Seventh-day Adventists
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The Bible says not to forsake gathering together.. But it is talking about Christians gathering together.. It is not telling us to gather with non-christians like catholics, muslims, hindus, buddhists, or satanists.
I am always willing to get together with Christians.. It is a great honor and pleasure to fellowship with Christians.. In this day and age i do not meet many.. But when i do it makes my day..
I am always willing to get together with Christians.. It is a great honor and pleasure to fellowship with Christians.. In this day and age i do not meet many.. But when i do it makes my day..
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The word "Sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning. Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians in the New Testament. (Colossians 2:16-17)
*Now if every man from Adam to Moses kept the Sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments, never found in the book of Genesis? *Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the Sabbath? *Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath before Moses? *Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the Sabbath, but were instructed regarding: offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. *Why would God leave out the Sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses?
Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.
The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel:“The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17). Are you an Israelite under the law in the OT?
In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day” (Deuteronomy 5:15).
*Now if every man from Adam to Moses kept the Sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments, never found in the book of Genesis? *Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the Sabbath? *Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath before Moses? *Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the Sabbath, but were instructed regarding: offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. *Why would God leave out the Sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses?
Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.
The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel:“The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17). Are you an Israelite under the law in the OT?
In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day” (Deuteronomy 5:15).
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How is it that your moniker betrays the reality of SDA's? Most are fully aware that it is not "bibleonly." So I ask, can you not see the apparent contradiction in your chosen moniker and your system? Are you unable to see and/or admit the contradiction? SDA is not Bible only, you know this, others know this. It is not Sola Scriptura, nor are you.
My friend if you cannot admit to or see this elementary and apparent problem there are even more severe issues at hand. One must start at the truth and not simply brush these off, for to do so is to progress forward, blindly. I hope God opens your eyes to the truth, Ephesians 1:15-23; 2 Peter 3:9.
My friend if you cannot admit to or see this elementary and apparent problem there are even more severe issues at hand. One must start at the truth and not simply brush these off, for to do so is to progress forward, blindly. I hope God opens your eyes to the truth, Ephesians 1:15-23; 2 Peter 3:9.
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I hear SDA's quote this passage of scripture a lot and teach that Isaiah 66:23 is proof that Christians will observe Sabbath now, and in the new heaven. If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the Jewish Sabbath in the new heaven, then it also teaches we will keep the Jewish New Moon festival in heaven. "And it shall be from new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all mankind will come to bow down before Me, says the Lord” - Isaiah 66:23. Let's be consistent.
SDA's have the Jewish new moon festival observances in the new heaven based on the above text. If you insist on Sabbath observances based on Isaiah 66:23, then you also need to observe new moons as well. Yet from what I hear, most Sabbatarian’s don’t observe new moons. That’s inconsistent. Are New moons and Sabbath keeping a requirement for Christians based on the New Covenant terms? NO.
*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Will there be Levital Priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the Jewish Sabbath in the new heaven, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it is also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical Priesthood under the New Covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. *The Old and New Covenants do not mix.
SDA's have the Jewish new moon festival observances in the new heaven based on the above text. If you insist on Sabbath observances based on Isaiah 66:23, then you also need to observe new moons as well. Yet from what I hear, most Sabbatarian’s don’t observe new moons. That’s inconsistent. Are New moons and Sabbath keeping a requirement for Christians based on the New Covenant terms? NO.
*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Will there be Levital Priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the Jewish Sabbath in the new heaven, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it is also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical Priesthood under the New Covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. *The Old and New Covenants do not mix.
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Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.
*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Even when SDA's set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).
If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.
Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The old covenant was a conditional agreement that God made with the Israelites. The old covenant was in effect during the dispensation of law. We are not under the law, but under grace.
The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated in the New Testament, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - as Matthew 5:33,34; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns." But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).
The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Even when SDA's set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).
If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.
Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The old covenant was a conditional agreement that God made with the Israelites. The old covenant was in effect during the dispensation of law. We are not under the law, but under grace.
The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated in the New Testament, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - as Matthew 5:33,34; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns." But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).
The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
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Brother Anderson, who was a member of the SDA Church for 33 years, was astonished and amazed when he began studying the Bible instead of Ellen White's books and made the shocking discovery that SDA truth is different from Biblical truth. He found that some SDA teachings are not based upon Scripture at all but upon tradition, conjecture of the early pioneers, and statements made by the prophetess Ellen White. - http://www.nonsda.org
I understand what you're saying. The letter does kill, and that is why I believe Sabbath should be kept in the spirit--though not necessarily each letter--of the Old Testament regulations. That is, do no unnecessary work on Sabbath, do not buy or sell, and keep it a day of rememberance and fellowship with God. Most SDAs do keep these OT regulations of how to keep the Sabbath. But context is taken into consideration, and Jesus' words about the Sabbath are also kept in view. "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27), along with others.
As for the Sabbath no longer being binding, I believe that Jesus kept the Sabbath, that He rested on the Sabbath even in death along with His disciples (Luke 23:56), and that He never gave a command to change the law He had already established at Creation and written in stone at Mt. Sinai. The disciples may have gathered on Sunday, but there is no evidence of them making it the new day of worship.
Because of all the evidence of the Sabbath being a part of God's eternal law, I think that the sabbaths mentioned in Colossians 2:16-17 were part of the other feast days and ceremonies that were "a shadow of things to come," rather than an everlasting memorial of God's creative and redemptive power that was written in stone.
As for the Sabbath no longer being binding, I believe that Jesus kept the Sabbath, that He rested on the Sabbath even in death along with His disciples (Luke 23:56), and that He never gave a command to change the law He had already established at Creation and written in stone at Mt. Sinai. The disciples may have gathered on Sunday, but there is no evidence of them making it the new day of worship.
Because of all the evidence of the Sabbath being a part of God's eternal law, I think that the sabbaths mentioned in Colossians 2:16-17 were part of the other feast days and ceremonies that were "a shadow of things to come," rather than an everlasting memorial of God's creative and redemptive power that was written in stone.
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1. Seem to me you do not understand my question.
You do not give definition of judge.
When I say non believer go to hell, is that judge or quote the Bible?
2. On your second sentence you say .....Every person on earth sin has been forgiven for sin that ever and will ever they commit.
Is this your opinion or the teaching of the Bible?
Give me a verse that say Jesus forgive every body on earth.
If so, no body go to hell.
You do not give definition of judge.
When I say non believer go to hell, is that judge or quote the Bible?
2. On your second sentence you say .....Every person on earth sin has been forgiven for sin that ever and will ever they commit.
Is this your opinion or the teaching of the Bible?
Give me a verse that say Jesus forgive every body on earth.
If so, no body go to hell.
The main problem I have with the SDA is their position regarding Ellen White. Many regard her as a prophet and some of their doctrines are based on the fact that she taught them. Her writings are in many ways sound but there are some things that that I would not agree with. Apart from that I do not consider anyone after Christ and John the Baptist to be a prophet however sound their teachings are.
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It does merit consideration, along with other verses about the wicked being burned "forever and ever." But I think the other verses about the wicked being burnt up leaving "neither root nor branch" (Mal. 4:1), and "the soul that sinneth, it shall die," (Ez. 18:4), and Jesus' statements about both body and soul being destroyed in hell (Matt. 10:28) should also be considered. And as one Middle Eastern man told me, "forever and ever" means "until it's completely finished," in his culture. His father told him to burn the trash "forever and ever," and that meant to incinerate it and destroy it completely to ashes. This would also make sense when paired with Jude's statement about the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah suffering "eternal fire," since they are destroyed and not continually burning.
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Here we see hyper-dispensationalism go toxic. This is exactly the reason why it gets such a bad reputation and I start crying everytime I read this stuff. Where do you people get this? Watch how easy it is to debunk: PAUL HIMSELF RECOMMENDED THE WORDS OF JESUS:
1Timothy 6:3
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
Reading the WRONG BOOKS by reading the gospels? Ridicilous. Jesus said His word is forever and the gospel of John is WRITTEN specifically so that people would believe Jesus is the Christ.
These books ARE for you, dont let this guy flimflam you into giving up on a large part of the New Testament, INCLUDING the very words of Jesus Himself in the gospels.
ALL OF THE NT IS FOR EVERY CHRISTIAN TO READ. I dont care what the hyper-dispensational teachers and preachers say.
The spiritual man judgeth ALL things. If nobody is supposed to "judge" anything, you must have not read those letters of Paul you say you appreciate so much. Did you not notice that in EVERY LETTER Paul offered a rebuke of some sort? Try reading 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, is Paul judging everyone there?
In the dispensation of grace? What about Galatians 5:19-21?
Strong rebuke?
1Timothy 6:3
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
Reading the WRONG BOOKS by reading the gospels? Ridicilous. Jesus said His word is forever and the gospel of John is WRITTEN specifically so that people would believe Jesus is the Christ.
These books ARE for you, dont let this guy flimflam you into giving up on a large part of the New Testament, INCLUDING the very words of Jesus Himself in the gospels.
ALL OF THE NT IS FOR EVERY CHRISTIAN TO READ. I dont care what the hyper-dispensational teachers and preachers say.
The spiritual man judgeth ALL things. If nobody is supposed to "judge" anything, you must have not read those letters of Paul you say you appreciate so much. Did you not notice that in EVERY LETTER Paul offered a rebuke of some sort? Try reading 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, is Paul judging everyone there?
In the dispensation of grace? What about Galatians 5:19-21?
Strong rebuke?
Indeed, the fruits of the Spirit should be evident. Since these are heart based, and God is the judge of our hearts, I would hope that anyone who declares fruit real or counterfeit, would consult with God first. If someone declares themselves a Christian, their words should reflect what God has accomplished in their lives and that in turn alters their actions towards pleasing God, not a religion.
I’ve met people with a sweet personality that have no clue what grace is, or how it’s obtained. Being nice or sincere has replaced orthodox theology these days, even many professing Christians “hope” their good works outweigh their bad.
I’ve met people with a sweet personality that have no clue what grace is, or how it’s obtained. Being nice or sincere has replaced orthodox theology these days, even many professing Christians “hope” their good works outweigh their bad.
