Simple Question...No Simple Answer

[Bride]

I hear what you say. you said one is saved by faith alone then does good works.

I am asking you what if one who has faith but does NOT do good works can then his faith alone save him?

I have to ask here, how could some person NOT do good works, since "being obedient to the faith" is the primary work?

The only "work" that I know that is required is obedience to the faith. It entirely encaupulates and renders moot all the subset different things it say. Arguing each side of the same coin is fruitless. We have so much actual wisdom of God to share, let's get off this worthless topic

 

[posthuman]

wow i almost forgot who the Father has appointed to judge all men. . .

 

[SeaBass]

wow i almost forgot who the Father has appointed to judge all men. . .

Not willing to answer a simple question?

 

[SeaBass]

I have to ask here, how could some person NOT do good works, since "being obedient to the faith" is the primary work?

The only "work" that I know that is required is obedience to the faith. It entirely encaupulates and renders moot all the subset different things it say. Arguing each side of the same coin is fruitless. We have so much actual wisdom of God to share, let's get off this worthless topic

So evidently you are not a follower of the man-made teaching of 'faith only'.

How can it be a worthless topic when millions if not billions of souls will be lost over it?

 

[posthuman]

Not willing to answer a simple question?

If they say, “Come with us, let us lie in wait for blood;
let us ambush the innocent without reason
. . .
my son, do not walk in the way with them;
hold back your foot from their paths

(Proverbs 1:11 & 16)

i think i'm done looking for ways to condemn my brothers and sisters.
there is enough tearing down and not enough building up, IMHO

 

[SeaBass]

If they say, “Come with us, let us lie in wait for blood;
let us ambush the innocent without reason
. . .
my son, do not walk in the way with them;
hold back your foot from their paths

(Proverbs 1:11 & 16)

i think i'm done looking for ways to condemn my brothers and sisters.
there is enough tearing down and not enough building up, IMHO

Still not willing to answer a simple question?

 

[kennethcadwell]

I have to ask here, how could some person NOT do good works, since "being obedient to the faith" is the primary work?

The only "work" that I know that is required is obedience to the faith. It entirely encaupulates and renders moot all the subset different things it say. Arguing each side of the same coin is fruitless. We have so much actual wisdom of God to share, let's get off this worthless topic

The issue I and others point out is there is a big issue going on in the church where some branches are teaching that repentance, baptism, and confession are not needed. They even go further and say that people can live however they want no matter how bad. As long as they believe Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior that is enough.
This is a dangerous and false teaching to fall to.

Until one repents of their sins, they are still not saved.

 

[Bride]

So evidently you are not a follower of the man-made teaching of 'faith only'.

How can it be a worthless topic when millions if not billions of souls will be lost over it?

Because those souls aren't lost over doctrine. They are lost over being spiritual slobs who have nothing to show for their "faith". They are in the hands of the Great Judge. They whoever they are, each knows whether he is responding to their Lord or not. I just don't see where we would want to legislate their worthlessness. They aren't going to adjust to God's call, they certainly aren't going to adjust their behavior to a man's insistence... that's just the way I see it.
When we go out and preach the gosepel, we are sowing what becomes "faith" to some people. But most just gets pecked off the hard path by the birds. Who cares about them and in what order they violated faith/works/works/faith? It sure won't matter to the Judge. Why should it matter to us?
That's all I'm saying.
No souls are lost over the "topic" except, I believe, the ones that are arguing it.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Because those souls aren't lost over doctrine. They are lost over being spiritual slobs who have nothing to show for their "faith". They are in the hands of the Great Judge. They whoever they are, each knows whether he is responding to their Lord or not. I just don't see where we would want to legislate their worthlessness. They aren't going to adjust to God's call, they certainly aren't going to adjust their behavior to a man's insistence... that's just the way I see it.
When we go out and preach the gosepel, we are sowing what becomes "faith" to some people. But most just gets pecked off the hard path by the birds. Who cares about them and in what order they violated faith/works/works/faith? It sure won't matter to the Judge. Why should it matter to us?
That's all I'm saying.
No souls are lost over the "topic" except, I believe, the ones that are arguing it.

Because it does matter to our Lord.
He says to stay firm among other believers that need no repentance, instead of going out to the sinners that do need to be brought to repentance and minister to them is not doing His will.
We are called to go help other sinners come to repentance, not to stand back and do nothing but let them die in their sins.

 

[maxwel]

Those that follow the man-made teaching of FAITH ONLY have said many times a saving faith WILL produce works.



Simple question:

If a man has faith but his faith produces NO works, will his FAITH ONLY save him anyway?


No simple answer:

If the faith only advocate answers "no" then he is refuting his own belief that FAITH ONLY saves.

If the faith only advocate answers "yes" then he is refuting his own statement that a saving faith WILL produce works and conflicting Eph 2:10 that says the Christian must do good works.



[It also conflicts Lk 13:3,5 that one must repent to be saved, Mt 10:32,33 and Rom 10:9,10 one must confess to be saved and Mk 16:16 and Acts 2:38 one must be baptized...will FAITH ONLY save one that will not repent, will not confess Christ and who is lost in his unforgiven sins anyway?]

I really don't know why we argue about this issue all the time.

Seabass,

If you believe you get into heaven by doing good works,
then go right ahead...
work your way to heaven.

No one is stopping you.

Why all the fuss?

 

[Angelmommie]

This verse, Eph 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

It's not possible to be a Chrisitan and NOT do good works.
So does the man-made teaching of faith only over-ride Eph 2:10?

I do not think anything "man-made" should override anything written in the bible..do you? wait..what is the man-made teaching of faith again? I need to quit going back and forth between discussions..i am getting confused!lol (sorry)

 

[gb9]

I am really starting to believe that some folks come on here and just try to argue. I am not speaking of trolls, I mean " reagulars". you are correct. why all the fuss?? if you are not going to dialogue, just argue, why should anyone respond??

 

[oldhermit]

Those that follow the man-made teaching of FAITH ONLY have said many times a saving faith WILL produce works.


Simple question:

If a man has faith but his faith produces NO works, will his FAITH ONLY save him anyway?

NO. James 2:20
"faith apart from works is useless." ESV
"faith without works is dead." KJV
"faith without actions is worthless." ISV
"faith apart from works is barren." ASV

 

[blue_ladybug]

NO. James 2:20
"faith apart from works is useless." ESV
"faith without works is dead." KJV
"faith without actions is worthless." ISV
"faith apart from works is barren." ASV

​It doesn't get much more plainer than this now, does it? lol Without faith, we are useless, dead, worthless and barren.

 

[Angela53510]

We are justified ONLY by Grace, through faith. stop adding to the Word of God. No works will ever justify us in the eyes of God! Only faith in the sacrifice of Christ on the cross.

"For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." Romans 3:28

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, wehave peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.2 Through him we have also obtained access by faithinto this grace in which we stand, and werejoicein hope of the glory of God." Romans 5:1-2

Once we are saved by a sovereign act of God, we are filled with peace. That means we WANT to serve God. It means we look for opportunities to share the gospel and to serve others and God. It means we humble our hearts and confess our sins daily.

Not works at all. But rather the effects or consequences of so great a salvation!

So now that I have definitively answered you that we are NOT saved by our works, will you kindly tell the BDF which cult you belong to?

 

[kennethcadwell]

I really don't know why we argue about this issue all the time.

Seabass,

If you believe you get into heaven by doing good works,
then go right ahead...
work your way to heaven.

No one is stopping you.

Why all the fuss?

There is no need to argue about this, but to debate issue's that do have to do with salvation is supported by the bible.
The only requirement the bible gives not to debate on is useless, not important issues.
Salvation is an important issue.

Faith only believers teach this is enough for salvation.
One can have faith, but if they do as the Lord commanded then it is a dead faith that does not lead to salvation.
Like I said before it somebody says they have faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and do not repent of their sins they are not saved.
There are some churches that don't teach their congregation that they need to repent, they live this crucial part out of ones walk. Teaching them a dead faith salvation.

Lord Jesus over and over again tells us what things a true believer in Him will do.
He says those who don't obey and keep His commandments are not His, and the truth is not in them.

 

[Bride]

NO. James 2:20
"faith apart from works is useless." ESV
"faith without works is dead." KJV
"faith without actions is worthless." ISV
"faith apart from works is barren." ASV

Of course. A person like this, in the analogy of Jesus as the vine, This "branch" would appear dry and yellow and withered without fruit and would be cut off by the Husbandman. Just like a non-believing Jew. Chop. Burn. crackle crackle... Seems pretty simple, I think we all know this. I still don't get where there is a conflict about this.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Of course. A person like this, in the analogy of Jesus as the vine, This "branch" would appear dry and yellow and withered without fruit and would be cut off by the Husbandman. Just like a non-believing Jew. Chop. Burn. crackle crackle... Seems pretty simple, I think we all know this. I still don't get where there is a conflict about this.

The conflict is that some by there stance change;

Faith without works is dead, to Faith without works still has salvation.

 

[Bride]

Because it does matter to our Lord.
He says to stay firm among other believers that need no repentance, instead of going out to the sinners that do need to be brought to repentance and minister to them is not doing His will.
We are called to go help other sinners come to repentance, not to stand back and do nothing but let them die in their sins.

Not that I disagree, but that is an entirely different subject. In fact, Of Course we are to be preaching repentance and the forgiveness of sins. Which is exactly what I said you should be doing instead of arguing about faith/works. Let's stay pinpoint on the topic.

What I said is GOD'S VIEW that folk here should think about. Not reply with a dismissive an opinion. Preach the Gospel. Not argue about faith/works. That is GOD'S WORD

There is NO SUCH GOSPEL as arguing amongst the members about faith works and God did not sanction such silly arguing.

(Heb 6:1)
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
(Heb 6:2)

Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.





(Rom 16:17)
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.




(Rom 16:18)
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

[Markum1972]

Those that follow the man-made teaching of FAITH ONLY have said many times a saving faith WILL produce works.



Simple question:

If a man has faith but his faith produces NO works, will his FAITH ONLY save him anyway?


No simple answer:

If the faith only advocate answers "no" then he is refuting his own belief that FAITH ONLY saves.

If the faith only advocate answers "yes" then he is refuting his own statement that a saving faith WILL produce works and conflicting Eph 2:10 that says the Christian must do good works.



[It also conflicts Lk 13:3,5 that one must repent to be saved, Mt 10:32,33 and Rom 10:9,10 one must confess to be saved and Mk 16:16 and Acts 2:38 one must be baptized...will FAITH ONLY save one that will not repent, will not confess Christ and who is lost in his unforgiven sins anyway?]

If Abraham would have heard what God said but not done it, would he still have been accounted as having faith?

How can we separate faith from works?

Let's say I told you that in 3 days the earth's gravity was going to reverse for about 1 minute and I told you the precise time it would happen. Let's also say I presented enough evidence that you claimed to believe me. Yet when that time came you were walking about in the streets. Did you REALLY believe me? Or did you just CLAIM to believe me?

Obviously you did not believe. If you had, then you would have acted on it.

So if we are to say that we believe but don't need to act on what we "claim" to believe, aren't we making ourselves out to be liars?

How many here would not agree that if a man wants to eat, he needs to work? So then do we just need to believe that statement, not go to work, and expect we will receive the same as those that do? Obviously if we do that, then we do not truly believe what that statement says.

Likewise if you TRULY believe what God has said, then it WILL change your behavior. So you see, faith without works is dead.