Re: Should "Sabbath keepers" discuss/debate keeping Sabbath online on the Sabbath?
I only observe what you write and it is very evident that you have strong prejudices in what you write.
Until God makes us righteous in Christ we cannot do or be righteous. The OT makes this point very clearly. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute iniquity. All our righteousness is as a filthy rag before the Lord. In romans Paul tells us in Romans that the unsaved man is not righteous and none seek to do good. Good works done outside of the Holy Spirit are not counted for righteousness sake.
Jesus taught that as branches we bear the fruit of the vine. We do not produce the fruit but the vine produces the fruit. To produce good fruit we must be in the vine Who is the source of our eternal righteousness.
Grace is far better than legalism. That is because grace is Gods way and legalism is mans way.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Mat_7:23 Then I will tell them to their faces, 'I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!'
Rom_6:19 (I am using popular language because your human nature is so weak.) For just as you used to offer your various parts as slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led to more lawlessness; so now offer your various parts as slaves to righteousness, which leads to being made holy, set apart for God.
2Co_6:14 Do not yoke yourselves together in a team with unbelievers. For how can righteousness and lawlessness be partners? What fellowship does light have with darkness?
Psa_119:64 The earth, Adonai, is full of your grace; teach me your laws.
Psa_119:124 Deal with your servant in accordance with your grace, and teach me your laws.
Rom_3:20 For in his sight no one alive will be considered righteous on the ground of legalistic observance of Torah commands, because what Torah really does is show people how sinful they are.
Rom_3:27 So what room is left for boasting? None at all! What kind of Torah excludes it? One that has to do with legalistic observance of rules? No, rather, a Torah that has to do with trusting.
Rom_3:28 Therefore, we hold the view that a person comes to be considered righteous by God on the ground of trusting, which has nothing to do with legalistic observance of Torah commands.
Rom_6:19 (I am using popular language because your human nature is so weak.) For just as you used to offer your various parts as slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led to more lawlessness; so now offer your various parts as slaves to righteousness, which leads to being made holy, set apart for God.
It is absolute truth that we are saved by grace!! And after grace there is no more sacrifice to be made on our behalf. I speak of the work of Jesus Christ. Many have been taught that the Bible teaches Torah is done away with by Christ fulfilling it. Christ said He did not come to destroy it, but many have been taught that fulfilled and destroy means the same thing, which it does not. I am saved by grace and now take the ancient paths for our God says:
Jer_6:16 Here is what Adonai says: "Stand at the crossroads and look; ask about the ancient paths, 'Which one is the good way?' Take it, and you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not take it.'
Are you of the ones who said "We will not take it"?
Mat_7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
What is the will of Christ's heavenly Father?
Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Rom_1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
God's way is Torah, that is 2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
INSTRUCTION
Psa_50:17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.
Pro_1:2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
Pro_1:3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
Pro_1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pro_1:8 My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
Pro_4:1 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
Pro_4:13 Take fast hold of instruction; let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life.
Pro_5:12 And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;
Pro_5:23 He shall die without instruction; and in the greatness of his folly he shall go astray.
Pro_6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
Pro_8:10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
Pro_8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro_9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
Pro_10:17 He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.
Pro_12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.
Pro_13:1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.
Pro_13:18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.
Pro_15:5 A fool despiseth his father's instruction: but he that regardeth reproof is prudent.
Pro_15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.
Pro_15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.
Pro_16:22 Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.
Pro_19:20 Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end.
Pro_19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.
Pro_23:12 Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.
Pro_23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
Pro_24:32 Then I saw, and considered it well: I looked upon it, and received instruction.
Jer_17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.
Jer_32:33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.
Jer_35:13 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Go and tell the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, Will ye not receive instruction to hearken to my words? saith the LORD.
Ok Roger, I'll whole hearted agree that there is somebody somewhere who is trying to gain salvation by the flesh, but it ain't me or the others here who seek to be obedient to God's Words, which are Christ's Words, which are written on our hearts.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
I am in the new covenant, with God's laws written on my heart, have the Holy Spirit who is given to those who obey, and have as a written and sure testimony the Bible, of both OT and NT writings.
Roger, are you in the New Covenant? Are you part of Israel, either House of Israel or House of Judah or a stranger who has joined into God's House? If yes, then why fight being obedient to the commandments? Being obedient never made anyone unsaved. If you have a flesh problem with pride, then attack your pride and not the Words of God.
Shalom
