Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine

Quasar92 · Oct 20, 2016

Hi wolfwint,

There are two issues here that need to be addressed:

The first one pertains to who Jesus was addressing during His first advent. Mt.15:24 and 10:5-6 make it abundantly clear, He was addressing Israel EXCLUSIVELY. The Church DID NOT exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, as recorded in Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, recorded in Acts 1:9 and in 2:1-3. As such, none of it pertains to the Church The only verses alluding to activities of the Church pertain to BELIEVING Israelites, such as Mt.24:31; Lk.21:36 and in Jn.14:2-3, 28.

Who and what are the 144,000 Israelites?

According to the Bible, Jesus, Paul and John revealed, those of us who belong to His Church, will be CAUGHT UP [Raptured] to Him in the clouds of the sky, before the antichrist is revealed, as recorded in 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. Who triggers the seven year tribulation/70th Week of Daniel, God decreed Israel to go through in Dan.9:27.[In connection with the Church = Jn.14:1-4 and 28; 1 Thes.4:14-18 and 2 Thes.2:1-8]. In connection with Israel = Jer.30:7 and Dan.9:27, where the person who 'confirms a covenant/treaty/agreement with Israel is the antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in that vs, triggers the 70th and final 'Week,'/seven year tribulation/Day of the Lord. Seen also in 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7- 8].

Jesus said He has two sheep folds, Israel, whom He was addressing, and the "other one He must also bring," the Church, according to Jn.10:16. He prophecied that they will become one fold with one Shepherd [After He establishes His kingdom on earth, in Rev.20:6]. He also said many who are first will be last [Israel] and many who are last will be first [The Church] in Mt.19:30. This will be fulfilled after the first resurrection of all the tribulation martyrs/saints, in Rev.20:4, and then reign with Christ for 1,000 years, in Rev.6.

The Church will be CAUGHT UP to be with Jesus, before the tribulation begins, according to Jn .14:2-3, 28; 1 Thes.4:16-17 and 2 Thes.2:1-8] and that Israel will go through the tribulation [Dan.9:27]. When Israel finally recognizes Jesus as their Messiah, according to Zech.12:10, at His second coming, they will then come into the same sheep fold with the Church and the two will become one fold, with Jesus being the one Shepherd, when He establishes His Millennial kingdom here on earth according to Rev.20:6.

When the Church is Caught Up to be with the Lord in heaven, the antichrist is revealed and the tribulation begins, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4, 7-8; Dan.9:27 and Rev.6:2].

The overview of the tribulation, begins with the first rider of the four, on the white horse, who is the antichrist, in the first of seven seals. After the six seals, before the seventh seal that contains the seven trumpet judgements begins, in Rev.7, God will send 144,000 consisting of 12,000 Israelites from each of twelve of their tribes, that He "redeems from the earth" according to Rev.14:3. Sealing them, and they become converted believers in Jesus Christ who will take the place of the Raptured Church, to preach the Eternal Gospel in their absence, to all those left on the earth, according to Rev.7:1-8. Whom God will send here from heaven [as He will His two witnesses of Rev.11].

They were the righteous ones in OT Sheol when Jesus preached the gospel to them, according to 1 Pet.3:18-20. Then when He ascended into heaven, in Acts 1:9, He took all the righteous ones who came from OT Sheol with Him, as seen in Eph.4:7-10, fulfilling the prophecy in Ps.68:18. [During OT times, the spirits of the righteous dead went to Sheol, as did the wicked, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sin, according to Heb.10:3-4, Lk.16:19-23 and in Ps.49:14-15, until Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross, amplified by Paul in Rom.3:25-26.

The efforts of their work as evangelists is then revealed in the parenthetic [preview] view of the Great Multitude seen in heaven, recorded in Rev.7:9-17, who represents all of those who will be saved during the tribulation, and who are also the martyrs who participate in the first resurrection of Rev.20:4. They are the tribulation saints and are the non-believers who will be left behind, when the Church is raptured, and do not belong to the Church. The Church age ENDS when it is caught up to be with the Lord, in 1 Thes.4:17. The 144,000 will bring them to the Lord. They do not belong to the Church or they would be raptured with the Church before the tribulation begins.

When their ministry is finished, the 144,000 will be translated, and return to heaven, in Rev.14:1-5. When that happens, the earth will once again be without anyone to preach the Eternal Gospel. So God will commission an angel to do so in Rev.14:6-7.

Therefore, the 144,000 are all converted Israelites who take the place of the Raptured Church to preach the Gospel to all those who will be left behind when Jesus comes to take His Church with Him to our Father in heaven, as previously address above, documented in Jn.14:2-4 and 28; 1Thes.4:13-17 and 2 Thes.2:1-8.

Quasar92

CS1 · Oct 20, 2016

popeye said:

The contextual meaning of the doctrine must be in the light of other scriptures that is why those who hold to pretrib, post trib and no Trib Raptures all agree on the soon return of the Lord. The doctrines of the "Rapture" are not essential for salvation. The Coming of the Lord is.

GaryA · Oct 20, 2016

PlainWord said:

No -- it says this:

Daniel 9:

[SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

valiant · Oct 20, 2016

GaryA said:

correct. that proves that it is God Who confirms 'the covenant' with his people. It happened around 27 AD

masmpg · Oct 20, 2016

CS1 said:

I would not bother commenting on this issue if it was not a salvation issue.

Those who are waiting until the "pre-trib" rapture to happen before they accept Jesus will be lost when Jesus comes, because the bible teaches only ONE second coming not two.

All the bible verses used to "prove" the pre-trib" rapture are only partial verses and out of context verses, and I will show this as I answer these comments with the real context of the verses.

masmpg · Oct 20, 2016

GaryA said:

No -- it says this:

Daniel 9:

[SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Lets read the whole context of Daniel 9. Just using a part of one verse out of context does not support any doctrine.

Here is the whole context: Da:9:22-27: "And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

First off here is a good short proof video about the "day for a year" principle that applies to all bible prophecy.
Why doesn't the day for a year principle apply to every prophecy in the Bible? | Bible Question Archive | Amazing Facts

Second, this prophecy of Daniel 9 is very obviously referring to Jesus baptism, death and resurrection. Most denominations agree with that fact, but what most denominations do not agree with, or they supply a double meaning to the last seven years of the prophecy by placing them into the future when they in fact end at the stoning of Stephen. The Jews were given seventy weeks "to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." But they did not. In fact when the Jews crucified Jesus they cursed themselves with the statement "His blood be on us and on our children." By this statement we know that they were complicit in the murder of their Saviour.

We can start with the statement by Gabriel that states "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks" this is 69 of the seventy week prophecy.
When was the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem given? 457 BC is when Artaxerxes gave Israel permission and means to restore Jerusalem for, that is the first seven weeks of this prophecy. It took 49 years to rebuild the city and the wall. The [FONT=&quot]49 years would take us to 408 BC. Is this date significant? Yes it is!! It is the date that the restoration of the city finished! Then we have the threescore and two weeks which equates to 434 years. Now if we take 434 from 408 BC (when rebuilding the city had finished), we come to 27 AD, Jesus' baptism!

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]So after the baptism of Jesus (after the threescore and two weeks, which ended in 27 AD), it says that Messiah shall be 'cut off'. Now those words, cut off means to be killed. This can only point to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Notice in the verse it also says that it was NOT FOR HIMSELF that he was cut off (killed). As we know, Jesus died for us to bare our sins. Now if you take this last week of this 70 week prophecy and put it in the future, then you are denying that it is pointing to the cross of our Saviour, which it clearly is. So this last week of the 70 weeks prophecy starts at the baptism of Jesus, and in the middle of the week, He would cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease. At the cross, Jesus put an end to the priestly service, which included the sacrifice and offerings of animals for sins. The middle of 7 years is 3.5 years. If you add 3.5 years to 27 AD, you come to 31 AD. This is the exact year of Jesus sacrifice on the cross of Calvary. The great veil of the temple ripped in two, which symbolized the end of the sacrifice and oblation (offerings). In no way is this a future antichrist which the Jesuit false teaching proclaims.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]There is 3.5 years left of this 70 weeks of Daniel. After they killed Jesus on the cross, the Jews were given another 3.5 years to end their sin and accept Jesus as their Saviour. What an awesome God we have, who is full of grace! Now it said in the 70 week prophecy that the covenant would be confirmed for 1 week, which is 7 'prophetic' days, which equates to 7 literal years. Christ confirmed the covenant for the first 3.5 years, and after His death and resurrection, it was now the job of the apostles to continue preaching the gospel message to the Jews for the last 3.5 years.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:46-47 ...'And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.'[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So beginning at Jerusalem, the apostles were to confirm the new covenant. So when did the Jews finally reject the gospel message of Christ and when did this 3.5 years come to an end? ... Acts 7:57-58 ...'Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, and cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.'[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Stephen had just given a speech about the gospel to the Jewish leaders, and notice above what they did, 'they stopped their ears' and stoned Stephen. So they finally rejected the new covenant message and thus rejected Jesus and this fulfilled the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel and that special status of being God's chosen nation was taken from them. By the way, the stoning of Stephen happened exactly 3.5 years after the cross, thus perfectly fulfilling the time prophecy of 70 weeks (490 years). Paul himself, after becoming a follower of Christ, confirmed this ... Acts 13:46 ...'Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.'

The seventy week prophecy is a perfect prophecy about Jesus baptism, death and resurrection, and the Jews rejecting the gospel by stoning Stephen. All the dates ad up to be exact. Daniel 9 prophecies perfectly these things.

The verses that are used to prove the pre-trib rapture are way out of context. I will show a few more in other posts.

Believe me when I say that I do not do this for my benefit. The truth is never popular. The majority, according to Jesus will be lost and the minority will be saved, so instead of following the out of context teachings of popular false teachers, break down God's holy word the KJV bible, praying over every verse and not moving on until the Holy Spirit has revealed that verse to you according to John 14:26 and 16:13 so you are certain to be on the right path.[/FONT]

CS1 · Oct 20, 2016

masmpg said:

I do not agree with that statement and that is not the understanding of the majority of Pre-trib believers. it is well known as it is stated in 1thess 4:13-18 The Dead in Christ rise first there is no guarantee we will be alive when the Lord comes. Those who say they are waiting for the rapture who hold that doctrine are saved lol. Paul was speaking to those who were sleep in the Lord ( dead) saved but dead .

bluto · Oct 20, 2016

What I said went completely over our head. Here is the definition of wrath. "Noun, 1-strong, stern, or firerce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire. 2- vengeance or PUNISHMENT AS THE CONSEQUENCE OF ANGER."

So you tell me if God the Father poured out His wrath was angry and punished His Son while on that cross? In fact Isaiah 53:10 says, "But the Lord WAS PLEASED to crush Him, ptting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering etc." Tell me jimbone, why was the Lord pleased to crush Him? Jesus did not endure the wrath of God but rather endured the ordeal of the cross.

You mentioned "because He fulfilled the law for us." Exactly right, Galatians 3:13, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, (how?) having become a curse for us---for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree." Like I said, wrath is fierce anger or punishment as a consequence of that anger. God the Father was not angry with Jesus Christ nor did He punish Jesus Christ in order for His wrath to be satisfied, that is not how God works. The punishment is always directed towards those who do not know Christ.

You also said, "I also agree with you about "Jesus, WHO DELIVERS US FROM THE WRATH TO COME", the way He did that was by taking it on Himself. A holy God can't just "let it slide", the price has to be paid. All glory to Him it was paid." No, Jesus Christ did not take on God's wrath but instead according to 1 Peter 2:24, "and He Himself "BORE" our sins in His body on ther cross, (why?) that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; FOR BY HIS WOUNDS YOU WERE HEALED." This is talking about bening healed spiritually.

Now, I don't need you lecturing me like I'm a little kid that does not know Bible 101 and what Jesus Christ did for us on that cross. And I have known Him personally for over 50 year now and do not take this isssue even remotely lightly. I will also still stick to what I said initially, "I have heard that line for over 50 years now that Jesus took on the wrath of God for us? That is so "old and dry school" thinking that it upsets me to no end. Since we are not destined for the wrath of God why would His Son be?"

The other thing I consider old school thinking is the pre-trib rapture. I too believed this view and the view about God pouring out His wrath on His Son. But after further study over many many years I have changed my position. Oh and one more thing I changed my view on which you mentioned is that God the Father forsook His Son on that cross. This to I use to believe but I later found out that God did not forsake His Son. And yes, I know what Matthew 27:46 says, but was Jesus actually forsaken by the Father?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

popeye · Oct 20, 2016

BlazyJon said:

Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine Debunked
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 20:4-6

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

So if the dead in Christ rise FIRST and... "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection", and we who are alive and remain do not precede them. Then I submit to you that pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is FALSE.

Yes the Lord will descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, so consider:

1 Corinthians 15:52

in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

How many trumpets are there in Revelation? Seven right? So I am pretty sure the Church will be present during the first Six. How do I know the Seventh Trumpet is the Last Trumpet? I'll show you.

Revelation 11:15

Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

So it is obvious that if they "BECOME the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ", then you can tell it is the last trumpet as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52. And if the LAST trumpet then six need to blow first. But the day and hour the Lord returns is only known by the Father, so the angel could sound it at any time. And if he does then we who are alive and remain will meet the Lord in the air AS He is coming to Earth. And if we simply meet Him in the air as He is coming to Earth, to stand on the Mount of Olives, won't we.............."Always be with the Lord"?--1 Thessalonians 4:17

Consider this:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

In 1 Thessalonians it spoke of our gathering together to Him and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
In 2 Thessalonians it speaks of our gathering together to Him and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul was writing these letters to the same people.

Consider this:

Luke 17:34-37

I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[f]

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

Revelation 19:21

And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Left where? Left with the birds...or...eagles. And if you check the context of Revelation 19:21 you will see that the Lord fully returned; it is quite obvious.

Romans 8:17

and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

The word suffer is not a typo.

Mecca On Seven Hills or Mountains? Is King Faisal the Beast?

Your whole deal gets washed out in rev 14.

Look it up.

There are at least 2 gatherings..... DURING THE GT.

That means ,according to all your conjecture,the dead DO NOT RISE FIRST.

You do not have one verse depicting a post trib rapture....all conjecture.

CS1 · Oct 20, 2016

well at any rate very interesting comments. enjoy everyone

bluto · Oct 20, 2016

bluto said:

Oh please, do you know I have heard that line for over 50 years now that Jesus took on the wrath of God for us? That is so "old and dry school" thinking that it upsets me to no end. Since we are not destined for the wrath of God why would His Son be? 2 Corinthains 5:19, "namely that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself." Jesus Christ dying on that cross was an act of love for our benefit so we could be reconciled back to God. There was no wrath put on His Son, period.

This reminds of the wof teachers who said the atonement was not finished on the cross, it was finished in hell. This is where Jesus Christ was tortured by Satan and his minions and Jesus was born again in hell until God the Father could not take it anymore and He bellowed out "Enough!"

Now, getting back to this wrath thing at 1 Thessalonians 5:9. "For God has not destined us for wrather, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." That word, "salvation" can also be translated "deliverance." 1 Thessalonians 1:10, "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, WHO DELIVERS US FROM THE WRATH TO COME." I personally believe at least from 1 Thess 5:9 it can pertain to salvation proper or in the sense of when is the rapture? In other words, there is wrath on those who reject Jesus Christ. Else why at vs10 Paul says, "who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live to together with Him." I mean being together with Him sounds kind of final to me?

Then Paul says at 1 Thess 5:11 to encourage one another, and build up one another, just as you also are doing." Now, look at John 11:21-24, "Martha therefore said to Jesus, "Lord, if Youhad been here my brother would not have died. VS22, EVen now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." Vs23, Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again." Vs24, "Martha said to Him, I know that he will rise again IN THE RESURRECTION ON THE LAST DAY." When is the "last day" ahwatukee?

Lastly, and speaking of wrath? 1 Corinthians 1:7,8, "so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, vs9, WHO SHALL CONFIRM YOU TO THE END, blamelss in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." What end ahwatukee? See how many little gems can be found in the Bible!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Bumped for popeye! And thank you popeye for your post about the Trinity. Hopefully you will come to your senses on this pre-trib error you posit. Btw, tell me again where I can insert the pre-trib rapture anywhere at Matthew 24?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

popeye · Oct 20, 2016

bluto said:

The " one taken" fits the pretrib rapture..

Postrib rapture model needs a "wicked taken first" ,which is a sky grab from nowhere. Custom fitment for a doctrine.

The only other possibility is a post millennial "one taken",but definitely not postrib.

popeye · Oct 20, 2016

bluto said:

BTW,It was my pleasure standing with you on the trinity.

....and you did seem to get most of the ten virgin parable correct.

Bladerunner · Oct 20, 2016

masmpg said:

masmpg, first of all, those who wait for Jesus to appear will be too late anyway. I see that you have broken down Daniel 9 in your post #186. Let me take you through Daniel 9 so you can compare the difference in one reading the Bible Literally vs allegorically.

Bladerunner · Oct 20, 2016

masmpg said:

GaryA said:

what you need to do start reading Daniel 9:1 - 27. Look to the time period. Look to the Judgement of the Jewish people. What was Daniel doing for the most part of Chapter 9? Who was he talking to in 21?

Now whether you subscribe to the pre-trib rapture is incidental to your faith in Jesus Christ to have died, buried and resurrected according to scripture. Do you believe that or is it allegorical as well is the real question.

If you do not, then you got bigger problems that worrying about the rapture.

If you believe in Jesus Christ, then your soul is destined to reside in Heaven.

Now if I am wrong (and I am not) and there is no Rapture, then I still believe in Jesus Christ and my soul is his in heaven.

But if I am right (and I Am) and there is a rapture, I will be "caught up" in the clouds with millions of other Christians who faith see no bounds.

Ask yourself,,,where you are at before it is too late. Like you said when the rapture does come and those around are not ready, then they will have to live through the Tribulations of the seventieth week or die with your head cut off as a martyred saint.

It really is your choice! There are many people in this forum that can help you, Choose well my friend.

PlainWord · Oct 21, 2016

I love all these people who go to Dan 9 to try and find the Abomination of Desolation when it isn't there. Instead it is found in Dan 11-12 but they NEVER go there. Why? I suspect the reason is that the Great Tribulation of Israel ends, then the wrath is found in Dan 12:1 followed by the resurrection. Since this sequence doesn't fit the Pre-Trib narrative, they completely ignore it.

popeye · Oct 21, 2016

bluto said:

Same old tired clichés trying to erase our verses.

You don't have a clue bluto.

Where do postribs come off erasing verses?

We post verses,and you do not even consider them.

All you are showing is error. That is error my friend.

When you base your entire doctrine on one or two words,you sure better hope you got a sealed deal.

NOW WATCH THIS;

JESUS SPEAKS AND IT IS A TRUMPET.
A TRUMPET SOUND COMES OUT.

Soooooo,according to your one word doctrine,WE MUST CONCLUDE,that the entire deal is off.

No rapture,and no second coming.

According to your one word doctrine,Jesus returned and the rapture happened on the isle of Patmos.

"....and I heard a voice behind me as the sound of a trumpet..."

Your deal is busted.

popeye · Oct 21, 2016

CS1 said:

Pretrib rapture adherents stand alone in the purposes of God,the prism of heaven,and the bride/groom dimension.

That is huge.

We basically own the last days doctrine.

Most every other position is trib/wrath/ earth/man centered.

They try to prove something very bad is about to happen.

We champion that something very good is about to happen as depicted in mat 25.

The bad that happens afterward is a decision of those looking for the wrong guy. (the one on the white horse with a bow).

They are "bad" centered.

And to top it off they actually " comfort one another with those words"

popeye · Oct 21, 2016

masmpg said:

No sir.

We actually have harmony in our doctrine.

Postrib rapture REQUIRES the spin on verses.

That is why they are one word centered.

Trump
Trumpet
Last day
7th trumpet
1830
McDonald
Darby
Lahaye
1st resurrection

On and on,and then insert the correct,wink,wink,"context"

Really easily debunked.

popeye · Oct 21, 2016

You postrib rapture guys never read rev 14.

Go to a postrib site and look it up.

What do you see? They can not go there.

That pesky verse. ( like all the others that get ignored)

Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine

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