Sinners?

[PeterJens]

What most see in Christ is the promise of holiness and purity, finding our hunger and thirst
for righteousness fulfilled.

More recently I have seen our chore heart defence is our problem, mine very much as well.
So many fall away from the Lord through disappointment in others, not realising this is the point
of real forgiveness and bearing one anothers burdens. Christ bore my sin and the hurts I inflicted
on Him and He still loved me and forgave me, so should we our fellow brothers and sisters.

It is this love and forgiveness which is Christs gift to us. Years ago I thought turning the other cheek
meant accepting the insults and hurts and saying nothing. Then I thought it meant one could be
assertive explaining the hurts, now I see it is accepting the pain and receiving healing from Christ.
It is a privilege to bear sufferings in His name and let His love overflow to those around.

We defend our hearts like this is what it is all about, when it is all about learning to love despite
the pain and failure. And in His kingdom the pain will not be their and love will abound, Halleluyah.

 

[BillG]

You belong to the group that understands that all are sinners and there is none righteous no, not one.....See, there are a few here who claim to be sinless or more righteous than Jesus, they always do what is right, keep themselves saved and like the Pharisee of old...look down on us who admit we need Jesus because we occasionally fail<----which means we believe we can live like the devil and sin non stop because we believe in GRACE and MERCY....

Is you and me on the same sheet?

To me there is only one who is righteous and that's Jesus.
Its his righteousness that covers me and I just want to be like Jesus.
When I'm not I hold my hands up and say "I got it wrong" When I walk in a way that I don't want to I hold my hands up and say "I don't want to walk in this way please help me"

Grace and Mercy found me oh the love of Jesus is greater.

I fix my eyes upon the crossReaching out with all I've gotI'm letting go to start again





I need your love that's why I'm hereWaiting outside my life it callsSo while I'm here I'll give my allYou are my peace within the stormHere at the cross I find my homeYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater than it allYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater than it allThan it allGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus, is greaterGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus, is greaterI fix my eyes upon the crossReaching out with all I've gotI'm letting go to start againI need your love that's why I'm hereWaiting outside my life it callsSo while I'm here I'll give my allYou are my peace within the stormHere at the cross I find my homeYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater, than it allYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater, than it allGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus is greaterGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus is greater

I have nothing to offer other than all I've got to offer.

 

[PeterJens]

I get all that.
I didn't suggest "take it easy".
what I said was attach the gospel to your law.

do you understand?

Sorry, not quite. I am not trying to preach law, I am trying to preach
what does it mean to love without damaging oneself and others.

 

[PeterJens]

Is you and me on the same sheet?

To me there is only one who is righteous and that's Jesus.
Its his righteousness that covers me and I just want to be like Jesus.
When I'm not I hold my hands up and say "I got it wrong" When I walk in a way that I don't want to I hold my hands up and say "I don't want to walk in this way please help me"

Grace and Mercy found me oh the love of Jesus is greater.

I fix my eyes upon the crossReaching out with all I've gotI'm letting go to start again





I need your love that's why I'm hereWaiting outside my life it callsSo while I'm here I'll give my allYou are my peace within the stormHere at the cross I find my homeYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater than it allYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater than it allThan it allGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus, is greaterGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus, is greaterI fix my eyes upon the crossReaching out with all I've gotI'm letting go to start againI need your love that's why I'm hereWaiting outside my life it callsSo while I'm here I'll give my allYou are my peace within the stormHere at the cross I find my homeYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater, than it allYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater, than it allGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus is greaterGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus is greater

I have nothing to offer other than all I've got to offer.

I would say this is my approach.
All I have is His and all I am doing is following His way in His grace and truth.

 

[BillG]

Sorry my above post for the below wasn't really intelligible. Here it is (hopefully)

I fix my eyes upon the cross
Reaching out with all I've got
I'm letting go to start again


I need your love that's why I'm here
Waiting outside my life it calls
So while I'm here I'll give my all
You are my peace within the storm
Here at the cross I find my home


You are greater, Jesus, You are greater than it all
You are greater, Jesus, You are greater than it all
Than it all
Grace and Mercy found me
Oh, the blood of Jesus, is greater
Grace and Mercy found me
Oh, the blood of Jesus, is greater


I fix my eyes upon the cross
Reaching out with all I've got
I'm letting go to start again
I need your love that's why I'm here
Waiting outside my life it calls
So while I'm here I'll give my all
You are my peace within the storm
Here at the cross I find my home


You are greater, Jesus, You are greater, than it all
You are greater, Jesus, You are greater, than it all
Grace and Mercy found me
Oh, the blood of Jesus is greater
Grace and Mercy found me
Oh, the blood of Jesus is greater

 

[PeterJens]

In a simple way, for me to meet Jesus is to meet someone who trascends our
state, and we are in awe of Him. His insights and knowledge go beyond the prison
in which we find ourselves.

I scratch the surface and realise He has gone before, and it is me who lives in
darkness, deceived into believing I have some light, when it is just the reflected
glow of what His love has done for others. So I bow in humble adoration at the cross
and at the throne of grace, that I a sinner may be called to ascend to meet the Lord
of all creation and be called a son, when I know nothing and am worthy only of being
forgotton and abandoned.

And in my brothers, Peter and Paul I recognise His work, taking our attempts at
responding to Him and showing us, it is His work in our hearts that makes it all work.

And what I see is friends who know this in their lives too, and I want to embrace
them and encourage them. And the more I desire, the more Jesus opens up to me,
what grace the King bestows on us, worthy is the Lamb who was slain, Amen.

 

[BillG]

You belong to the group that understands that all are sinners and there is none righteous no, not one.....See, there are a few here who claim to be sinless or more righteous than Jesus, they always do what is right, keep themselves saved and like the Pharisee of old...look down on us who admit we need Jesus because we occasionally fail<----which means we believe we can live like the devil and sin non stop because we believe in GRACE and MERCY....

Its quite sad really.

You/I belong to this group, I/you belong to this group. And vice versa.

Not surprising really to see a divided church is it?

Oh how that just breaks Jesus heart.

Makes me very sad indeed.

Just so you all know I want to be like Jesus to you all. Can I encourage you all to do the same. In love, word and deed.
To all on this site and all those outside of this site where God has placed you and all those he has placed in your life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can you just clarify what you think the group is that I belong to.
Maybe then I can understand the rest of your post and what you are trying to say and if it applies to me.

well first you have to understand peters problem.

He continues to slander and say that we say obedience of any kind is legalism, and he is wrong.

We say obedience as a means of salvation is legalism.. See how just a few words change things?

until he learns to repent of this slander against us, He will never understand what we believe.

 

[dcontroversal]

Is you and me on the same sheet?

To me there is only one who is righteous and that's Jesus.
Its his righteousness that covers me and I just want to be like Jesus.
When I'm not I hold my hands up and say "I got it wrong" When I walk in a way that I don't want to I hold my hands up and say "I don't want to walk in this way please help me"

Grace and Mercy found me oh the love of Jesus is greater.

I fix my eyes upon the crossReaching out with all I've gotI'm letting go to start again





I need your love that's why I'm hereWaiting outside my life it callsSo while I'm here I'll give my allYou are my peace within the stormHere at the cross I find my homeYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater than it allYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater than it allThan it allGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus, is greaterGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus, is greaterI fix my eyes upon the crossReaching out with all I've gotI'm letting go to start againI need your love that's why I'm hereWaiting outside my life it callsSo while I'm here I'll give my allYou are my peace within the stormHere at the cross I find my homeYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater, than it allYou are greater, Jesus, You are greater, than it allGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus is greaterGrace and Mercy found meOh, the blood of Jesus is greater

I have nothing to offer other than all I've got to offer.

Yes indeed.....you and I are on the same page bro......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Its quite sad really.

You/I belong to this group, I/you belong to this group. And vice versa.

Not surprising really to see a divided church is it?

Oh how that just breaks Jesus heart.

Makes me very sad indeed.

Just so you all know I want to be like Jesus to you all. Can I encourage you all to do the same. In love, word and deed.
To all on this site and all those outside of this site where God has placed you and all those he has placed in your life.

yes it is sad.

It means that any chance of true discussion is out of the question, and any open mind is closed.. it is defend yourself at all cost. Which if you read certain people's comments, that is exactly what they do.

 

[Grace777x70]

well first you have to understand peters problem.

He continues to slander and say that we say obedience of any kind is legalism, and he is wrong.

We say obedience as a means of salvation is legalism.. See how just a few words change things?

until he learns to repent of this slander against us, He will never understand what we believe.

Some people "see" something else then what is really being said - even after you tell them over 50x times the same thing. They then proceed to insult and slander others based on what they made up in their own minds as being true.

And sometimes we can just disagree too but we don't need to abuse others and insult them because of it.

Someone says:

" What a beautiful blue sky the Lord gave us."

They respond back:

"What? The sky is not green - everyone knows the sky is blue. - you are a heretic, false teacher, delusional, demonic, satanic, a lover of sinning, you love to not be obedient to Jesus, you are against the word of God...etc"

It is useless to have any sort of interaction with these types until there is repentance.

They don't have to agree with everything someone says but at the very least not be deceitful and speak what they are really saying and stop calling people names and insulting them.

It seems that "some" who say we are to walk righteously and in love are the very ones that insult, slander and mis-represent what others are saying. In reality these are no different then those works of the flesh where people are living in a homosexual lifestyle.

 

[BillG]

well first you have to understand peters problem.

He continues to slander and say that we say obedience of any kind is legalism, and he is wrong.

We say obedience as a means of salvation is legalism.. See how just a few words change things?

until he learns to repent of this slander against us, He will never understand what we believe.

Slander

[FONT=noto_serif_devanagari]1[/FONT][COLOR=#2A2A2A !important][FONT=noto_serif_devanagari]The action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.
Make false and damaging statements about (someone)

Sorry if I am wrong but you two seem to have issues with each other.

You say he is wrong and he says the same.

Given that are both of you slanderous?

Love you both


[/FONT][/COLOR]

 

[FreeNChrist]

Some people "see" something else then what is really being said - even after you tell them over 50x times the same thing. They then proceed to insult and slander others based on what they made up in their own minds as being true.

And sometimes we can just disagree too but we don't need to abuse others and insult them because of it.

Someone says:

" What a beautiful blue sky the Lord gave us."

They respond back:

"What? The sky is not green - everyone knows the sky is blue. - you are a heretic, false teacher, delusional, demonic, satanic, a lover of sinning, you love to not be obedient to Jesus, you are against the word of God...etc"

It is useless to have any sort of interaction with these types until there is repentance.

They don't have to agree with everything someone says but at the very least not be deceitful and speak what they are really saying and stop calling people names and insulting them.

It seems that "some" who say we are to walk righteously and in love are the very ones that insult, slander and mis-represent what others are saying. In reality these are no different then those works of the flesh where people are living in a homosexual lifestyle.

I think they know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it. At least Stephen doesn't try to cloak it in sweet sounding nothings and pass it off as love, even as they stick the knife in your back and give it a twist.

 

[mj007]

The one thing you do not need to defend against but have an opportunity to embrace is when someone speaks with loving intent for you. I mean if someone is lost in sin, or speaking heretically (which is often judged subjectively), or someone is inviting the correcting side of you, you can instead speak with love and kindness. Often in argument and debate, I see two sides pushing each other further away, but we should be drawing closer. If God is in charge, and you believe in what you say with good faith and a sincere heart, and you believe someone is misguided and will therefore not feel the grace that you feel underneath what they are saying, then invite them in and maybe they will listen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some people "see" something else then what is really being said - even after you tell them over 50x times the same thing. They then proceed to insult and slander others based on what they made up in their own minds as being true.

And sometimes we can just disagree too but we don't need to abuse others and insult them because of it.

Someone says:

" What a beautiful blue sky the Lord gave us."

They respond back:

"What? The sky is not green - everyone knows the sky is blue. - you are a heretic, false teacher, delusional, demonic, satanic, a lover of sinning, you love to not be obedient to Jesus, you are against the word of God...etc"

It is useless to have any sort of interaction with these types until there is repentance.

They don't have to agree with everything someone says but at the very least not be deceitful and speak what they are really saying and stop calling people names and insulting them.

It seems that "some" who say we are to walk righteously and in love are the very ones that insult, slander and mis-represent what others are saying. In reality these are no different then those works of the flesh where people are living in a homosexual lifestyle.

its ok to disagree,, and even say, you will never agree.

It is another to lie and slander others to get your point across.

the "we love sin" slander is just the tip of the iceburg

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Slander

[FONT=noto_serif_devanagari]1[/FONT][COLOR=#2A2A2A !important][FONT=noto_serif_devanagari]The action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.
Make false and damaging statements about (someone)

Sorry if I am wrong but you two seem to have issues with each other.

You say he is wrong and he says the same.

Given that are both of you slanderous?

Love you both


[/FONT]

I do not lie about his belief. that is the difference. If he or anyone corrects me, I confess I was wrong,

I say he is wrong about my belief, and he is, I think I know what I believe.. I also think he is wrong about his gospel. But will not judge him for it, and have even offered to agree to disagree..

 

[PeterJens]

I am guilty of following Jesus and His word. Praise the Lord.
I am guilty of saying the cross brings us victory over sin, heals our hearts and brings
love to rule our lives. And without the desire to own everything, to keep that which
I have to prove I am better than my neighbour, I can rejoice in the bounty God provides,
enjoy the time I have with others.

I have decided not to know what others think about their futures and how secure they
are because they know they will fall away but Jesus still keeps them safe.

It is irrelevant if I walk with Jesus daily and know His word, and love stays on the throne.
What is there left to drive me into sin, to take me captive or fear that I have to expunge,
or hurt that needs defending so I do not get hurt more.

Ofcourse if you know where you are and your selfish traits, and you need to put them straight
all the time, what are you trying to correct as if the failure is in not meeting the mark
rather than the failure is not becoming undefended and letting love rule.

I see no other way than the way of love and the cross. So God bless you all, and I
encourage you as you follow the narrow path and grow in His glorious grace, Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

Do hurts drive us or love in Christ?

I shared with a elderly lady about being open with how we felt and how important it
was. She had recently lost her husband and was sore. Like a hurt bear, she mauled
me. Ow, that hurt. I thought, I will not approach her again. But I was wrong. I needed
to listen and let let love flow between us, and share my pain and hurts as well.

It is good to know we hurt, because then we can ask for healing. Buried hurts are like
poison, they sap our life away, and by burying them we are saying they are more important
and dangerous than the power and life we have in Christ. But actually the opposite is true.
The life we have in Christ is the resurrection to victory.

Now a member on cc who I confess we had a running battle for months confessed they
had intended me real harm because they had got hurt. And truly I was sorry for this, because
I did not intend it. But I can but share what I know in Christ and what He has taught me. It is
not belief or theology, it is life and love to me.

Now if you come against this and His word, His word has preeminence and to Him I must bow
the knee. He is our King, and it hurts to admit when we are wrong, and I have been wrong too
many times, but still it hurts. But in the pain I know I have gained something and grown more
in His grace. There was a time if I did not feel rebuked by a sermon it was not a proper sermon.

So I am sorry if you feel hurt or neglected or miss-understood. Our security is in Christ and the
cross not what men think about us. So amen when people utter all kinds of false things about you
and find fault falsely for Jesus's name, for great will be your reward in the Kingdom.

And in the end after all the sharing, I have shared some of the best things I could ever share, so
thankyou for bringing me to this point, because unto God be the glory, forever, Amen.

 

[willybob]

Sorry, not quite. I am not trying to preach law, I am trying to preach
what does it mean to love without damaging oneself and others.

The law of the Spirit is very alive and is magnified much greater than the 10 commandments as the bar was raised much higher. As Paul said; faith/obedience establishes the law, thus is engrafted upon the heart to those who yield to the power of His influence."ie" the works of faith.....Because of the works of Christ Grace was also increased to those that yield to its power to live godly and righteously in the present world..Titus 2:11-14.... we all do works 24/7, no one can avoid it, its either the works of the Spirit or the works of the devil. None are exempt..

The law that was nailed to the cross was the ceremonial law and ordnances, dietary laws, civil laws...

 

[Grace777x70]

The ten commandments are called the ministry of condemnation.

The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul. We can trust the life of Christ in us to live godly in this world.

The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12

The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.

The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness." This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.

The 10 commandments was the only Law of Moses that was engraved on stones.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".

It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed life.