Seducing spirits and doctrines of devils

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Nov 22, 2015
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But that's the thing HRFTD, I don't live in sin and I don't have a guilty conscience and I don't follow a false Jesus. I know the love of God in Christ and it is strong, solid and lovely. I just shared with a sister here., "there is no shadow of turning with thee" James 1:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Every good gift and every perfect ([SUP][a][/SUP]free, large, full) gift is from above; it comes down from the Father of all [that gives] light, in [the shining of] Whom there can be no variation [rising or setting] or shadow cast by His turning [as in an eclipse].

His love can be counted on in a sick and dying world of confusion and trouble. In Him all is well. It does not change with the times or seasons of a persons life. His love only becomes more and bigger in our estimation as we see and magnify Christ. His love endures all things. And He teaches us how to love that way. No shadow of turning from God on us from His turning from us because He promises never to turn from us or leave us. "Thou changest not Thy compassions they fail not...Great is Thy faithfulness., Lord unto me......

And to answer ISIT post#354 God no longer curses us.,we are IN His Son., so there is no need to warn us of curses so He does not do that. (you need to find out who is cursed) No more curses come down on those who are in Christ. Jesus took every curse meant for everyone born in Adam who have been reborn in Christ. There is no curse or fear of a curse for us. For you to preach and teach it is unbiblical.

You miss the great and awesome message and you can't post it. But that is the message and truth we have in Christ. I'm not sure what you guys are edified by if you don't know the constant and abiding love of God in Christ. Is it your religion? Is it your satisfaction in your own ability to believe you have met the requirements of a Holy Righteous God?

So then instead you speak to everyone constantly of and having a certain expectation of judgment., for you have "arrived" on your own merit to the challenge you believe is put before you by God?.,so is that the reason you are not daily afraid and scared stiff?? You have confidence in yourself that much?

Jesus has taken away all believers judgments and curses so there is no fear of them anymore. We have His love and grace. No fear whatsoever. Perfect love (the kind that God gives) casts OUT fear. The love of God constrains and grows us. It does not bring down fear and doubt of our standing in Christ because we know that if one died for and rose again on our behalf, it is finished. Amen!!!! (just typed myself happy yet again after posting on this thread of doom and gloom)

I pray those who come here will be encouraged in Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross. And if they accept Him, they too can be confident and walk in newness of life in Christ not only for when they get to heaven but for today while they are here walking on earth with Him as their Good Shepherd who feeds His flock and leads them beside the still waters. Psalm 23 AMEN!!!

Amen!....well said....that is the essence of what is being seen....what "spirit" is behind posts. We need to be lifting up what Jesus has already done for us. It's called the gospel. There are warnings for those unbelievers and for those that walk in unbelief in what Christ has already accomplished for us. It's a terrible life without the Lord's life in us being expressed. He is our life.

The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of grace not the Spirit of guilt and condemnation. I say we actually preach the real gospel so that people can be free to love their Lord in the manner He loves us.

Your post shows the difference and what we need to be focusing on. I can't like this enough..,,..and...looks like I can't rep you now...Thank you ladylynn for continually lifting up the beauty of our Lord and encouraging us to see Him for as He really is.

"You must spread some Reputation around "
 
Sep 4, 2012
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So then instead you speak to everyone constantly of and having a certain expectation of judgment., for you have "arrived" on your own merit to the challenge you believe is put before you by God?.,so is that the reason you are not daily afraid and scared stiff?? You have confidence in yourself that much?
I usually don't reply to you because your posts are annoyingly long, the font is horrendous, and you simply rehash hyper grace talking points (which means I typically don't even read them). In this case I'm making an exception because I've seen how the false-grace tag team works: state some falsehoods or misrepresentations, then everyone else piles on hoping to build the momentum. So I'll just nip it in the bud.

You said: "...you speak to everyone constantly of and having a certain expectation of judgment". This is an outright falsehood. This reflects the filter in your mind that takes what I say and turns it into the narrative that you have been indoctrinated with. I witness that obedience is essential to our faith. But you have taken that and turned it into something altogether different in order to cast aspersion on me. You may not even be conscious of what you are doing because of the us/them mentality that is baked into the doctrine that you follow.

You said: "you have "arrived" on your own merit to the challenge you believe is put before you by God?.,so is that the reason you are not daily afraid and scared stiff?? You have confidence in yourself that much?" Again this reflects your indoctrination and projection. You won't be able to find in my words what you said here.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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HeRoseFromTheDead;2642804 (snip) [SIZE=2 said:


You said: "you have "arrived" on your own merit to the challenge you believe is put before you by God?.,so is that the reason you are not daily afraid and scared stiff?? You have confidence in yourself that much?" Again this reflects your indoctrination and projection. You won't be able to find in my words what you said here.



It's obvious she was talking to ISIT and not you. Sometimes it really does help to read what is posted. I know it helps me when I do.

Here is her post again if you do read it to see what was said to who.

And to answer ISIT post#354 God no longer curses us.,we are IN His Son., so there is no need to warn us of curses so He does not do that. (you need to find out who is cursed) No more curses come down on those who are in Christ. Jesus took every curse meant for everyone born in Adam who have been reborn in Christ. There is no curse or fear of a curse for us. For you to preach and teach it is unbiblical.

You miss the great and awesome message and you can't post it. But that is the message and truth we have in Christ. I'm not sure what you guys are edified by if you don't know the constant and abiding love of God in Christ. Is it your religion? Is it your satisfaction in your own ability to believe you have met the requirements of a Holy Righteous God?

So then instead you speak to everyone constantly of and having a certain expectation of judgment., for you have "arrived" on your own merit to the challenge you believe is put before you by God?.,so is that the reason you are not daily afraid and scared stiff?? You have confidence in yourself that much?

Jesus has taken away all believers judgments and curses so there is no fear of them anymore. We have His love and grace. No fear whatsoever. Perfect love (the kind that God gives) casts OUT fear. The love of God constrains and grows us. It does not bring down fear and doubt of our standing in Christ because we know that if one died for and rose again on our behalf, it is finished. Amen!!!! (just typed myself happy yet again after posting on this thread of doom and gloom)

I pray those who come here will be encouraged in Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross. And if they accept Him, they too can be confident and walk in newness of life in Christ not only for when they get to heaven but for today while they are here walking on earth with Him as their Good Shepherd who feeds His flock and leads them beside the still waters. Psalm 23 AMEN!!!
[/SIZE]
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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It's obvious she was talking to ISIT and not you. Sometimes it really does help to read what is posted. I know it helps me when I do.

Here is her post again if you do read it to see what was said to who.

And to answer ISIT post#354 God no longer curses us.,we are IN His Son., so there is no need to warn us of curses so He does not do that. (you need to find out who is cursed) No more curses come down on those who are in Christ. Jesus took every curse meant for everyone born in Adam who have been reborn in Christ. There is no curse or fear of a curse for us. For you to preach and teach it is unbiblical.

You miss the great and awesome message and you can't post it. But that is the message and truth we have in Christ. I'm not sure what you guys are edified by if you don't know the constant and abiding love of God in Christ. Is it your religion? Is it your satisfaction in your own ability to believe you have met the requirements of a Holy Righteous God?

So then instead you speak to everyone constantly of and having a certain expectation of judgment., for you have "arrived" on your own merit to the challenge you believe is put before you by God?.,so is that the reason you are not daily afraid and scared stiff?? You have confidence in yourself that much?

Jesus has taken away all believers judgments and curses so there is no fear of them anymore. We have His love and grace. No fear whatsoever. Perfect love (the kind that God gives) casts OUT fear. The love of God constrains and grows us. It does not bring down fear and doubt of our standing in Christ because we know that if one died for and rose again on our behalf, it is finished. Amen!!!! (just typed myself happy yet again after posting on this thread of doom and gloom)

I pray those who come here will be encouraged in Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross. And if they accept Him, they too can be confident and walk in newness of life in Christ not only for when they get to heaven but for today while they are here walking on earth with Him as their Good Shepherd who feeds His flock and leads them beside the still waters. Psalm 23 AMEN!!!
[/SIZE]
maybe, hopefully one day that light will go on and some people would understand that doing good works and being obedient is a REUSLT of grace and faith, not the cause.

it is getting really tiring explaining the same thing to the same people everyday, and they shut their eyes to it.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I usually don't reply to you because your posts are annoyingly long, the font is horrendous, and you simply rehash hyper grace talking points (which means I typically don't even read them). In this case I'm making an exception because I've seen how the false-grace tag team works: state some falsehoods or misrepresentations, then everyone else piles on hoping to build the momentum. So I'll just nip it in the bud.

You said: "...you speak to everyone constantly of and having a certain expectation of judgment". This is an outright falsehood. This reflects the filter in your mind that takes what I say and turns it into the narrative that you have been indoctrinated with. I witness that obedience is essential to our faith. But you have taken that and turned it into something altogether different in order to cast aspersion on me. You may not even be conscious of what you are doing because of the us/them mentality that is baked into the doctrine that you follow.

You said: "you have "arrived" on your own merit to the challenge you believe is put before you by God?.,so is that the reason you are not daily afraid and scared stiff?? You have confidence in yourself that much?" Again this reflects your indoctrination and projection. You won't be able to find in my words what you said here.
Here is her message of love, hope and the goodness of God towards us. This was her part of the post directed to you. It's good and it reveals the true nature of our wonderful, good, loving Father and it will bless us all.

Quote:


But that's the thing HRFTD, I don't live in sin and I don't have a guilty conscience and I don't follow a false Jesus. I know the love of God in Christ and it is strong, solid and lovely. I just shared with a sister here., "there is no shadow of turning with thee" James 1:17

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Every good gift and every perfect ([SUP][a][/SUP]free, large, full) gift is from above; it comes down from the Father of all [that gives] light, in [the shining of] Whom there can be no variation [rising or setting] or shadow cast by His turning [as in an eclipse].

His love can be counted on in a sick and dying world of confusion and trouble. In Him all is well. It does not change with the times or seasons of a persons life. His love only becomes more and bigger in our estimation as we see and magnify Christ. His love endures all things. And He teaches us how to love that way. No shadow of turning from God on us from His turning from us because He promises never to turn from us or leave us. "Thou changest not Thy compassions they fail not...Great is Thy faithfulness., Lord unto me......
 
Sep 4, 2012
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It's obvious she was talking to ISIT and not you. Sometimes it really does help to read what is posted. I know it helps me when I do.

Here is her post again if you do read it to see what was said to who.


Oh I see. She started with me, and then switched to ISIT. I apologize to LL for misunderstanding. (It's early... not even through the first cup...)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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maybe, hopefully one day that light will go on and some people would understand that doing good works and being obedient is a REUSLT of grace and faith, not the cause.

it is getting really tiring explaining the same thing to the same people everyday, and they shut their eyes to it.
I look at it this way - we are getting the real gospel of the grace of Christ out when we reveal the truth of what the Lord has already done for us! We have a great salvation in Him.

We are not ashamed of the gospel. In "it" is the power of God for salvation. In "it" the righteousness of God is revealed - not our own self-righteousness.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Oh I see. She started with me, and then switched to ISIT. I apologize to LL for misunderstanding. (It's early... not even through the first cup...)
No real harm done brother..we all do those sort of things from time to time...( at least I have caught myself doing it )...bless you and have a great day!...:)
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
Jude quoted from the prophesies of Enoch,

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

The prophesies of Enoch was originally apart of the scriptures up to the 3rd century where it fell out of use. The known copies are Slavonic and Ethiopic Enoch, a copy of which I have. It goes into good detail where Genesis 6:1 barely touches on regarding the son's of God, the angels who took wives for themselves from the daughters of mankind and their resulting offspring being giants. It also goes into detail about the teachings of those angels, also referred to as "the watchers of heaven" who taught mankind about sorcery, the dividing of roots and trees, astrology, how to make weapons of war, the motions of the moon and the stars and many other things that caused mankind to become corrupted. The flood is also mentioned and well has Noah, Michael the archangel and Gabriel.
thanks for the info, huh wonder if the the book of Enoch fell out of use because thousands upon thousands of judges didn't quite line up with the OT that says one God the one judge of man under Gods law the Ten Commandments. The NT of grace of Christ thus Jesus the one lawyer for Gods law.

Upon reading about Enoch which in Hebrew language meaning dedicated, it's my understanding the bible mentions Enoch three times,, the first Enoch mentioned is a son of Cain, Cain the first son of Adam and Eve, the second Enoch mentioned is a town named after the first Enoch,built by Cain, apparently in the land of Nod, the third Enoch is a son of Jared, of the line of Seth third son of Adam and Eve thus the seventh generation where Adam is the first.

As far as the watchers of Heaven teaching about sorcery dividing roots and trees,astrology, weapons of war,motions of the moon,stars and of things being corrupted Are these accounts from actual quotes from this book of Enoch??
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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thanks for the info, huh wonder if the the book of Enoch fell out of use because thousands upon thousands of judges didn't quite line up with the OT that says one God the one judge of man under Gods law the Ten Commandments. The NT of grace of Christ thus Jesus the one lawyer for Gods law.

Upon reading about Enoch which in Hebrew language meaning dedicated, it's my understanding the bible mentions Enoch three times,, the first Enoch mentioned is a son of Cain, Cain the first son of Adam and Eve, the second Enoch mentioned is a town named after the first Enoch,built by Cain, apparently in the land of Nod, the third Enoch is a son of Jared, of the line of Seth third son of Adam and Eve thus the seventh generation where Adam is the first.

As far as the watchers of Heaven teaching about sorcery dividing roots and trees,astrology, weapons of war,motions of the moon,stars and of things being corrupted Are these accounts from actual quotes from this book of Enoch??
Morning BeyondET,

If I remember correctly in the introduction, it stated that there was a stigma between whether to keep the book of Enoch or Revelation and Revelation won out and Enoch fell out of disuse. I'll list some of the information of how the Ethiopic Enoch was retrieved and any other information. I do feel the Spirits confirmation of genuineness when I read it though. It really opens up what was going on to cause God to flood the earth and where Enoch went when he was taken and much detail regarding the angels that Enoch was with.

As far as the watchers of Heaven teaching about sorcery dividing roots and trees,astrology, weapons of war,motions of the moon,stars and of things being corrupted Are these accounts from actual quotes from this book of Enoch??


Yes, it lists all of what these watchers were teaching mankind and goes into the details regarding Genesis 6:1. I'll post some of those details later.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
Morning BeyondET,

If I remember correctly in the introduction, it stated that there was a stigma between whether to keep the book of Enoch or Revelation and Revelation won out and Enoch fell out of disuse. I'll list some of the information of how the Ethiopic Enoch was retrieved and any other information. I do feel the Spirits confirmation of genuineness when I read it though. It really opens up what was going on to cause God to flood the earth and where Enoch went when he was taken and much detail regarding the angels that Enoch was with.



[/COLOR]Yes, it lists all of what these watchers were teaching mankind and goes into the details regarding Genesis 6:1. I'll post some of those details later.
Goodmorning to you Ahwatukee
well in my opinion the mentioning of thousands of judges doesn't quite make since to me, in my opinion there is only one judge.
It appears Ill have to do some reading to see for myself what is said of this book of Enoch and revelations because Enoch being of a descendent of Cain leaving me kind of suspect in its genuiness in my view. but indeed thanks again for the info I'll study some more of bible revelation speaking of thousands of judges and in this book of Enoch because I can't say at this moment it is written in revelations about thousands of judges nor of Enoch validation.
 
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
enoch is gnostic and not inspired word of God
Can you (or someone) attempt to prove this statement? If not here, in a PM to me?

Post 422 is not sufficient for my liking. :p

Thanks
 
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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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Hello,

well in my opinion the mentioning of thousands of judges doesn't quite make since to me, in my opinion there is only one judge.


What are your talking about regarding the "thousands of judges?" The Enoch that I was speaking of is
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, The Enoch that God took, not the Enoch of Cain's offspring. That's a different Enoch.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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I was showing how Paul pulled these verses out of their contexts here



Snipped out your nitpicking at my spelling and your own example as you set forth as its not useful I was using Paul's own.



I responded,



Which are also shown here where these specific verses in the footnotes are gathered up here


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 10



Which is why InSpiritInTruth said,





He is speaking of the rules that you applied, which you did not know was Paul's, but it was from his example that I had pulled out from (even from the first) as set forth in Romans 10 there

Gotta love it! Both me and Paul "cherry pick" verses to support our message. :)
 
Jan 7, 2015
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And to answer ISIT post#354 God no longer curses us.,we are IN His Son., so there is no need to warn us of curses so He does not do that. (you need to find out who is cursed) No more curses come down on those who are in Christ. Jesus took every curse meant for everyone born in Adam who have been reborn in Christ. There is no curse or fear of a curse for us. For you to preach and teach it is unbiblical.
The prophecy of the falling away from the faith is very real, but many do not believe it to be true, like those who believe in OSAS, which is why there is so much hatred toward my threads warning people of this very real danger and the dangers of ongoing sin. If you are truly in Christ you would agree with this message because the Holy Spirit gave it. The Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth spoke of it through Jesus and the apostles, as I showed with multiple verses of scripture.

If you are sealed by the Holy Spirit, and are truly in Christ then you have nothing to worry about, so why all the fuss against the message? But to say the warnings and curses mentioned in the Bible are unbiblical and should not be taught is just plain ridiculous. God has always sent his prophets, apostles, disciples to preach both the blessings and the curses. Many in these last days have departed from the truth of the gospel and have been led astray by many deceivers. So I warn others of this, not to condemn, but to call them back to the Truth, to an obedient walk of faith, and to cease from a lifestyle of ongoing sin that they might be saved.

It is those who continue in sin, hypocrites, those who are disobedience and are in constant rebellion toward Gods words of Truth that are the cursed children.

2 Peter 2:14 "Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,008
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have you ever read the books of enoch? or have you just read what is said about it by the conrending factions pretending authority? look.

I'm saying, read the book lol there is no argument it was written before the birth of Christ. scientifically or historically. forget what religion has labeled things, religion is corrupt badly. heres my point to anyone who actually has an open mind to Gods spirit. the first book of enoch chapter 48

" 1. In that place I beheld a fountain of righteousness, which never failed, encircled by many springs of wisdom. Of these all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy.
2. In that hour was this Son of man invoked before the Lord of spirits, and his name in the presence of the Ancient of days.
3. Before the sun and the signs were created, before the stars of heaven were formed, his name was invoked in the presence of the Lord of spirits. A support shall he be for the righteous and the holy to lean upon, without falling; and he shall be the light of nations.
4. He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of the Lord of spirits.
5. Therefore the Elect and the Concealed One existed in his presence, before the world was created, and for ever.
6. In his presence he existed, and has revealed to the saints and to the righteous the wisdom of the Lord of spirits; for he has preserved the lot of the righteous, because they have hated and rejected this world of iniquity, and have detested all its works and ways, in the name of the Lord of spirits.
7. For in his name shall they be preserved; and his will shall be their life. In those days shall the kings of the earth and the mighty men, who have gained the world by their achievements, 1 become humble in countenance.
8. For in the day of their anxiety and trouble their souls shall not be saved; and they shall be in subjection to those whom I have chosen.
9. I will cast them like hay into the fire, and like lead into the water. Thus shall they burn in the presence of the righteous, and sink in the presence of the holy; nor shall a tenth part of them be found.
10. But in the day of their trouble, the world shall obtain tranquillity.
11. In his presence shall they fall, and not be raised up again; nor shall there be any one to take them out of his hands, and to lift them up: for they have denied the Lord of spirits, and his Messiah. The name of the Lord of spirits shall be blessed.



AT LEAST, 250 years before Christs birth. compare this with what the bible says about Jesus. I'm becoming more and more conviced daily that there are no errors whatsoever in the books of Enoch. I know the Bible well. front to Back, trust Gods spirit for discernment. tell me the above scriptures from enoch, along with pauls references continually in thessolonicans, peters references to the text of the books, judes statement that ENOCH PROPHESIED these things. and then quoted the text itself. it is inspired for certain. and supports the truth of The Bible in every way. How bout considering the angel who arrives late in revelation holding the little scroll? how about the man of lawlwessness, the great falling away ect that paul always references? beyond any logical doubt the new testament writers all had good understanding of Enochs writings, anyone who would study them a little can see it.

paul, peter, jude, james also. every one of them, and most importantly this thought : Jesus teachings about the poor, about keeping the commandments and remaining in Gods Love so many things he says are written in enochs books long before Jesus was born. following what the internet says of things isn't always the best way of learning things, or trusting the catholic churches authority of what belongs or doesn't belong in the bible. and think why was it lost? yeah oh that's right, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ad. so yeah probably read Ezekiel about the zadokite priests preserving things because they were the only ones allowed in Gods presence by then, being from what line? also think it through Enoch was noahs grandfather, so I wonder if noah would have preserved His granpas writings? Bieng the one who didn't Die? wich is also accounted in the books of enoch. and honestly, you have no possible way of the statement that Enoch wasn't the author. Not even possible to claim that as truth.

I didn't mean this to be a big issue, common sense to me is to first read text thoroughly and then decide whether its valuable or worthy of rejection. if someone Knows scripture from the Bible well at all, they will find vast amounts of good and perfect knowledge in enoch. the chapter 48 writing is only a sample that is perfectly in Line with Jesus, with all the prophets and apostolic writings in the new testament. label it gnostic...yeah okay its from the 2nd temple period. but understand these texts all of them were passed on and copied through time. the oldest copy known of enoch was one of four found in the caves along the dead sea. the same caves psalms was located in. but realize hahaha the destruction of Jerusalem happened 70 ad, and if jude quotes the text directly and says enoch prophesied....that is biblical proof that its inspired of God. prophets are inspired of God. Son of Man wasn't only what Jesus called Himself remember? old testament prophets??? Son of man, say this to them....


everything isn't in the Bible. that's exactly like pauls writings, people assume he established churches with them. No. He sent letters, for rebuke and encouragement to churches already established. Som that He helped establish. yet, do you suppose every writing of paul is preserved? every writing of peter? all cannonozed? no one needs to know the book of enoch for salvation. But it is absolutely inspired by God , regardless if it is in the Bible. Id say enoch and also noah wrote the books as it claims. But again, that's something the reader would have to look into and decide. I know its accurate and before much of what we read in the bible, doesn't one time disagree ( that I have yet read) with the Bible. vast amounts of Knowledge in there, that helps to understand things though, that I'm positive of. you too haha good day.[/in Quote]
______________________________________________________________



Again you assumed that I have not open it up and took time to read it. There is to something known as the harmony of Scriptures. There is a reason why the 66 Books fit as one because the Author was God. Secondly you to assume one received the opinion about Enoch from " following the internet". And you suggest that just because you have read the bible and studied it and following the Spirit for discernment others are not?.

there are people more gifted then I and you who have drawn the same conclusion. There is a reason why those books have not been added to the Bible for canonization.

the obvious and common sense as i see it are well seen.
in addition I would say:
there are things with this book that bring concern : the book of Enoch cannot with out a shadow of doubt said to be the actual writings of Enoch himself. You state you "wonder if Noah would have preserved His Granpas writing"? That is not even known and cannot be proven. And you have no possible way of saying it is Enoch who wrote it.
But what we do know is one should not look at the book of Enoch to give relevance to the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ when we have the writings of Eyes Witnesses and The Word of Jesus Himself provided through the Holy Spirit in the Apostles and other eyewitnesses. Jesus said the Temple would Be destroyed in Matt 24:1-2 can the book be beneficial ? yes. is it authoritative? no, . And that not from the Internet LOL Thats Christian systmatic Theology 101.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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Not exactly...if you read it closely - you will see Paul changed Deut 30.

Paul in Romans changed the Old Covenant wording in Deut. 30:14 - he exchanged the "in thine hands to do it" which is pure 100% law.

Paul in Romans 10 changed the wording to " the word of faith" which is speaking out what you believe in order to receive. This is all done by grace through faith alone in Christ's finished work.

Therein is the difference between the Old and New Covenant :

In the Old - you "did in order to get" In the New Covenant " you believe in order to receive" what Christ has already done. It's called the "word of faith" and it's enacted by speaking.

This is where works-based salvationists have a hard time with the gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation. They are mixing the covenants up and trying to do things in order to get and maintain salvation.

The pure gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to this mindset and thus they need to do things in order to establish and maintain their own righteousness for salvation just like it was commanded in the Old Covenant.


Romans 10:5-10 (NASB)

[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

There you go again with the Hyper grace message which tries to remove the "doing" aspect of the faith. Paul was not changing the wording to eliminate the "doing" aspect of the faith, that is just your own twist.

Deuteronomy 30:14
But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Romans 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"

Now notice what Paul said in verse 10...[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness.

It is the true faith that produces the "doing" or "walking in" righteousness and bearing good fruit.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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There you go again with the Hyper grace message which tries to remove the "doing" aspect of the faith. Paul was not changing the wording to eliminate the "doing" aspect of the faith, that is just your own twist.

Deuteronomy 30:14
But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Romans 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"

Now notice what Paul said in verse 10...[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness.

It is the true faith that produces the "doing" or "walking in" righteousness and bearing good fruit.
And this below is the difference between "works righteousness" and faith righteousness for salvation. ( as in going to be with the Lord when we die )

In the Old - you "did in order to get" In the New Covenant " you believe in order to receive" what Christ has already done. It's called the "word of faith" and it's enacted by speaking.

This is where works-based salvationists have a hard time with the gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation. They are mixing the covenants up and trying to do things in order to get and maintain salvation.

The pure gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to this mindset and thus they need to do things in order to establish and maintain their own righteousness for salvation just like it was commanded in the Old Covenant.

In the New Covenant we receive Christ's righteousness because we believe NOT because "we do".

I have posted this at least 20x times in the past and many others have said the exact same thing in many ways but I'll do it once more so that you can have it as a record again and hopefully show what is really being said.

Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

Here is how righteousness is manifested to a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now!

This "righteousness " that we already have now in our new creation ( the inner man ) is because we are in Christ - will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.

The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness and sin not..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells.





 
Last edited:
Jan 7, 2015
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And this below is the difference between "works righteousness" and faith righteousness for salvation. ( as in going to be with the Lord when we die )

In the Old - you "did in order to get" In the New Covenant " you believe in order to receive" what Christ has already done. It's called the "word of faith" and it's enacted by speaking.
Nonsense Abraham was saved by faith and imputed righteousness from God even before the law. Salvation has always been based on God's grace through faith which inputs righteousness and produces a "doing" faith that produces good fruit.

The law which came 430 years later could not make void the promise given to Abraham and to his seed by faith, which was Christ working in them. So the Jews who were saved in the OT are also saved based on the same faith in what God said to do, not by the works of law. No one is justified by the works of the law, so it was always based on faith and a working righteousness being manifest in the believer by Christ in them, the seed of promise.