SHOULD WE CHECK OUR DENOMINATIONS FOR TRUTH?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#21
The word of God and Constatine had no part in starting "OUR CHURCH"...........!!!!!!
This is why I think Christians need to study the history of the established church. Members of the true church need this information to decide on their established churches doctrine, or they come up with statements like this.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#22
Jesus set up the true church which teaches the same doctrine that Jesus taught in his day. The history that I have read from a small book titled 'The trail of tears", to me, is more believable than most. The RCC did not exist when the church was set up. Early on in the church two of the elders were in disagreement over adding to the original principles of preaching, praying and making melody in your heart by singing songs. There was a split in the church, one elder holding only to the three principles and the other elder adding several more principles to attract the interest of the masses. The larger number of membership followed adding principles and this division grew so great in number that it became a threat to the Roman government, so they incorporated it to be the RCC. The 3 principle division continued to practice as a small group compared to the population as a whole and were a target of the RCC to wipe them out. Paul participated in this attempt, before his conversion on the road to Damascus. This, in history was called the dark ages. The true church was never a part of the RCC and therefore was never a part of the reformation period in the 1500's. The true church will always exist as a small group, the remnant, the few, etc.
When you study history of the establishment of our churches interpretation of scripture I feel certain that it must never be done by reading only one person's view. Even true facts can be misleading on any issue by giving only one side of it. As an example there are histories of Constantine, all true, that show him as a saint and there are histories also true showing him as something of a demon. In order to find out if his ideas had lasting effects on our churches today requires reading the reports of church councils for hundreds of years, checking their decisions with scripture, and finding out what motivated them to make those decisions.

The Catholic Church keeps record of these councils and claims them as part of their denomination. I read these reports for councils for 700 years and found that the motive for many decisions they made was to separate the established church from Jewishness. That idea started early in church history, but Constantine made it a policy. I seldom found a motive of only following what God tells us in these reports. After 700 years I got lazy and didn't go further. The decisions they made were ones that could be found in our established churches today even after the protestant revolution.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#23
You confuse "God's principles" with the Law as given to Moses. They are NOT the same thing. If you understood the OT you would understand the distinction. The Law was given TO ISRAEL, not to the whole world. It was God's requirement FOR ISRAEL, not for the whole world. It was PART of God's plan of salvation, intended to bring about the Messiah, and intended to be set aside upon the arrival of the New covenant.

Imagine your daily transportation is a derelict 1960's motor-assisted bicycle. Sometimes the engine starts, and when it does, usually you have to nurse it carefully to keep it running. Many times you have had to get off an push your way up the hills because the motor has failed. Then, you learn that you have inherited an almost-new sedan that is still under warranty. Upon delivery, you lovingly clean it inside and out, park it in the garage, and continue trying to get to work on your derelict motorized bicycle.

That's what you have done with the OT Law. You're still trying to make an obsolete system work for you, when you have all the "vehicle" that you would ever need right at your fingertips.
What you are telling us is the same as saying that the God we worship is an outdated God, too outdated to be followed and wasn't eternal at all. You say not to listen to God the Father, He is old fashioned. That is not what Christ teaches us.

In the OT as an example, we are taught the symbolism God uses when He speaks of water. I don't care if you call it law or not, but it is there for us to learn along with such as the effects stealing has on us.

The Catholic Church claims St Peter, chosen by Christ, as the first pope.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#24
What you are telling us is the same as saying that the God we worship is an outdated God, too outdated to be followed and wasn't eternal at all. You say not to listen to God the Father, He is old fashioned. That is not what Christ teaches us.

In the OT as an example, we are taught the symbolism God uses when He speaks of water. I don't care if you call it law or not, but it is there for us to learn along with such as the effects stealing has on us.

The Catholic Church claims St Peter, chosen by Christ, as the first pope.
* sigh *

No. I'm telling you that your understanding of the nature and purpose of the Law is simply wrong.

I did not say anywhere not to listen to God the Father. Don't put words in my mouth.

What the Catholics teach about Peter being the first pope is not based on real history.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#25
* sigh *

No. I'm telling you that your understanding of the nature and purpose of the Law is simply wrong.

I did not say anywhere not to listen to God the Father. Don't put words in my mouth.

What the Catholics teach about Peter being the first pope is not based on real history.
So you are in the know of my understanding!! Wow. Do you know how tall I am, also?

My understanding of the law is that God is telling us how the world operates. We call it law. We are born in sin, we must not sin to be saved, and that is impossible for us so we need what Christ did for us to give us His righteousness. We are to learn what the law is, for it directs us in this life, we are dead to sin through Christ so we take on the goal of being righteous even though we cannot reach it on our own but only through Christ. What is your understanding of the law? I hear you complain often about how you understand all and others don't. What is this great understanding you have that makes you criticize all others?

If your former post is not saying my understanding is outdated and old fashioned, when what this post is about is listening to the Father, and your post was in opposition, then what in the world are you saying is so old fashioned about my posting?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#26
* sigh *

What the Catholics teach about Peter being the first pope is not based on real history.
Did I say the Catholics are correct in everything?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#27
So you are in the know of my understanding!! Wow. Do you know how tall I am, also?
If your understanding of the Law is not expressed in your many posts, then no, I don't know how tall you are.

My understanding of the law is that God is telling us how the world operates. We call it law. We are born in sin, we must not sin to be saved, and that is impossible for us so we need what Christ did for us to give us His righteousness. We are to learn what the law is, for it directs us in this life, we are dead to sin through Christ so we take on the goal of being righteous even though we cannot reach it on our own but only through Christ. What is your understanding of the law? I hear you complain often about how you understand all and others don't. What is this great understanding you have that makes you criticize all others?
Unless you are committing the fallacy of equivocation, the Law is the Law as given through Moses to Israel. We are to understand it as it related to Israel. We are to note the prophecies contained therein, and their fulfillment later in Scripture and in history. You do make one clearly correct statement: "that is impossible for us so we need what Christ did...." We are to learn that our attempts to attain righteousness are doomed to failure.

I have never claimed that I understand all and others don't, so I have no need to respond to that comment.

If your former post is not saying my understanding is outdated and old fashioned, when what this post is about is listening to the Father, and your post was in opposition, then what in the world are you saying is so old fashioned about my posting?
I didn't use the words "outdated" or "old fashioned" either. Is it so hard for you to quote me verbatim? I don't choose my words carelessly. I used the word "derelict" in my illustration.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#28
Did I say the Catholics are correct in everything?
No, you did not. That statement seemed disconnected from the rest of your post.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,076
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#29
Wow... revisionist history at its finest!

You are claiming that the RCC existed prior to 40 AD, as Paul underwent his conversion experience prior to 40 AD.

Any other counter-historical claims you want to make? How about you go ahead and reveal your true identity, Dan Brown!
You better reread my post, I did not claim that the RCC existed then. The Roman government did but not the RCC.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,076
356
83
#30
Wow... revisionist history at its finest!

You are claiming that the RCC existed prior to 40 AD, as Paul underwent his conversion experience prior to 40 AD.

Any other counter-historical claims you want to make? How about you go ahead and reveal your true identity, Dan Brown!
And when was the RCC constituted? And who is Dan Brown?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,076
356
83
#31
You better reread my post, I did not claim that the RCC existed then. The Roman government did but not the RCC.
I may have to retract this statement. I was assuming that the RCC was in existence at that time.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,198
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#32
You better reread my post, I did not claim that the RCC existed then. The Roman government did but not the RCC.
I may have to retract this statement. I was assuming that the RCC was in existence at that time.
Here are your earlier words: "The larger number of membership followed adding principles and this division grew so great in number that it became a threat to the Roman government, so they incorporated it to be the RCC. The 3 principle division continued to practice as a small group compared to the population as a whole and were a target of the RCC to wipe them out. Paul participated in this attempt, before his conversion on the road to Damascus."

It really looks like you are asserting the existence of an organized Roman Catholic Church in the first half of the first century. However, as you are admitting the possibility of error, I will let it go.

As to Dan Brown, he is the author of The Da Vinci Code, a pseudo-historical novel that directly attacks the foundations of biblical Christianity.
 

Kim82

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
547
441
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#33
There is a simple truth that we all know. And that is, love your neighbour as yourself. We can't even do this basic thing so then why are we trying to search out other truths? When we find out the truth what will we do with the info, other than being puffed up with knowledge? Scripture say everything will pass away, even knowledge. But love remain forever. 1Cor 13:8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end.

Scripture says, we won't know all the truth at this time. 1Cor 13:9-10 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

1Cor 13:12 Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

No church or denomination is perfect. They all have truth, as well as wrong information/interpretation.
 

3angelsmsg

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2018
152
120
43
#34
There is a simple truth that we all know. And that is, love your neighbour as yourself. We can't even do this basic thing so then why are we trying to search out other truths? When we find out the truth what will we do with the info, other than being puffed up with knowledge? Scripture say everything will pass away, even knowledge. But love remain forever. 1Cor 13:8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end.

Scripture says, we won't know all the truth at this time. 1Cor 13:9-10 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

1Cor 13:12 Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

No church or denomination is perfect. They all have truth, as well as wrong information/interpretation.
Hi Kim82,

I agree with you. I do however believe that there is present truth for our day that needs to be preached. Like for example, in the days of Noah. He preached the flood.

And our day, it is the second coming of Christ. However there are so many interpretations of Jesus Coming. The devil is master of misleading the human race.

The climax is Jesus return, and like His first coming. The people got it wrong again. So truth is important to warn and to prepare. And many time, the popular view is not always biblical. Just because it is accepted by majority it not always right. God's people were always in minority.

And the truth will make impact, but it for you to open up or reject.

God is building His own church.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#35
In all the replies disagreeing with my post, there seems to be a lot about the Catholic Church. I cannot see how the name given the denomination that held the first church councils can be a reason to dispute my post. What they decided about bible interpretation is the subject I am referring to, I don't think the name of the councils makes any difference.

The belief that God was dealing only with physical Israel in much of the OT does make a difference. In all my study I have found that God is God of all, God had every human in mind when God dealt with us. All scripture refers to Israel as God's people who have faith in the Lord and believe in Him. It tells us so in many ways. God states that strangers who have faith in Him are part of Israel, as Ruth and Rehab are just two gentiles included in Israel.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,768
511
113
#36
There is a simple truth that we all know. And that is, love your neighbour as yourself. We can't even do this basic thing so then why are we trying to search out other truths? When we find out the truth what will we do with the info, other than being puffed up with knowledge? Scripture say everything will pass away, even knowledge. But love remain forever. 1Cor 13:8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end.

Scripture says, we won't know all the truth at this time. 1Cor 13:9-10 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

1Cor 13:12 Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

No church or denomination is perfect. They all have truth, as well as wrong information/interpretation.
I agree. But all truth has great power. Our churches spread the gospel, and what greater truth is there than that!

But by adding other truths, those truths also have power. Our churches have lost power. Just think of the power it would gain if we accepted the simple truths given in the feasts, as just one small example.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,076
356
83
#37
Here are your earlier words: "The larger number of membership followed adding principles and this division grew so great in number that it became a threat to the Roman government, so they incorporated it to be the RCC. The 3 principle division continued to practice as a small group compared to the population as a whole and were a target of the RCC to wipe them out. Paul participated in this attempt, before his conversion on the road to Damascus."

It really looks like you are asserting the existence of an organized Roman Catholic Church in the first half of the first century. However, as you are admitting the possibility of error, I will let it go.

As to Dan Brown, he is the author of The Da Vinci Code, a pseudo-historical novel that directly attacks the foundations of biblical Christianity.
I am unfamiliar with most men's interpretation of the scriptures and am convinced that the truth of the scriptures comes only through the direct revelation of the Holy Spirit.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,768
511
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#38
I am unfamiliar with most men's interpretation of the scriptures and am convinced that the truth of the scriptures comes only through the direct revelation of the Holy Spirit.
That is not what scripture tells us. Scripture speaks often about hearing the word. Even the Lord's Prayer speaks of this, daily we ask for our daily bread. That bread is not only food, it is the words of the Lord.

It is a shame that Christians who ask Christ to come into their hearts do not want to follow Him in living in such a way that is most pleasing to the Lord as Christ did. You would think, if they accept Christ as their savior and accept His righteousness that their life would center around learning all about their God. Instead they spend their time patting themselves on the back, saying they have all the truth even though they are human who do not have truth within them, it is truth through Christ.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,198
5,609
113
#39
That is not what scripture tells us. Scripture speaks often about hearing the word. Even the Lord's Prayer speaks of this, daily we ask for our daily bread. That bread is not only food, it is the words of the Lord.

It is a shame that Christians who ask Christ to come into their hearts do not want to follow Him in living in such a way that is most pleasing to the Lord as Christ did. You would think, if they accept Christ as their savior and accept His righteousness that their life would center around learning all about their God. Instead they spend their time patting themselves on the back, saying they have all the truth even though they are human who do not have truth within them, it is truth through Christ.
Who does this? Who says this? Please identify and quote them.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,423
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#40
what 'denom' did Jesus tell us that we should identify with???