Signs and wonders in comparison to the authority of scripture

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Must the Word of God be equipped with signs and wonders to be authoritive?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • No

    Votes: 12 70.6%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • I do not know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    17

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,427
4,195
113
#1
In relation to the signs and wonders that Jesus did and of the Apostles, I have come across a teaching that states that the Word alone if not equipped with signs and wonders like Jesus portrayed and that of the Apostles then the Word will not be as effective as it could be.

As to not muddy the water, I'll hold my opinion.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
6,904
3,110
113
mywebsite.us
#2
Hebrews 4:

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Seems to me the Word can be just as effective as it needs to be without any help...

~

The signs and wonders were for the lost - having no faith. If you have faith, you don't need signs and wonders.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
6,904
3,110
113
mywebsite.us
#3
And, the Sword transforms the mind, heart, and soul - no signs and wonders are needed.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
10,616
9,045
113
#5
'And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will cast
out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”…'

Not all encounters sharing the gospel need a sign or wonder, but when the Holy Spirit is present, esp in big crowds, people can be saved and healed through the Spirit.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,688
10,281
113
#6
In relation to the signs and wonders that Jesus did and of the Apostles, I have come across a teaching that states that the Word alone if not equipped with signs and wonders like Jesus portrayed and that of the Apostles then the Word will not be as effective as it could be.
That is incorrect. On the other hand signs, wonders, and miracles were necessary to authentic the divine origin of the Gospel (Acts 2, Hebrews 2). At the same time, many prophets in the OT did no miracles but spoke the Word of God with authority. The Word of God itself is a living Word, and therefore it is the Sword of the Spirit. It is the power of God unto salvation when presented as the Gospel.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
3,492
2,007
113
Texas
#7
No. Jesus rebuked people who wanted a sign, and then you read passages like Phillipians 2: 25 -28. Along with others.
This being the end of times, i tend to think about Jesus giving warning about false signs and wonders.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
3,492
2,007
113
Texas
#8
Which does not mean that i dont believe in miracles from God, because i certainly do. Healing especially. I know God heals.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,427
4,195
113
#9
'And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will cast
out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”…'

Not all encounters sharing the gospel need a sign or wonder, but when the Holy Spirit is present, esp in big crowds, people can be saved and healed through the Spirit.
Do you believe we should drink poison?

Many believe these verses were not of original authority as earlier manuscripts did not contain these verses.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
10,616
9,045
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#10
Jesus said:
John 14:12, KJV: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
We don't stop preaching because there are false teachers, nor should we hold back the Holy Spirit presenting signs and wonders, because of false ones.
Why would we drink poison, that's erroneous. But as a couple I recently watched said, when they preach in foreign countries they know they are protected from bad water. Also, the Word confirms that to be so. There are miracle meetings happening where people are jumping out of wheelchairs, healed of cancer and other ailments, in Jesus name. Insane people are being delivered of possession and people are over-joyed in love with Jesus. I wouldn't want to deny the Holy Spirit's blessings.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
3,760
1,573
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#11
The word was already established and proven many times with thousands of signs and wonders. Why would anyone need more?
Even Jesus quoted Abraham, who refered to the books of Moses and the prophets when he was begged by the rich man in hell.

Luke 19

"And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

Jesus did rise from the dead and was seen of over 500 at one point and many others that could have been questioned at that time.

I Corinthians 15:1-4
"
  1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
  2. 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
  3. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
  4. 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
  5. 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
  6. 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep."
How many Eye witnesses to an event are necessary in a court of law?

Acts 16:30, 31

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...
."


Clear Gospel in 4 Minutes
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,688
10,281
113
#16
Many believe these verses were not of original authority as earlier manuscripts did not contain these verses.
There is OVERWHELMING evidence that The Last Twelve Verses of Mark are genuine. Kindly get the book by that title from Amazon, written by John William Burgon, and be informed.

At the same time, the sign gifts were for the apostles and their companions who would preach the Gospel and also show their hearers that they had been sent by God. How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb 2:3,4) Even the apostle Paul did many miracles and called them "THE SIGNS OF AN APOSTLE".

When the Lord sent out the seventy disciples and then the twelve, He gave them power to do miracles in order to show people that they had come from God. However the Bible does not focus on the miracles but on the preaching of the Gospel.

The signs and wonders performed by Christ were also for the same reason. To show the Jews that He had been sent by God. Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: (Acts 2:22). But even the recorded miracles of Christ are only a fraction of what He performed. And then the Gospel of John selected just seven miracles (most of which were not recorded by the Synoptic Gospels) to present the divine power of Christ.

Who today would not want to have seen Christ perform His miracles? Yet many Jews still refused to believe on Him, and His wicked enemies even accused Him of performing miracles by the power of Satan (Beelzebub). That is why when they deceptively asked Him for a "sign" He told them that they only sign they would see was that of the prophet Jonah (IOW Christ's resurrection). And even then they would not believe.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
4,779
1,901
113
#17
Certainly God has used signs and wonders to validate His message; and genuine signs like we read of in the Bible are quite impressive. What passes for signs and wonders these days only hinders God's message.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
8,474
3,625
113
#18
In relation to the signs and wonders that Jesus did and of the Apostles, I have come across a teaching that states that the Word alone if not equipped with signs and wonders like Jesus portrayed and that of the Apostles then the Word will not be as effective as it could be.

As to not muddy the water, I'll hold my opinion.
I've met people who won't believe the gospel unless they knew it was true with proof. I guess there are tens of thousands of ideologies in the world that say they are true and can't prove it. People are really that confused, they don't know what to believe. Signs, miracles, wonders would definitely add weight to the gospel and that's why they were used in the Bible.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
778
287
63
#19
Scriptural evidence: (read all)

Heb 2:1 For this reason we must pay much closer attention to (a)what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved (b)unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just (c)penalty, 3 how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? (d)After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, 4 God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various (e)miracles and by (f)gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.

"Those who heard" weren't just apostles.

Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and (h)signs among the people.

Stephen wasn't an apostle.

Acts 8:5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming (c)Christ to them. 6 The crowds with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the (d)signs which he was performing. 7 For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed and lame were healed. 8 So there was much rejoicing in that city.

PHilip wasn't an apostle, either.

1Cor 14:1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

The entire chapter is covers spiritual gifts to the church with prophecy being foremost, just like Acts 2 which plainly says ALL of the church will show the gift of prophecy.

1Cor 12:1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be unaware. 2You know that when you were [a]pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. 3Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking [c]by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is [d]accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except [e]by the Holy Spirit.
4Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9to another faith [f]by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of [g]healing [h]by the one Spirit, 10and to another the effecting of [j]miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the [k]distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He [l]wills.
12For just as the body is one and yet has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13For [m]by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

More teaching to the church that states that those baptized in the Holy Spirit will minister these gifts according to the needs in the church.


The problem here isn't for a lack of evidence, but rather for a lack of SEEKING.

As tor the "false" gifts.... are we not aware that the true church is outnumbered by false christians, teachers, prophets by at least a million to one & growing daily? It's not the church's fault they're everywhere.

"I can't find a real christian so-&-so". My advice to you is to look in the mirror, then get on your knees & pray to receive what God wants you to have, & believe.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
3,609
1,903
113
London
christianchat.com
#20
I've met people who won't believe the gospel unless they knew it was true with proof. I guess there are tens of thousands of ideologies in the world that say they are true and can't prove it. People are really that confused, they don't know what to believe. Signs, miracles, wonders would definitely add weight to the gospel and that's why they were used in the Bible.
God watches over His word to perform it ... folks are frightened to preach healing and miracles because their preaching is without power.