Scripture and our New Nature

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Galatians2-20

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2013
261
19
18
#21
The "old nature" or "sin nature" is nothing more than our own selfish thoughts, desires, & emotions. Once saved, we recieve a "new nature", also described in scripture to be "the divine nature (see 2nd Peter 1), which is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Unfortunately, some teach & believe (Wesleyans & Hyper Grace advocates) that the old nature can be eradicated or done away with. I have yet to find anything like that in scripture. In fact, there is no such thing as a "sin nature" that exists apart from our own basic human thoughts, desires, and emotions. The "sin nature" is nothing more than human nature that is focused on self. It is impossible to eradicate our human nature apart from death. ;)

That is exactly why scripture teaches us that we can and should crucify the old nature by walking in the new.


Matt. 16:24 - "Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me." (*also see Mark 8:34 & Luke 9:23)

Romans 6:6 - "...knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin"

Ephesians 4:22 - "that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit"

Gal. 5:24 - "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

Col. 3:5 - "
Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry."

Scripture also gives us several examples of how to crucify the the old man:

Gal. 5:16 - "So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh"



1 John 3:6 - "No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

Before salvation, we are self centered. However, after salvation we are to be Christ centered. Before salvation, we had no other choice but to live in "the flesh" because "the flesh" is our human nature apart from the presence of God. However, after salvation we are given an alternative. Christ's sacrifice has purchased for us the opportunity to fellowship with God through abiding in Him (Christ). This is what Jesus meant when he states in John 14:6 when He says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. There no other way to the Father but through Me."

After Jesus makes this proclaimation, He then finishes out the 14th chapter by talking about the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. He then follows this up by talking about the importance of abiding in the vine (who is Christ) in chapter 15.

The Apostle Peter also speaks of this in 2nd Peter, chapter 1, verses 2-11:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

While the "old man" does indeed reside in the believer after salvation, scripture clearly states that by abiding in Christ the believer now has access to everything necessary to crucify the flesh. Therefore, after salvation, committing sin can and should be avoided. However, it can only be avoided by abiding in Christ which is exactly what the apostle Paul meant when he states in 2 Cor. 12:9
"But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."

Believers should make every effort to maintain a level of awareness of the presence of God throughout each day, every day. Which explains why Pauls say the following in Col. 3:23 "Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men..."

However, when we are tempted, we are to immediately place our thoughts and affections upon the Lord:

1 Cor. 10:13 - " No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it"

Col. 3:2 - "Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth."

Phil. 4: 6, 7 - "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."




 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#22
[URL="http://biblia.com/books/ESV/Galatians2-20" said:
Galatians2-20[/URL];2228396]The "old nature" or "sin nature" is nothing more than our own selfish thoughts, desires, & emotions. Once saved, we recieve a "new nature", also described in scripture to be "the divine nature (see 2nd Peter 1), which is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Unfortunately, some teach & believe (Wesleyans & Hyper Grace advocates) that the old nature can be eradicated or done away with. I have yet to find anything like that in scripture. In fact, there is no such thing as a "sin nature" that exists apart from our own basic human thoughts, desires, and emotions. The "sin nature" is nothing more than human nature that is focused on self. It is impossible to eradicate our human nature apart from death. ;)

That is exactly why scripture teaches us that we can and should crucify the old nature by walking in the new.


Matt. 16:24 - "Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me." (*also see Mark 8:34 & Luke 9:23)

Romans 6:6 - "...knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin"

Ephesians 4:22 - "that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit"

Gal. 5:24 - "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

Col. 3:5 - "
Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry."

Scripture also gives us several examples of how to crucify the the old man:

Gal. 5:16 - "So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh"



1 John 3:6 - "No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

Before salvation, we are self centered. However, after salvation we are to be Christ centered. Before salvation, we had no other choice but to live in "the flesh" because "the flesh" is our human nature apart from the presence of God. However, after salvation we are given an alternative. Christ's sacrifice has purchased for us the opportunity to fellowship with God through abiding in Him (Christ). This is what Jesus meant when he states in John 14:6 when He says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. There no other way to the Father but through Me."

After Jesus makes this proclaimation, He then finishes out the 14th chapter by talking about the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. He then follows this up by talking about the importance of abiding in the vine (who is Christ) in chapter 15.

The Apostle Peter also speaks of this in 2nd Peter, chapter 1, verses 2-11:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

While the "old man" does indeed reside in the believer after salvation, scripture clearly states that by abiding in Christ the believer now has access to everything necessary to crucify the flesh. Therefore, after salvation, committing sin can and should be avoided. However, it can only be avoided by abiding in Christ which is exactly what the apostle Paul meant when he states in 2 Cor. 12:9
"But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."

Believers should make every effort to maintain a level of awareness of the presence of God throughout each day, every day. Which explains why Pauls say the following in Col. 3:23 "Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men..."

However, when we are tempted, we are to immediately place our thoughts and affections upon the Lord:

1 Cor. 10:13 - " No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it"

Col. 3:2 - "Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth."

Phil. 4: 6, 7 - "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."




And all these things we learn through Scripture...imagine that (no, no 'ponder' that :) )
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,947
113
#23
Your right the scriptures are not the problem we are, I myself have seen the power that the bible holds I have experienced the holy fire that comes from it. When I was young in faith or at least younger as I am only three years in faith I had a certain vision. I was on my bed with my bible in front of me and suddenly it happened out of nowhere I saw the bible as I never have before I saw God's love flowing within the pages like a river I saw vast and amazing power in the scriptures and then I saw a blazing fire that came from the bible and consumed me. I then had eyes of blazing fire and with these eyes I could see I mean really see, I could read the bible and there was nothing I could not understand there were no secrets in it I couldnt see I saw through the veil that many of us are looking through.

This vision is how I learned of the power the bible holds, I do not have the right eyes to see yet but perhaps as in that vision one day I will
Blain, how much have you read the Bible since I challenged you to actually read it - a year ago?? two years ago??

I bet you have rarely picked it up, instead relying on your visions, and holding the Bible at arms length, because there are some people who misinterpret it.

Experience never trumps the Word in the Bible. God left us the Bible for a reason - so we would have instruction to learn and grow, to study and show ourselves workers approved by God.

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16-17

To say nothing of the fact that blessed is he who has not seen and believed! You rely too much on your visions and dreams and not on the Word of God. Again, I challenge you to actually read the Bible. I think you will be surprised the way God teaches and leads you through his Word.

"
Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29

And in spite of all my praying, my music ministry, and my church ministries, I consider a day without reading the Word of God to be a lost and useless day!
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#24
I like the point you are making in the OP. I'm curious, regarding 1 John 5:7 and the controversy over authenticity, are you aware of it?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#25
Blain, how much have you read the Bible since I challenged you to actually read it - a year ago?? two years ago??

I bet you have rarely picked it up, instead relying on your visions, and holding the Bible at arms length, because there are some people who misinterpret it.

Experience never trumps the Word in the Bible. God left us the Bible for a reason - so we would have instruction to learn and grow, to study and show ourselves workers approved by God.

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16-17

To say nothing of the fact that blessed is he who has not seen and believed! You rely too much on your visions and dreams and not on the Word of God. Again, I challenge you to actually read the Bible. I think you will be surprised the way God teaches and leads you through his Word.

"
Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29

And in spite of all my praying, my music ministry, and my church ministries, I consider a day without reading the Word of God to be a lost and useless day!
Just because I speak of what he has shown me doesnt mean I haven't been reading my bible, you cannot assume something like that. How many times have I quoted scripture here in the bdf to make a point or to help someone understand something? How many times have I spoken of the meaning of a certain scripture that was quoted and being misused or misinterpreted in the wrong way? If I did not read the bible I could do none of these things, I dont rely on my dreams and visions in fact my mind is rarely on them but when I feel lead to share them I do so and I understand that dreams and visions are not exactly encouraged here but neither was Jesus's teachings.

God will speak to us however he pleases and he always has a reason for it even if it doesnt make sense to us or even if it doesnt seem biblical to others. Even if I never received such dreams or visions my love and my fire for him would be the same, I didnt fall madly in love with him because of any dream or vision I fell madly in love with him simply because of who he is because I learned his nature.
 
C

Cruisyazz

Guest
#26
Blain, how much have you read the Bible since I challenged you to actually read it - a year ago?? two years ago??

I bet you have rarely picked it up, instead relying on your visions, and holding the Bible at arms length, because there are some people who misinterpret it.

Experience never trumps the Word in the Bible. God left us the Bible for a reason - so we would have instruction to learn and grow, to study and show ourselves workers approved by God.

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16-17

To say nothing of the fact that blessed is he who has not seen and believed! You rely too much on your visions and dreams and not on the Word of God. Again, I challenge you to actually read the Bible. I think you will be surprised the way God teaches and leads you through his Word.

"
Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29


And in spite of all my praying, my music ministry, and my church ministries, I consider a day without reading the Word of God to be a lost and useless day!
After reading this thread to me Blain has shown more wisdom and knowledge of the Word than all of you put together.

The fact that he promotes the love of the Lord and of others above anything else is testament in itself. Take what you want out of the bible, if you don't have love you have nothing.... seek love above all else
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#27
After reading this thread to me Blain has shown more wisdom and knowledge of the Word than all of you put together.

The fact that he promotes the love of the Lord and of others above anything else is testament in itself. Take what you want out of the bible, if you don't have love you have nothing.... seek love above all else
If I have wisdom it is not my own just as if I have strength it is not my own it is God's, I was shocked to see your last words seek love above all else as I had only just now messaged you about the same thing and hadn't seen this post here before that. It seems God is speaking to you:)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#28
I like the point you are making in the OP. I'm curious, regarding 1 John 5:7 and the controversy over authenticity, are you aware of it?
Yes I am. The passage was convenient though although I could produce other non controversial verses.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#29
I didnt fall madly in love with him because of any dream or vision I fell madly in love with him simply because of who he is because I learned his nature.
Then how did you learn His nature?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#30
Then how did you learn His nature?
I learned his nature by spending lots of time with him by seeking him out every day exhaustively because I hungered and craved to know him to have a love with him like no other. He was everything to me I only desired him I only saw him I only loved him I had and have a very greedy hungry endearing heart for him, this how I learned who he is
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#31
I learned his nature by spending lots of time with him by seeking him out every day exhaustively because I hungered and craved to know him to have a love with him like no other. He was everything to me I only desired him I only saw him I only loved him I had and have a very greedy hungry endearing heart for him, this how I learned who he is
I'm still curious why you exclude God's Word in learning of God's nature but usually exalt your own experiences?

2 Peter 1:4 (KJV) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
26,340
113
#32
Christianity today thinks that quitting smoking,drinking,cussing,cleaning up their lives,morality,being nice and sweet, giving,serving........is spiritual. And none of it is spiritual in and of itself.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)


:)

 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#33
I'm still curious why you exclude God's Word in learning of God's nature but usually exalt your own experiences?

2 Peter 1:4 (KJV) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Exclude God's word? Have not read what I have said about the bible? and how it is the very heart of God himself? the power each scripture alone has? if anything I have exalted the scriptures, when you are holding the bible in your hands how do you see it? Do you see it as the very heart of God himself? when you read the scriptures or when you use it how do you see it as how do you treat it? The bible to me is not a book it is not a guideline as to what it is to be a Christian it is not simply scriptures it a holy embodiment of God himself the physical manifestation of his heart and yet how ppl mis use it how they use something so holy and so precious as a weapon against each other how they twist it for their own gain.

The bible is one of the ways I spent time with him the bible and the secrets it holds are far deeper and far more amazing and beautiful than any of us know no matter how long we have studied it or how strongly we cherish it. I have said it before the bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many many layers and how few of us can even see past the second or third layer including me. I have warned ppl who misuse the scriptures and who use it so often without considering how they are using it that the scriptures is not a toy and I would be careful as to how you use it. I may have such experiences as i have described but read what I have just said about the word of God tell me if I exclude the bible
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#34
Exclude God's word? Have not read what I have said about the bible? and how it is the very heart of God himself? the power each scripture alone has? if anything I have exalted the scriptures, when you are holding the bible in your hands how do you see it? Do you see it as the very heart of God himself? when you read the scriptures or when you use it how do you see it as how do you treat it? The bible to me is not a book it is not a guideline as to what it is to be a Christian it is not simply scriptures it a holy embodiment of God himself the physical manifestation of his heart and yet how ppl mis use it how they use something so holy and so precious as a weapon against each other how they twist it for their own gain.

The bible is one of the ways I spent time with him the bible and the secrets it holds are far deeper and far more amazing and beautiful than any of us know no matter how long we have studied it or how strongly we cherish it. I have said it before the bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many many layers and how few of us can even see past the second or third layer including me. I have warned ppl who misuse the scriptures and who use it so often without considering how they are using it that the scriptures is not a toy and I would be careful as to how you use it. I may have such experiences as i have described but read what I have just said about the word of God tell me if I exclude the bible


Well said Blain, yes the word of God should be looked at as more than just a book or guideline.

They are God Himself imprinted into scripture for us to where we should have just as much love and trust in following the words as we do Him personally. If we love and trust Him we should also trust and obey what He said, as for example even Jesus said His words was not of His own but are from God. So when Jesus commanded baptism in Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 that was God who commanded it !!!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#35
I learned his nature by spending lots of time with him by seeking him out every day exhaustively because I hungered and craved to know him to have a love with him like no other. He was everything to me I only desired him I only saw him I only loved him I had and have a very greedy hungry endearing heart for him, this how I learned who he is
I'm still curious why you exclude God's Word in learning of God's nature but usually exalt your own experiences?

2 Peter 1:4 (KJV) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Exclude God's word? Have not read what I have said about the bible? and how it is the very heart of God himself? the power each scripture alone has? if anything I have exalted the scriptures, when you are holding the bible in your hands how do you see it? Do you see it as the very heart of God himself? when you read the scriptures or when you use it how do you see it as how do you treat it? The bible to me is not a book it is not a guideline as to what it is to be a Christian it is not simply scriptures it a holy embodiment of God himself the physical manifestation of his heart and yet how ppl mis use it how they use something so holy and so precious as a weapon against each other how they twist it for their own gain.

The bible is one of the ways I spent time with him the bible and the secrets it holds are far deeper and far more amazing and beautiful than any of us know no matter how long we have studied it or how strongly we cherish it. I have said it before the bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many many layers and how few of us can even see past the second or third layer including me. I have warned ppl who misuse the scriptures and who use it so often without considering how they are using it that the scriptures is not a toy and I would be careful as to how you use it. I may have such experiences as i have described but read what I have just said about the word of God tell me if I exclude the bible
your first answer made no reference to Scripture. That's what got me wondering. I brought up the passage in Peter, hoping you'd comment on it but instead you answer with how you view the bible, but that wasn't my point.

I'll try asking differently. Can you learn of God's nature apart from Scripture? If so, how will you know it is God's nature?
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#36
There seems to be a dangerous teaching that keeps lurching it's head here on CC and that is the downplay for the need of Scripture since we have the new nature and the Holy Spirit.

Let me say first that we also have abiding with us the old nature/man until that day in Glory (unless you are one of those deceived individuals who believe they have attained perfection here).

And because of that old nature there is always that battle in us of 'what is God's will?', 'which doctrine is true?', 'how do I know this person is speaking truth or lies?' etc. Our old nature tells us one thing our new nature tells us something different and in the heat of battle confusion sets in.

This is why reading and holding God's Word in our heart is so important. It becomes a confirmation to what our new man is telling us and we can step forth in confidence saying "The Scripture says...", rather than "I feel..." or "my heart is telling me" etc.
it's actually vital for us to study scriptures, by that clearly hearing from God at least as often as we answer our stomach cry for food.
1 Timothy 4:13-16 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


There is ample doctrine to heed concerning the handling of that old man/nature, or former state of desperation. I am commanded to reckon that old man of sin is dead and buried, not to dig him up to be allowed to say anything to me.
Romans 6:9-12 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


What does "reckon" mean? I stopped at a small yard sale because I spotted a very expensive bass fishing rod with a Shimano Calais digital reel. Those are easy to spot, the reel retailing over $600, something I'd admired, but not willing to purchase. There were no prices showing on anything. I picked it up, realized the whole thing was new, probably unused. The owner came up. I asked her the price. She said "How much do you have on you?" I was fairly certain I had about $110. "I'll take it." I was astonished. "Ma'am, that rod and reel cost you nearly a thousand dollars new." She said "Give me $110 if you have that much, more if there's more in your pocket, no checks." So I did. What I reckoned was enough for her., and I told her accurately enough. It wasn't a mere guess, for I generally have an idea of what I am still carrying.

Here's more about that to study around:
Romans 6:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Ephesians 4:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;


Colossians 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#37
>>>>What does "reckon" mean? I stopped at a small yard sale because I spotted a very expensive bass fishing rod with a Shimano Calais digital reel. Those are easy to spot, the reel retailing over $600, something I'd admired, but not willing to purchase. There were no prices showing on anything. I picked it up, realized the whole thing was new, probably unused. The owner came up. I asked her the price. She said "How much do you have on you?" I was fairly certain I had about $110. "I'll take it." I was astonished. "Ma'am, that rod and reel cost you nearly a thousand dollars new." She said "Give me $110 if you have that much, more if there's more in your pocket, no checks." So I did. What I reckoned was enough for her., and I told her accurately enough. It wasn't a mere guess, for I generally have an idea of what I am still carrying. <<<<<

I bet the man who lived there was not very happy when he discovered his brand new fishing rig was missing!!!!
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#38
your first answer made no reference to Scripture. That's what got me wondering. I brought up the passage in Peter, hoping you'd comment on it but instead you answer with how you view the bible, but that wasn't my point.

I'll try asking differently. Can you learn of God's nature apart from Scripture? If so, how will you know it is God's nature?
no you cannot. to know God and who he is you have to read about him in his word and get to know him through it while at the same time spend time with him to know him intimately however you can. The word alone is not enough to know him but without the word you cannot know him either. it's like the sun and the moon we cannot have one or the other we need both or like water and air we cannot live without both of them. Yes reading and knowing the word is important but just as important is to spend personal quality time with him to be still and know him. feelings and experiences are valid for God is an emotional being and in all throughout the bible such experiences and feelings were found in his word.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
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#39
it's actually vital for us to study scriptures, by that clearly hearing from God at least as often as we answer our stomach cry for food.
1 Timothy 4:13-16 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


There is ample doctrine to heed concerning the handling of that old man/nature, or former state of desperation. I am commanded to reckon that old man of sin is dead and buried, not to dig him up to be allowed to say anything to me.
Romans 6:9-12 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


What does "reckon" mean? I stopped at a small yard sale because I spotted a very expensive bass fishing rod with a Shimano Calais digital reel. Those are easy to spot, the reel retailing over $600, something I'd admired, but not willing to purchase. There were no prices showing on anything. I picked it up, realized the whole thing was new, probably unused. The owner came up. I asked her the price. She said "How much do you have on you?" I was fairly certain I had about $110. "I'll take it." I was astonished. "Ma'am, that rod and reel cost you nearly a thousand dollars new." She said "Give me $110 if you have that much, more if there's more in your pocket, no checks." So I did. What I reckoned was enough for her., and I told her accurately enough. It wasn't a mere guess, for I generally have an idea of what I am still carrying.

Here's more about that to study around:
Romans 6:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Ephesians 4:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;


Colossians 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Yes, we are to RECKON the old man dead (count him as if dead) Rom 6:11 which implies he pops up and tries to gain the throne as Rom 7 illustrates and Galatians 5 explains...

Galatians 5:17 (KJV) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Romans 7:13, 18 (KJV)
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

But in any case this all is a good example where we have to go to Scripture to sort out these things for confirmation.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
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#40
no you cannot. to know God and who he is you have to read about him in his word and get to know him through it while at the same time spend time with him to know him intimately however you can. The word alone is not enough to know him but without the word you cannot know him either. it's like the sun and the moon we cannot have one or the other we need both or like water and air we cannot live without both of them. Yes reading and knowing the word is important but just as important is to spend personal quality time with him to be still and know him. feelings and experiences are valid for God is an emotional being and in all throughout the bible such experiences and feelings were found in his word.
I'll go along with all that so long as what we come up with through our experiences do not contradict or add to His Word.