consciousness itself is what collapses waveform potential into a definite state (observation), the cosmos is one gigantic hologram etc. does it not follow that every single individual *is* the light of their own world/experience?

#2. The kingdom of heaven is within you.
If your five sense organs are all external bound (thereby only showing you creation as a means of comparison to you; not the way it actually is) then is not the only way to the "kingdom of heaven" to enter within yourself?
Science: The kingdom (as Jesus stated) is not a place you can point to (geographical place) as Jesus claimed; if individuals actively "create" their own experience through their own choices, does this not seem appropriate?

#3. The light of the body is the eye; if it be single/good, your whole body will fill with light.
If your "light" (perception) can only be increased by practicing the "single eye" (treating the whole of creation as one energy), is this not a fundamental yogic principle?
Science: If the holographic universe you perceive is being "projected" outward from your own body, would it not follow that whatever manifests before you is merely a product of your own light?

I only read to your third point because it's obvious
that your here merely to ridicule and set up straw men.
Slow day at AtheistChat?

Dreamstate · Sep 5, 2017

Besides, the hierarchy in Christianity is similar to the one in the scientific world in some ways, some Christians have more knowledge about parts of The Bible than I do and I have more knowledge of parts of The Bible than some other Christians do, we are gifted in different ways and have different duties depending on what God wants us to do. Yes a basic knowledge of the world is needed to understand The Bible, like what things are and how they compare to each other but God doesn't need all Christians to have a university education in science.

Dreamstate · Sep 5, 2017

1 Corinthians 12

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

Blain · Sep 5, 2017

Well just one man I honestly thought you were a non religious universal but tbh the whole idea of re incarnation based upon how we live our lives and all you spoke about in my question about after death makes me think that is not so at least not entirely. Honestly I noticed that some of the things you say while not scripture are of scripture yet you deny the testimony of Jesus while at the same time you seem to hold him as a good role model of sorts.

The logic and science that seems to blend with a bit of Christianity and humanism and Universalism is probably the best I can describe as what I feel You believe in and I know you have already said you are not religious but I am just being honest.
I am not judging you in any way of course but I do have to admit your views are very unique to anything I have ever heard

justoneman · Sep 5, 2017

loveme1 said:

Just one man, what is the basis of your post to Blain?

Is this based on gained knowledge or revelation?

It is based in personal experience; one of my hobbies is music, so timing/tempo is something I have natural sensitivity to. Over time, I recognize a progressive difficulty in playing slow passages in perfect time because, well, time is relative to the observer.

When I researched this topic on my own, I found the answers I was looking for; of course time is relative to the observer, it can not operate any other way. People who sing/perform are talented because of their mastery of time.

For example if you take someone like Franz Liszt (Hungarian pianist), he was known as having the ability to play a piece of music, beginning to end, in absolutely precise tempo/time. When you do this, you are effectively "changing" the listener's own perception of time by making them become engrossed in the composer's tempo. This "phenomena" was termed after the composer himself: Lisztomania. You can look into it more on your own if you are interested in exactly what this kind of mind could do to an entire hall of an audience.

As I got older I recognized that time moves faster relative to me. It is the same with all people; they just don't recognize it because the change is extremely subtle over long periods of time. But, this change becomes more and more obvious, and rapidly increases as you get closer to your physical death.

I agree that as i age time seems faster.. and many elders would always warn me this would happen... and it is so. Hehe.

Are you in to some type of mystic belief?

I don't follow any particular mystic belief; I simply identify myself as a piece of life on the planet, and treat the rest as "Father". I am constantly asking why to absolutely everything. When it comes to mysticism; I am aware that all human experience is generated from within, thus transformation of the human experience begins within; no amount of worshiping Jesus (which he never asked anyone to do; on the contrary, he wouldn't even let you call him good!) is going to take you where you need to go, which is into yourself, because that's where your entire experience of life is.

See if you experienced everything as a part of yourself (as Jesus did), do you really need a bearded man holding two stone tablets to tell you not to rape, torture, steal, lie etc. The whole fundamental concept that must be understand by any human being as it pertains to life is whatever he/she perceives is fundamentally within themselves. This includes dogma given to them by their authorities and scriptures.

I will try to put it this way:

If you are to imagine a child in a sandbox; he/she can dig a hole, build a castle, draw a picture etc. Thus he/she is the creator and can use the sand for whatever he/she wants. But, did he/she create the sandbox? The sand? No, this is the "creator" of the universe, which neither you or I can claim, but we are like children placed in that sand box: your life, and what you make of it, is entirely your choice. The same creative mechanism which allows you to dream at night is what is creating your passing experience; it is just a matter of how conscious you are (most people are only 6-8% conscious, rest is unconscious/subconscious). That is why dogmas are so effective; once they get caught into the unconscious/subconscious, you're not even aware it's happening.

I have given you a few questions but I'm just trying to grasp.

Thank you kindly.

Thank you for not going the ad hominem route, as others have.

Dreamstate · Sep 5, 2017

justoneman said:

I'm sorry to disappoint you, Christians are under the guidance of God's law, not man made weak rules.

justoneman · Sep 5, 2017

Blain said:

Well just one man I honestly thought you were a non religious universal but tbh the whole idea of re incarnation based upon how we live our lives and all you spoke about in my question about after death makes me think that is not so at least not entirely. Honestly I noticed that some of the things you say while not scripture are of scripture yet you deny the testimony of Jesus while at the same time you seem to hold him as a good role model of sorts.

Maybe I can be more clear; I am not religious in the sense most people use the word "religious", I do however treat the whole of life as spiritual. When your experience of life transcends the five sense organs, this is what it means to be spiritual. The only way to do this is practicing the single eye; perceive all as one. When you do this, the third eye is perception beyond the physical; you "see" things that are not in any way physical. Yes the third eye is associated with the pineal gland (did you know the bible talks about the pineal gland?) but the third eye is not a physical eye; it is merely a sense perception which transcends the physical entirely. I don't want to talk about that because that's something even I could never, ever explain. As such, nobody would ever be able to say "he believes x" because I would never collapse myself into a category. That's why I say I am just one man in the cosmos.

I might add; there is nothing religious about reincarnation, as it is just the natural order of things. The whole idea of "religion" or "spirituality" is to END this cycle of birth and death, which if you read your Bible, it tells you exactly what CAUSES death (forbidden fruit).

The logic and science that seems to blend with a bit of Christianity and humanism and Universalism is probably the best I can describe as what I feel You believe in and I know you have already said you are not religious but I am just being honest.
I am not judging you in any way of course but I do have to admit your views are very unique to anything I have ever heard

You say the word believe a lot; I do not believe anything: what I know I know, what I do not know I do not know. If you start at the point "actually I don't know anything at all" then the possibility of knowing becomes a living reality.

But the moment you start going on about "Jesus is Lord/Savior and I know because the Bible, end of story", this is a very unfortunate (but necessary) state for one to be in; it is the forbidden fruits slowly eating away at them until they realize it is they who are in the driver's seat, not God.

A_Friend_In_Christ · Sep 5, 2017

Hi grumpy people...

A_Friend_In_Christ · Sep 5, 2017

A canadian troll?

Dreamstate · Sep 5, 2017

justoneman said:

lol have you ever looked at the definitions of the word "believe"? You don't even have a good enough knowledge of English, you don't really know if what you have read is true, you just blindly follow because you like the sound of things and they are popular, how silly !

Dreamstate · Sep 5, 2017

A_Friend_In_Christ said:

what do you want ?

loverofjesus27 · Sep 5, 2017

*cries like a baby

Dreamstate · Sep 5, 2017

loverofjesus27 said:

O I'm sorry dear, I'll bake some buns, make you feel better

loverofjesus27 · Sep 5, 2017

Hhaahahah no, turns out i'm grumpy too.

Magenta · Sep 5, 2017

justoneman said:

You believe you know things that you do not, for you believe much hearsay and are incapable even of distinguishing that fact. The fact is that Jesus reveals Himself to people; we know Him through His very own revelation.

dcontroversal · Sep 5, 2017

justoneman said:

Let me put it to you this way:

Einstein: "Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind."

Einstein was a mathematician. When he thought about the universe (E=MC^2) he knows that, whether it is math or language, both sides of the "equation" must be equal.

When he says science without religion is lame; he is saying the pursuit of science itself without allowing it to guide religious belief is lame: what's the point of knowing the "how" if not the "why"? When he says religion without science is blind, he is saying the pursuit of spirituality without science to measure it against is blind.

If you are going to neglect science and not juxtapose religion against it (as in an equation), you will never come up anything resembling what is actually true.

I am not saying the bible is unscientific in itself; but failure to apply science to it is the problem.

For example the Exodus account is (as we now know) not an actual event; it is just a story. Adam and Eve and the entire Genesis account is also a story; it didn't literally happen the way it is written.

It is like one of Jesus' disciples, upon having the story of the boy who cried wolf recited to them, asking questions like "what is the heritage of the boy? how old was he? who were his parents? what species of wolf? is there any archaeological evidence etc." All nonsense questions which entirely miss the point; the Bible is a NARRATIVE.

The story of Jesus is a NARRATIVE; the gospels are accounts 30-100 years after Jesus' death. This all happened in the dark ages where women were either married into rich families, or joined the sex trade, or buried alive. Human consciousness was nowhere near what it is today; if you want to continue to believe that these people knew more about the nature of existence than we do now, you're living in the past.

There is nothing complicated in the Bible; Einstein himself suggested it was mostly nonsense; because the man upon which the NT/Gospels was erected by the Romans as God in the flesh is exactly the sort of thing Moses warns against to the Israelites which, lo and behold, got it wrong, and we are descendants from those people, including the religions that were developed afterward.

Do you realize where Jesus was the majority of his adolescent life? He was studying in India. Do you now realize why even Jesus himself said it is not appropriate to call him "good"?

The Bible is a collection of books written by men according to the times. I'm sorry if this somehow upsets you, but if you haven't noticed, that Bible, and indeed books like the Qur'an (which makes the exact same claim to divinity) is exactly what has caused the past 2000 years of this religious nonsense; empires dumping mass dogmas onto the people in order for them to control the masses.

I read as many sources as I can to ensure I am avoiding dogma; to compare and contrast, as it is only this pursuit which allows you to see things unsullied by dogma.

That's why Jesus' teachings are meant to show you the immensity of being "just one man", which is why I chose this name; it's all he ever claimed to be, and I claim the same for myself; because it is only in the realization that you are one man will you understand the immensity of it.

However, you may believe what you want to believe, and I will do the same, but if you're going to continue with the ad hominem simply because you don't agree with what I say, I might suggest you simply ignore me and let me dig my own hole as it were.

They sell shovels at Home Depot.....but from the looks of it....you do not need a shovel

dcontroversal · Sep 5, 2017

Huckleberry said:

I really liked the Jesus studied in India point.......somebody been hitting the Hookah a little too much......

Dreamstate · Sep 5, 2017

loverofjesus27 said:

lol I don't know how I will cope with that dear, I think I'll need a good cup of tea to calm down.

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