So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?
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Galatians chapter 2......and even in Ephesians.....we are saved, justified by the perfect faith OF Christ...the word of can be translated of or from and both indicate source.....the source of our faith is Christ which is the point being made.....I dont have my bible with me other wise I would cite sources in Romans, Galatians and Ephesians.....that is why we are secure in Christ as it is based upon his unaltering, ever present faith......
And to your other point....I agree Christ was sinless, yet became SIN for us and took our sin upon himself and even he had to DIE!
And to your other point....I agree Christ was sinless, yet became SIN for us and took our sin upon himself and even he had to DIE!
K
I already answered that by what the Lord said in Matthew 22:36-40 as He answers this question for us on how the law is fulfilled by Him. It is not by His crucifixion as He shows that by verse 40 that the law and prophets hangs on following the two greatest commandments to love Him and others.
You can not take Matthew 5:17 without the rest of His teaching from Matthew 22:36-40 that work together to give the full meaning. Apostle Paul also shows us this understanding from Romans 13:9-10 that love upholds and thus fulfills all the commandments given by God. Therefore because love does no harm and thus there is no worry of transgressing the commandments of God.
I never said the fulfillment wasn't through Christ, as what I actually said was that His crucifixion did not fulfill the law as some teach. Jesus clearly shows He fulfills the law by Him working by love in and through us !!!
Yet, nowhere do we see any of the apostles living a life of sin and or with the thinking they could get away with a particular sin all while being saved. Nowhere did they teach or live that you could sin and still be saved. A true faith is always as being defined as one living righteously and not in them being a slave to sin or their old ways. In other words, what you teach is foreign and non existent to Scripture. Even Galatians and Ephesians refutes your belief (See Galatians 5 and Ephesians 5). Those who commit certain types of sins will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
I asked the question so as to get others to think about what they say and believe. No, I do not believe a Christian is for lawlessness. But yet, that is the impression I get on some level when folks say they are not under the Law. They are making it sound like they can get away with certain sins because Christ died for that sin. I do not believe that. I believe a Christian establishes the Law. Not the Law of Moses in the Old Testament (Which has been fulfilled) but the Law of Christ under the New Testament. It's not that a Christian is justified by keeping the New Covenant Law of Christ in and of itself. They are justified or saved by Christ's work on the cross. For if they do sin, they get right with God (Christ) by confessing their sin to Christ (Who is our advocate and high priest). Then Christ can help us to forsake sin and then work within our heart and lives. I believe we are not saved by works. But the work of Christ (that He wants to do in us) will be evident in our lives if He truly lives within us. Hence, why Paul says we are to examine whether Christ be in us or not.
For Christ is the source of our salvation (1 John 5:12).
For Christ is the source of our salvation (1 John 5:12).
This is speaking of the Law of Moses. If you break one of the Law of Moses, you could face immediate death. This is not so in the New Covenant. But that does not mean there are no Laws in the New Covenant. That would be silly to suggest otherwise. Galatians 6:2 says there is a Law of Christ. Paul says we establish the Law. Sin is transgression of the Law. Paul says we are not to continue in sin. Paul says if we love we fulfill the law. So believers are not anarchists where they follow no Law. Even Paul said that what he said was to be considered as the Lord's Commandments (i.e.Laws). Yes, we are under grace.... meaning we are not immediately put to death for breaking a Law. We now can repent and turn to Christ and allow Him to work His righteousness or good works thru us. Grace does not mean one is lawless or without any kind of law whatseover. That would make one no better than a lawless unbeliever.
There is no book of Jason. That's a false accusation. I never created a book that adds to Scripture. I am quoting Scripture or God's Word. If you have a problem with anything I said in God's Word, then surely you would be able to respond using Scripture, right? Do you want to talk Bible or are you just interested in slinging mud?
Can you answer the question using your Bible?
Are Christians lawless because they are not under the Law?
What is your Biblical response to that type of question?
Can you answer such a question using the Bible?
Can you answer the question using your Bible?
Are Christians lawless because they are not under the Law?
What is your Biblical response to that type of question?
Can you answer such a question using the Bible?
Again, while this sounds all nice.... what you believe still allows one to get away with sin, though. You said yourself there is no penalty if you sin. This means one waters down sin and what it means to God. This means God regards sin differently. But if that were true, then why did God kill Ananais and Saphirra? What ever happened to the penalty of sin for them? So yeah, I am not buying what you believe. It is wrong because it promote immorality and not holiness. It undermines sin and says one can be lawless on some level (Because they are not under the Law). I am sorry. Breaking the Law or doing sin in your view is treating it like it is some kind of fluffly kitten. However, sin is serious to God even today. Most of the churches in Revelation had it wrong and not right.
This view is wilfully ignorant of the fact that there is a day of reckoning for the saved as well as the lost.....one of these days you will figure out that where sin abounds in my life as a believer the grace of God outbounds it and deals with it before the Father...the reson you cannot grasp this is because of your false theology of a works based salvation and the erronous view that you don't sin.....!
I suspect it may mean that to you, but it actually means we are in Christ Jesus who is the fullfillment of the law
That, is because His blood alone atones for our sins and there is absolutely nothing, nada, zip, zero, rien, big goose egg
(phew) and
that we can do to earn salvation
Does that mean we are free to continue to sin?
As Paul said, God forbid
But if we do sin, and we will, as John the beloved Apostle said,
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9
Get over it.
That, is because His blood alone atones for our sins and there is absolutely nothing, nada, zip, zero, rien, big goose egg
(phew) and
Does that mean we are free to continue to sin?
As Paul said, God forbid
But if we do sin, and we will, as John the beloved Apostle said,
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9
Get over it.
I believe a believer can cease from sin because that is what the Bible plainly teaches. My view is not in the fact that I may not faulter. But I know that if I continue to abide and remain in Christ, all things are possible (Meaning, with Christ, a believer can be perfect). So if one does stop from sinning (Which is spoken about in Scripture), then the Lord Jesus deserves the glory and not the person. Read 1 Peter 4:1. It says those who suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. The false prophets in 2 Peter 2 are defined as having eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin. So who am I going to believe? You? or the Bible? Well, I will choose the Bible, my friend.
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I am not under the Law of Moses. That is what Paul is talking about. I do not follow the Law of Moses. Nor do I seek to be justified or made right by the Law. Jesus makes me right with God if I were to sin. It is not in keeping a Law that will redeem me or save me. Keeping the Law of Christ under the New Testament is just the by-product of salvation. If one is a follower of Jesus Christ, then they will seek to obey His commandments. If not, then they do not really love Jesus. For Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments.
Many Christians today do not really love Jesus because they are lawless (or they do not seek to follow His commands). Most Christians are self serving and think they can sin and still be saved (Which is just evil and wrong). God is not going to let His people get with evil. God is not going to reward anyone with Heaven if they sin and do evil. People have to repent and turn to God (Christ).
Many Christians today do not really love Jesus because they are lawless (or they do not seek to follow His commands). Most Christians are self serving and think they can sin and still be saved (Which is just evil and wrong). God is not going to let His people get with evil. God is not going to reward anyone with Heaven if they sin and do evil. People have to repent and turn to God (Christ).
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The word perfect as applied unto the believer means complete and not perfect in the modern day usage of the word....Yes a man can keep from murdering, stealing, lying etc. in Christ but that does not mean they are without sin and or never sin...DANIEL has not one recorded sin in the scriptures yet CONFESSES his SINS and aligns himslef with the SINS of JUDAH and his people....JOHN states clearly that if we say we HAVE NO SIN (present tense) we ARE decieved and the TRUTH is not in US...your theology lacks the truth and denies what God has to say about sin in the believers life...the key is simple....a believer will not live in a continual lifestyle of sin...they will sin occasionally, will fail occasionally, will stumble occasionally and ONE sin makes one guilty of the WHOLE and brings condemnation to any man....hence the grace and mercy found in Chist by belief which equals ETERNAL justification, salvation and sanctification (positionally) in Christ...this is what you fail to grasp because of your distorted view.......!
Believe what you want and deny the truth as you always do.....the bible is clear..JOHN as an APOSTLE stated clearly and included himself when he said..IF WE say that WE have no sin the truth is not in US and WE are decieved.....PAUL also speaks to this and called himself the NUMBER ONE CHIEF SINNER among MEN (present tense) The truth is simple...you believe in a works, self based salvation that requires two things...
1. That you are self-sinless
2. That you keep the law
Both are condemned by the word of God and this you will find out albeit too late.......if you are lucky and maybe sincere when you actually acknowledge the truth of eternal security then you will make the proverbial gates of heaven......if not then your works based and self righteous based salvation lite message will do you no good!
1. That you are self-sinless
2. That you keep the law
Both are condemned by the word of God and this you will find out albeit too late.......if you are lucky and maybe sincere when you actually acknowledge the truth of eternal security then you will make the proverbial gates of heaven......if not then your works based and self righteous based salvation lite message will do you no good!
Well, again, 1 Peter 4:1 says we can cease from sin. Jesus tells us to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. So there is the comparison of perfection. So you can't change the word to what you would like it to be. The Bible already states what we are to be perfect like.
There is a difference between past sins and a present state of abiding in sin with the thinking one is saved. Daniel was not actively rebelling and sinning against God with the thinking he was saved. Big difference there.
No, actually, 1 John 1:8 describes the Antinomian or the OSAS proponent today who says they have no sin in Christ because He paid all their sin, past, present, and future. They believe they sin in the flesh, but in the spirit there is no sin because Christ took it away. Meaning, they are saying they have no sin. 1 John 1:8 was a warning to the brethren in regards to false believers who thought similar to the OSAS proponent today. Yet it was more extreme. They believed that they did not even sin in the flesh. The solution if one does sin, is....... what? 1 John 1:9. See, that is what I practice if I were to sin. I do not say to myself like the OSAS proponent that I do not need to confess of sin because it is forgiven already. I confess of my sin so as to be forgiven of sin as 1 John 1:9 states.
This may sound all nice, and it makes one appear to be good and righteous, but the deadly 7 beliefs in OSAS actually promote immorality and lawlessness and not holiness because there is no real lasting consequence in the afterlife for sinning.
Which is an unbiblical teaching. Jesus said we are to be perfect as the Father is perfect. 1 Peter 4:1 says we can cease from sin. Galatians 5:24 says those that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts, etc.
Actually, there is no such teaching in Scripture about being in Christ positionally for all time despite a believer sinning. Sin has always been separation for God for both the believer and the unbeliever. For Adam and Eve fell because of sin.
There is a difference between past sins and a present state of abiding in sin with the thinking one is saved. Daniel was not actively rebelling and sinning against God with the thinking he was saved. Big difference there.
No, actually, 1 John 1:8 describes the Antinomian or the OSAS proponent today who says they have no sin in Christ because He paid all their sin, past, present, and future. They believe they sin in the flesh, but in the spirit there is no sin because Christ took it away. Meaning, they are saying they have no sin. 1 John 1:8 was a warning to the brethren in regards to false believers who thought similar to the OSAS proponent today. Yet it was more extreme. They believed that they did not even sin in the flesh. The solution if one does sin, is....... what? 1 John 1:9. See, that is what I practice if I were to sin. I do not say to myself like the OSAS proponent that I do not need to confess of sin because it is forgiven already. I confess of my sin so as to be forgiven of sin as 1 John 1:9 states.
This may sound all nice, and it makes one appear to be good and righteous, but the deadly 7 beliefs in OSAS actually promote immorality and lawlessness and not holiness because there is no real lasting consequence in the afterlife for sinning.
Which is an unbiblical teaching. Jesus said we are to be perfect as the Father is perfect. 1 Peter 4:1 says we can cease from sin. Galatians 5:24 says those that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts, etc.
Actually, there is no such teaching in Scripture about being in Christ positionally for all time despite a believer sinning. Sin has always been separation for God for both the believer and the unbeliever. For Adam and Eve fell because of sin.
I do not claim that I have never sinned. I am claiming that it is possible to stop sinning because the Word of God teaches it and because I have experienced it for myself. That does not mean I have not sinned in the past (i.e. that I am sinless). Actually the OSAS proponent is claiming they are sinless because they believe all past, present, and future sin is forgiven them.
Also, you yourself believe in keeping certain laws of God. You do not believe an axe murderer, or a sodomite can be a true Christian. Can a believer do these things every once and a while and it will be okay as long as they do not do it all the time? That is what you are saying. That a believer will only occasionally sin (Which makes it okay). No. God does not want us to be a slave to sin. Christ wants to set all hIs people free from sin and He wants them to be slaves to righteousness instead. But you do not want to be a slave to righteousness, though? (See Romans 6). You would rather believe we can sin on occasion. But that is not a Biblical teaching, though.
Also, you yourself believe in keeping certain laws of God. You do not believe an axe murderer, or a sodomite can be a true Christian. Can a believer do these things every once and a while and it will be okay as long as they do not do it all the time? That is what you are saying. That a believer will only occasionally sin (Which makes it okay). No. God does not want us to be a slave to sin. Christ wants to set all hIs people free from sin and He wants them to be slaves to righteousness instead. But you do not want to be a slave to righteousness, though? (See Romans 6). You would rather believe we can sin on occasion. But that is not a Biblical teaching, though.
Well this just proves even further that you are blind to truth.....Daniel was CONFESSING HIS SINS which means he had COMMITTED SINS...and the bible clearly states that some men's sins are obvious before hand and some men's sins are revealed later so your point about Danie is moot and rejects the truth which is what you are well known for on this site...
Your view of what John writes is also flawed as the language is clear...your salvation lite/works based/self righteous gospel will not allow you to see the truth of what is written....
Your 7 deadly statement about OSAS and what it promotes is a lie at best and definitly a farce...another made up theology from the book of Jason which bears no weight and refer to point two above and why you have to make up lies and false teachings and or attribute things which are false....
Your point about Christ is also a farce at best as Jesus must be stupid to have his men write about confessing sins if we never sin after salvation so another moot point from the salvation lite doctrine....
And I suggest you read Hebrews..especially chapter 10 and where it states clearly that he has PERFECTED forever those who are SANCTIFIED in CHRIST....dude...your blindness and rejection goee beyond belief and destription!