-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
No they don't...
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Opinion does not trump scriptural truth.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Opinion does not trump scriptural truth.
Lol, this is what it means biblically. What is the old man? I'm not dead, but the bible says that when a man dies, all he loved and hated GOES WITH HIM. So if I crucified the flesh then what I took as good and bad in this world went to the grave. I KNOW THEM NO MORE. So now the life that is obviously in me, is refreshed and I walk in newness of life. We all look alike in the grave! Old, young, black, white, rich, poor, free, bond, fat, skinny, gay, straight, Christian, Muslim, man, beast, Christ and SINNERS!
The only thing that can pull you up out of that, Is the Almighty!
The only thing that can pull you up out of that, Is the Almighty!
But those in Christ are dead to the law of Moses.
The whole point in GOD putting us to death to the law is to bring us out from under condemnation of the letter of the law, so that we can now serve GOD in faith and love, which is the spirit of, and purpose for, the law.
So then, my brothers, you also were brought to death with respect to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. Romans 7:4
But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to that by which we were bound, so that we may serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter of the law. Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to that by which we were bound, so that we may serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter of the law. Romans 7:6
The whole point in GOD putting us to death to the law is to bring us out from under condemnation of the letter of the law, so that we can now serve GOD in faith and love, which is the spirit of, and purpose for, the law.
CONTEXT - people continue to take this out of context, and make it say the opposite of what it says.
this isn't about antinomianism.
the question was what must i do to inherit eternal life.
...
Luke 18
The Rich Ruler
18And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. 20You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” 21And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” 22When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 23But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich. 24Jesus, seeing that he had become sad, said, “How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! 25For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 26Those who heard it said, “Then who can be saved?” 27But he said, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.” 28And Peter said, “See, we have left our homes and followed you.” 29And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothersb or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.”
......
And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
did the ruler know who Jesus was?
"Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone."
did the ruler understand how one inherits eternal life - did he believe it was by the works of the Law?
“Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
"Jesus said to him.....You know the commandments"
......
Acts 2:37
37Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 10
2For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Galatians 2:16
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified
this isn't about antinomianism.
the question was what must i do to inherit eternal life.
...
Luke 18
The Rich Ruler
18And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. 20You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” 21And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” 22When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 23But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich. 24Jesus, seeing that he had become sad, said, “How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! 25For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 26Those who heard it said, “Then who can be saved?” 27But he said, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.” 28And Peter said, “See, we have left our homes and followed you.” 29And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothersb or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.”
......
And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
did the ruler know who Jesus was?
"Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone."
did the ruler understand how one inherits eternal life - did he believe it was by the works of the Law?
“Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
"Jesus said to him.....You know the commandments"
......
Acts 2:37
37Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 10
2For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Galatians 2:16
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified
Last edited:
you know?
like how many times does this need to be said?
once? twice?
is there any person born from above who does not know this?
and does a truly born from above person want to go psycho with their new liberty?
there were (and are i suppose) true antinomians who despise morality and just toss the Lord's name out there.
are they christians? anyone on this forum advocating the gnostic/dualist idea that the more evil one commits in the flesh the more grace will abound?
seriously....this here:
is just old.
like how many times does this need to be said?
once? twice?
is there any person born from above who does not know this?
and does a truly born from above person want to go psycho with their new liberty?
there were (and are i suppose) true antinomians who despise morality and just toss the Lord's name out there.
are they christians? anyone on this forum advocating the gnostic/dualist idea that the more evil one commits in the flesh the more grace will abound?
seriously....this here:
is just old.
D
Context is exactly why I posted it....I was responding to Josh's post, because he responded to this scripture
"Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
with this
"did he say the 10 commandments... you just trying to twist to scriptures to what you want it to say "
I don't see how the original guy was twisting anything around or taking it out of context. That's why I asked
"Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
with this
"did he say the 10 commandments... you just trying to twist to scriptures to what you want it to say "
I don't see how the original guy was twisting anything around or taking it out of context. That's why I asked
And what does Paul say about that?
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Ok, so is there Law?
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
And why did death reign?
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So if there is no Law today, there is no sin and there is no wages of sin and ALL would have eternal life at that point. You really believe that?
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Ok, so is there Law?
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
And why did death reign?
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So if there is no Law today, there is no sin and there is no wages of sin and ALL would have eternal life at that point. You really believe that?
Let's see what you believe about not having to keep the Law for salvation...
Do you have to keep the sixth Commandment to be saved?
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
So, a murderer does not have eternal life. Any other Commandments pertinent?
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
So, let's see here, those who DO the Commandments are given eternal life. How about those who do not?
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Do you have to keep the sixth Commandment to be saved?
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
So, a murderer does not have eternal life. Any other Commandments pertinent?
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
So, let's see here, those who DO the Commandments are given eternal life. How about those who do not?
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Because there is but one covenant. That is love. When we transgress that, we are cursed and therefore still receive the sentence of death.
Again people, what do you expect will happen when we as a whole have enough for all, and still people die from lack? We are lawless and disobedient, and I pray CONTINUALLY that we all repent!
J
did he say to keep the sabbath? no.. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
[h=3]Romans 13:8-10[/h]
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
[h=3]Romans 13:8-10[/h]
Does He say not to commit bestiality? Must be OK then.
In fact He does say to keep the Sabbath...
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
G4520
σαββατισμός
sabbatismos
Thayer Definition:
1) a keeping sabbath
2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G4521
Citing in TDNT: 7:34, 989
Even the NIV admits to this...
Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; - NIV
From Fred Coulter's website...
When we understand and absorb the full meaning of the Greek text of Hebrew 4:9, there is no question that the New Testament upholds the authority of
the Fourth Commandment. The Greek word used here for "rest" is sabbatismos which means "Sabbath rest, Sabbath observance" (Arndt and Gingrich, A
Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).
This definition is confirmed by other historical works: "The words `sabbath rest' is from the [Greek] noun sabbatismos, [and is] a unique word in
the NT. This term appears also in Plutarch (Superset. 3 [Moralia 166a]) for sabbath observance, and in four post-canonical Christian writings which are not
dependent on Heb. 4:9" (The Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 5, p. 856). This is historical evidence that true Christians were observing the seventh-day Sabbath
long after Emperor Constantine declared that Sunday was the "Christian" day of worship in 325 AD.
While sabbatismos is a noun, the verb form of the word is sabbatizo which means, "to keep the Sabbath" (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).
This definition of sabbatizo is confirmed by its use in the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament dating from third century BC. Jews used
the Septuagint in synagogues throughout the Roman Empire; Greek-speaking Jewish and Gentile coverts to Christianity used this translation throughout the early
New Testament period. This is why the apostle Paul quotes extensively from the Septuagint in his epistle to the Hebrews, which went to all the true churches of
God-Jew and Gentile.
When Paul used sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9, he did so knowing that its meaning was well known to the Greekspeaking believers of that day. After all,
its verb form (sabbatizo) is widely employed in the Septuagint-which, as a translation, was as familiar to the Greek-speaking Jews and Gentiles of the
early Church as the King James Bible is to Christians today.
For example, the use of the verb sabbatizo in Leviticus 23:32 in the Septuagint substantiates its meaning. The Greek English Lexicon of the Septuagint defines sabbatizo as "to keep [a] sabbath, to rest" (Lust, Eynikel, Hauspie). The English translation of this verse in the Septuagint reads: "It
[the Day of Atonement] shall be a holy sabbath [literally, `a Sabbath of Sabbaths'] to you; and ye shall humble your souls, from the ninth day of the
month: from evening to evening shall ye keep your sabbaths" (The Septuagint With the Apocrypha, Brenton).
In fact He does say to keep the Sabbath...
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
G4520
σαββατισμός
sabbatismos
Thayer Definition:
1) a keeping sabbath
2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G4521
Citing in TDNT: 7:34, 989
Even the NIV admits to this...
Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; - NIV
From Fred Coulter's website...
When we understand and absorb the full meaning of the Greek text of Hebrew 4:9, there is no question that the New Testament upholds the authority of
the Fourth Commandment. The Greek word used here for "rest" is sabbatismos which means "Sabbath rest, Sabbath observance" (Arndt and Gingrich, A
Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).
This definition is confirmed by other historical works: "The words `sabbath rest' is from the [Greek] noun sabbatismos, [and is] a unique word in
the NT. This term appears also in Plutarch (Superset. 3 [Moralia 166a]) for sabbath observance, and in four post-canonical Christian writings which are not
dependent on Heb. 4:9" (The Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 5, p. 856). This is historical evidence that true Christians were observing the seventh-day Sabbath
long after Emperor Constantine declared that Sunday was the "Christian" day of worship in 325 AD.
While sabbatismos is a noun, the verb form of the word is sabbatizo which means, "to keep the Sabbath" (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).
This definition of sabbatizo is confirmed by its use in the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament dating from third century BC. Jews used
the Septuagint in synagogues throughout the Roman Empire; Greek-speaking Jewish and Gentile coverts to Christianity used this translation throughout the early
New Testament period. This is why the apostle Paul quotes extensively from the Septuagint in his epistle to the Hebrews, which went to all the true churches of
God-Jew and Gentile.
When Paul used sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9, he did so knowing that its meaning was well known to the Greekspeaking believers of that day. After all,
its verb form (sabbatizo) is widely employed in the Septuagint-which, as a translation, was as familiar to the Greek-speaking Jews and Gentiles of the
early Church as the King James Bible is to Christians today.
For example, the use of the verb sabbatizo in Leviticus 23:32 in the Septuagint substantiates its meaning. The Greek English Lexicon of the Septuagint defines sabbatizo as "to keep [a] sabbath, to rest" (Lust, Eynikel, Hauspie). The English translation of this verse in the Septuagint reads: "It
[the Day of Atonement] shall be a holy sabbath [literally, `a Sabbath of Sabbaths'] to you; and ye shall humble your souls, from the ninth day of the
month: from evening to evening shall ye keep your sabbaths" (The Septuagint With the Apocrypha, Brenton).
J
The fact is... none of you can prove that the 10 commandments was for the gentiles in the first place... i've shown you countless scriptures that proves it was for the jews and not us.. and that covenant was finished and god made a new one with israel, i want to you one of you show me where in the bible it says we must keep it.. i don't get it.. we're showing written scriptures... saying that it wasn't meant for us in the first place and all we have to do is believe in god and be baptised with the holy spirit and love your neighbor, that's all that is required so why try to do extra?...therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
J
also a major problem is people just read and don't understand what is going on not everything is for us have jews and gentiles god is now dealing with the gentile age, and the fact that the bible said that the jews are blinded and people still trying to be jews...if we look at what the jews do today they keep the sabbath every saturday and set up a table waiting for jesus to come ( for the first time) because they didn't recognise him or couldn't because they were blinded and the new covenant that god made with them made them that way
D
All I was asking is why you thought the guy was twisting anything around, because when Jesus says "Commandments" in the example I used, he's obviously referring to the ten commandments.....I didn't think anything was amiss in what the original guy posted.
As for the rest of your post, I agree with you totally brother.
Also, I don't agree with people trying to tell others "You have to keep the Sabbath or your going to hell" or "You have to keep the Sabbath to be saved" so I think we agree there........
The next biggest thing I really disagree with in threads like these.....is that it's a HORRIBLE idea to go around teaching people to break commandments or saying it's ok to break them.....even though we are not under the law in the sense that some people around here that are pro-Sabbath are suggesting.....teachers get the stricter judgement and actively instructing people that it's ok to break a commandment or accusing everybody that chooses to keep it of salvation by works is a horrible position to be taking.
Matthew 5:19
"[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
As for the rest of your post, I agree with you totally brother.
Also, I don't agree with people trying to tell others "You have to keep the Sabbath or your going to hell" or "You have to keep the Sabbath to be saved" so I think we agree there........
The next biggest thing I really disagree with in threads like these.....is that it's a HORRIBLE idea to go around teaching people to break commandments or saying it's ok to break them.....even though we are not under the law in the sense that some people around here that are pro-Sabbath are suggesting.....teachers get the stricter judgement and actively instructing people that it's ok to break a commandment or accusing everybody that chooses to keep it of salvation by works is a horrible position to be taking.
Matthew 5:19
"[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
D
I never said that people shouldn't keep the law, on the contrary....I encourage anybody reading to keep all 10 commandments to the best of their ability but if they choose not to, I judge them not.
God also happens to delight in showing mercy and compassion.....If it wasn't for that, we would all certainly be doomed. Sure the verse you posted says "all liars", but is there anyone here among us that is willing to claim they've never lied?
That's why it's faith in God and Jesus is what saves, not our deeds according to the letter of the law. Does this mean we should lie with reckless abandon and continue to do anything we please and/or teach people to break commandments? God forbid, but if we do happen to sin.......we have a mediator. God judges righteously AND he abundantly pardons, he delights in mercy.
Nobody will be justified by how well they kept the law, because we've all broken the law at some point in our lives....we've all sinned.
God also happens to delight in showing mercy and compassion.....If it wasn't for that, we would all certainly be doomed. Sure the verse you posted says "all liars", but is there anyone here among us that is willing to claim they've never lied?
That's why it's faith in God and Jesus is what saves, not our deeds according to the letter of the law. Does this mean we should lie with reckless abandon and continue to do anything we please and/or teach people to break commandments? God forbid, but if we do happen to sin.......we have a mediator. God judges righteously AND he abundantly pardons, he delights in mercy.
Nobody will be justified by how well they kept the law, because we've all broken the law at some point in our lives....we've all sinned.