Signs and wonders in comparison to the authority of scripture

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Must the Word of God be equipped with signs and wonders to be authoritive?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • No

    Votes: 12 70.6%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • I do not know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    17

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#41
Wow! That is Fascinating! I know those words are supposed to be in there.
I have been bit 3 times by poisonous snakes. 1 water moccasin and 2 times by copperheads. The second time it was that scripture that came to my heart and the LORD completely healed me!

We will need to believe GOD in the days that are coming...
That is amazing!
That healing is worthy of a book! I'll bet your faith was strengthened after that.
You must have done a lot of hiking.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
4,372
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#42
Your criticism of the Critical text is actually unfounded here. The TR was based on a mere handful of late manuscripts... even though the majority of manuscripts discovered since are consistent with them. There was no such thing as the 'majority text' in the 1500's.
Your post betrays a rather hypocritical approach to signs and wonders. You assert that the longer ending of Mark is original, but claim that 1 Corinthians 13:10 refers to the completed canon of Scripture.

The text states that God wrought special miracles... nowhere in Scripture is it hinted that healings were "special miracles". God is still healing today, as He has been since Jesus walked the earth.
So, you must believe that I Corinthians 13:10 refers to the return of Christ?
Whatever.
The debate goes on....There are plenty of supporters of both views.
If you want to believe that, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.
The same goes for the Bible.

Just to make sure I am clear, I believe...
1. God still does miracles .
2. God did an abundance of special miracles at certain times in history.
3. God chose certain special miracles at certain times that we no longer see or experience. Yes, I'm taking about Benny Hinn or any other TV preacher who likes to swing his jacket and babble.
4. People still are often healed as an answer to prayer or simply God's grace. Sometimes that doesn't happen as it did when Jesus and His apostles walked the earth.
I don't see the charismatic Preachers that have used your argument against me out in the hospitals seeing thousands, hundreds of even dozens healed; No streets filled with the handicapped restored. The most I've seen are obnoxious street preachers hollering at the college students about their sins and offering no redemption through Christ.
Not all charismatics behaved that way. I've had plenty as friends. But I had enough of the others....so have a lot of us.
 

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2022
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#43
That is amazing!
That healing is worthy of a book! I'll bet your faith was strengthened after that.
You must have done a lot of hiking.
It happened the first time in the woods. Then on the patio of a bike shop after dark. and the last time I was helping my husband and children clear some wood from an overgrown lot next door. Honestly, the last time I was grumbling in my heart about being out there and then it happened.

It being the second time I was bit by a copperhead made it very severe. I felt like I was leaving my body and my heart was beating so hard and fast I thought it was going to stop. My hands and feet were ice cold. I thought I was dying.

My husband and children came together, and my husband read that scripture and I declared I believe it, because I had been meditating on that scripture to keep from slipping away.

After we prayed, I opened my eyes and every symptom I had was gone! I was healed! I began calling all of my friends to tell them what GOD had done for me. Praise our Father for His Loving Kindness toward us!
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
4,372
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#44
It happened the first time in the woods. Then on the patio of a bike shop after dark. and the last time I was helping my husband and children clear some wood from an overgrown lot next door. Honestly, the last time I was grumbling in my heart about being out there and then it happened.

It being the second time I was bit by a copperhead made it very severe. I felt like I was leaving my body and my heart was beating so hard and fast I thought it was going to stop. My hands and feet were ice cold. I thought I was dying.

My husband and children came together, and my husband read that scripture and I declared I believe it, because I had been meditating on that scripture to keep from slipping away.

After we prayed, I opened my eyes and every symptom I had was gone! I was healed! I began calling all of my friends to tell them what GOD had done for me. Praise our Father for His Loving Kindness toward us!
Praise the Lord! Wow, God is good!
Many people were doubtless strengthened by your testimony, especially your family. What a blessing.
📖🙂👍
 

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2022
628
359
63
#45
Praise the Lord! Wow, God is good!
Many people were doubtless strengthened by your testimony, especially your family. What a blessing.
📖🙂👍
I believe my older children have been strengthened by my experiences. They have seen GOD show up for me and speak to me concerning the things that are happening now. I praise GOD because He is using that to draw them nearer to Himself as they see the path the earth is on, and their only hope is in the Living GOD!
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
4,372
1,823
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#46
It happened the first time in the woods. Then on the patio of a bike shop after dark. and the last time I was helping my husband and children clear some wood from an overgrown lot next door. Honestly, the last time I was grumbling in my heart about being out there and then it happened.

It being the second time I was bit by a copperhead made it very severe. I felt like I was leaving my body and my heart was beating so hard and fast I thought it was going to stop. My hands and feet were ice cold. I thought I was dying.

My husband and children came together, and my husband read that scripture and I declared I believe it, because I had been meditating on that scripture to keep from slipping away.

After we prayed, I opened my eyes and every symptom I had was gone! I was healed! I began calling all of my friends to tell them what GOD had done for me. Praise our Father for His Loving Kindness toward us!
I know how serious that could be. I taught a class on on the local varieties of venomous snakes, so people would be able to identify them and know what to do if they see them. Unfortunately, you couldn't even see them until it was too late. I'm glad you are OK and so many blessed by His healing kindness.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
4,372
1,823
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#47
I believe my older children have been strengthened by my experiences. They have seen GOD show up for me and speak to me concerning the things that are happening now. I praise GOD because He is using that to draw them nearer to Himself as they see the path the earth is on, and their only hope is in the Living GOD!
Absolutely!
That's a major ministry He has given to mothers. That's worth more than a million dollars.
 

Thusiserve

Active member
Nov 8, 2022
182
140
43
#48
It happened the first time in the woods. Then on the patio of a bike shop after dark. and the last time I was helping my husband and children clear some wood from an overgrown lot next door. Honestly, the last time I was grumbling in my heart about being out there and then it happened.

It being the second time I was bit by a copperhead made it very severe. I felt like I was leaving my body and my heart was beating so hard and fast I thought it was going to stop. My hands and feet were ice cold. I thought I was dying.

My husband and children came together, and my husband read that scripture and I declared I believe it, because I had been meditating on that scripture to keep from slipping away.

After we prayed, I opened my eyes and every symptom I had was gone! I was healed! I began calling all of my friends to tell them what GOD had done for me. Praise our Father for His Loving Kindness toward us!
Wow, that truly is amazing! I have seen videos of the harrowing healing process from copperhead bites. Sometimes it even takes months! I reached out to my local hospital to see how common bites are around here. We are almost infested with them. We bought some land 15 miles out of town 3 years ago, and I've already caught and transferred 6 of them, and my ex killed 7! Not counting the dozen or so i couldn't catch.
You truly are blessed!
 

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2022
628
359
63
#49
Wow, that truly is amazing! I have seen videos of the harrowing healing process from copperhead bites. Sometimes it even takes months! I reached out to my local hospital to see how common bites are around here. We are almost infested with them. We bought some land 15 miles out of town 3 years ago, and I've already caught and transferred 6 of them, and my ex killed 7! Not counting the dozen or so i couldn't catch.
You truly are blessed!
The LORD has been sooo good to me! Never has He failed me, I've not gotten everything I Want, but He has been more than sufficient for All I've needed. :)

You can use Hot Lime Pellets from Lowes to sprinkle around your home to keep them at bay, but you will have to reapply after a rain.
 

Thusiserve

Active member
Nov 8, 2022
182
140
43
#50
The LORD has been sooo good to me! Never has He failed me, I've not gotten everything I Want, but He has been more than sufficient for All I've needed. :)

You can use Hot Lime Pellets from Lowes to sprinkle around your home to keep them at bay, but you will have to reapply after a rain.
Thank you for that.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
5,183
2,101
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#51
Majority text doesn't mean that is the correct translation. Typically you try to get as close to the time of the originals.
Older doesn't necessarily mean closer to the originals. That's a fallacy and doesn't hold up to sound logic.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,734
511
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#53
Do you believe we should drink poison?
Maybe try looking at the Scripture in the spirit in which it was written in conjunction with the episode of the snake biting Paul on the island of Malta. Mark 16v18, Acts 28v3-6.

As regards, "if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them," the apostle WFP Burton, when he was in the Congo, the witch doctors tried to kill him on different occasions by poisoning the water, which he, not knowing it was poisoned, drank, however, it had no effect on him. The witch doctors who tried to kill him, confessed to him these details after their conversions, you can read about this in his books.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
3,659
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Texas
#54
I tend to think that when Jesus said that his followers would do greater works than "these", that he meant that we would preach the gospel and people would believe without having to do great signs and wonders. That is a great miracle, that people would be cut through the heart and believe by the simple gospel.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
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#55
I tend to think that when Jesus said that his followers would do greater works than "these", that he meant that we would preach the gospel and people would believe without having to do great signs and wonders.
Scripture is interpreted by scripture. Several places in the NT show the church doing greater works, proving Jesus' words to be completely true. Miracles & healings, as well as commands to do so, are all through the NT.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#56
I tend to think that when Jesus said that his followers would do greater works than "these", that he meant that we would preach the gospel and people would believe without having to do great signs and wonders. That is a great miracle, that people would be cut through the heart and believe by the simple gospel.
Greater works might have meant in number also. Jesus could only be in one place at a time. After Pentecost, the Spirit being poured out, could be working in many places at once.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,512
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#57
Older doesn't necessarily mean closer to the originals. That's a fallacy and doesn't hold up to sound logic.
Key word: necessarily

It is the most sought out source though.

Of course, it still must pass textual criticism.

The logic is sound when if you have letters in formation during the first century then they are typically viewed as being more authentic that letters in the 600s A.D.

I'm not saying it is always the case but just the preferred method.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#58
Scripture is interpreted by scripture. Several places in the NT show the church doing greater works, proving Jesus' words to be completely true. Miracles & healings, as well as commands to do so, are all through the NT.
But the question is, are the miracles required in order for the Word to be authoritative? Must you raise the dead or drink poison and live while preaching the Word of God for the Words to be effective?
 

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2022
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#59
But the question is, are the miracles required in order for the Word to be authoritative? Must you raise the dead or drink poison and live while preaching the Word of God for the Words to be effective?
Not required, but sometimes accompanied.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#60
The "oldest and best claim" is but a claim by a man with questionable motives, Tischendorf. It's been repeated by those who publish the versions based on the Sinaiticus. You are welcome to use those and take a pair of scissors to that page in Mark, but I don't buy his story. The pages were reported by witnesses as " snow white vellum." That's surprising considering oxidation over the period of time that Tischendorf claimed. One of the times Tischendorf took them, the ones he had came back yellowed as if painted with tea.

One of the oldest Bibles in my library was in the best condition. It was the Living Bible.
I say was, because it was not worth my time reading and was just taking up space. Right now, I'm going through my previous KJV and transferring the special answers to prayer and notations that the Holy Spirit led me to or brought to remembrance. For instance, I prayed for a wife and children who would grow to love the Lord and praise Him in songs with me. Right afterwards, I opened my KJV Bible exactly to Ecclesiastes 9:9 and He brought my eyes to the phrase, "Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest."
I don't know who she is yet, but I accept that as a direct answer from the Lord. As much as my former pastor, who had good intentions, and all of the commentators did what they could to shake my faith, I continue to trust God's Word in my English translation.
I'm transferring those answers to prayer to the margins of my latest Bible because the other one, previously newest, is worn out.
When I spoke of oldest I was referring to manuscripts and not Bible translations. I believe the newer translations are more accurate due to technology and textual criticism that now looks at most of the known manuscripts from each different family or periods of time. Where as for instance the KJV by majority pulled most of its text from the Byzantine family of manuscripts which are centuries removed from the originals.