So what about the fourth commandment?
- Thread starter disciplemike
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T
The question is not about the definition of holy.
The question is about what Scripture means.
In Rom 12:1 Paul beseeches us: I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
I asked you what this meant.
Specifically, on what day or days this Scripture did not hold.
The only answer that could possibly apply is that this command or exhortation is true for every day of the week.
There are no exceptions.
Also, it may surprise you to know that, almost without exception, the word "holy" in the New Testament is used to qualify people.
Not days and not objects.
Rom 12:1 is an excellent summary of worship before God.
It is not valid on some days and invalid on others.
Now for some bigger picture things:
The Law in any way, shape, or form is not the final arbitrator that defines the behaviour of Christians.
The Law , in the nature of the Law, can only inform us of our transgressions.
It can only function as a minimum standard of what a transgression is.
Jesus Himself points this out in the Sermon on the Mount where he uses the examples of murder and lust to point out the real meaning of what these things mean. Up to that point everyone interpreted the Law to mean murder = killing someone; and adultery = sleeping with someone of the opposite sex when married. Jesus rapidly sets out the real meaning of those commandments for His audience.
The problem is that the Law cannot deal with the thoughts of the mind. How can the Law know whether I wish someone dead or lust after some woman.
Paul call the Law a tutor - it teaches us, to a degree what sin is. But as comprehensive as it is, it cannot convict anyone, on earth, based on our thoughts.
Paul also makes it absolutely and unequivocally clear that the Law, and observance of the Law cannot save.
All it can do is convict.
The Law, including the commandments given to Moses, are just weak types of what, as believers in Christ, we are called to.
Believers in Christ are not called to minimum observance of any code of law.
Instead we are called to maximum love of God.
With respect to the 4th commandment, in particular, we are not merely called to give one day per week to God but rather everything and everyday - just as is spelt out in Rom 12:1.
The question is about what Scripture means.
In Rom 12:1 Paul beseeches us: I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
I asked you what this meant.
Specifically, on what day or days this Scripture did not hold.
The only answer that could possibly apply is that this command or exhortation is true for every day of the week.
There are no exceptions.
Also, it may surprise you to know that, almost without exception, the word "holy" in the New Testament is used to qualify people.
Not days and not objects.
Rom 12:1 is an excellent summary of worship before God.
It is not valid on some days and invalid on others.
Now for some bigger picture things:
The Law in any way, shape, or form is not the final arbitrator that defines the behaviour of Christians.
The Law , in the nature of the Law, can only inform us of our transgressions.
It can only function as a minimum standard of what a transgression is.
Jesus Himself points this out in the Sermon on the Mount where he uses the examples of murder and lust to point out the real meaning of what these things mean. Up to that point everyone interpreted the Law to mean murder = killing someone; and adultery = sleeping with someone of the opposite sex when married. Jesus rapidly sets out the real meaning of those commandments for His audience.
The problem is that the Law cannot deal with the thoughts of the mind. How can the Law know whether I wish someone dead or lust after some woman.
Paul call the Law a tutor - it teaches us, to a degree what sin is. But as comprehensive as it is, it cannot convict anyone, on earth, based on our thoughts.
Paul also makes it absolutely and unequivocally clear that the Law, and observance of the Law cannot save.
All it can do is convict.
The Law, including the commandments given to Moses, are just weak types of what, as believers in Christ, we are called to.
Believers in Christ are not called to minimum observance of any code of law.
Instead we are called to maximum love of God.
With respect to the 4th commandment, in particular, we are not merely called to give one day per week to God but rather everything and everyday - just as is spelt out in Rom 12:1.
Ok, so the word comes from the flesh of man, then the gift of tongues of the ability to communicate using the word is not a gift of the Holy Ghost which was given to man (male and female) that was made in LORD's likeness and image (Spirit and Word), a living soul.
However, the word does not come from voice box, which is the vocal folds located in the throat. If that was the case then how would you know what I was saying since you don't hear any sound whatsoever?
Well, unless you taught your daughter how to read first I doubt she could make head nor tails out the what she had seen on the list. But you could still teach her what to do even without the written word so if you need the written word to learn from your heavenly Father then did you pick up the Bible because you loved him or because you were scared by hearing others say you would you would go to hell if you didn't do what it says.
However, the word does not come from voice box, which is the vocal folds located in the throat. If that was the case then how would you know what I was saying since you don't hear any sound whatsoever?
Well, unless you taught your daughter how to read first I doubt she could make head nor tails out the what she had seen on the list. But you could still teach her what to do even without the written word so if you need the written word to learn from your heavenly Father then did you pick up the Bible because you loved him or because you were scared by hearing others say you would you would go to hell if you didn't do what it says.
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
-
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I
the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"
Acts 26:7 (KJV)
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
-
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I
the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"
Acts 26:7 (KJV)
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.
only not if she has married another man - but has she?
but she will die, in Christ - as we died in Him - and be raised again in Him a new creature.
it is not the Father who died, but the Son - and in Him, the Bride. and risen again!
how else can it be said that we will be presented to Him as a chaste virgin? and will Israel not be presented in the same way?
maybe you don't know the law as well as you boast -- you don't know how to determine a sabbath day, as we've seen.
there is one day: "today" just as it is written.
it is also written that there is a change in priesthood, and that with a change in priesthood there must also be a change in law. but whoever rejects the new Priest - our High Priest, the Lord - is condemned by the old law already, and there is no more sacrifice remaining for them.
the old things have passed away, mike. the reality has come: and it is Immanuel, God with us. a new creation; a new Adam - a new people; a new thing: such as has never been seen before. no longer do we say "the Lord, who brought us out of Egypt" -- but our Passover Lamb has already been slain, and we have eaten of Him, and do not hunger any longer. we have rest in Him, and we do not grow weary. there is no more demand for blood: but we present ourselves as free-will offerings, having already been made clean by the word of His mouth, which is His sword, cutting away darkness from light, casting out fear.
"the Lord, who brought us out of the grave"
i told you you should get a sword.
it really is a very good sword!
what makes you different from the Jews who reject their Saviour, and who put their trust in keeping Moses' law, even though they obviously cannot keep it?
there is no more sacrifice, mike. there is no more temple. you do not keep the Sabbaths Moses gave. they are more than just weekly. they do not keep them. no one can. they all require sacrifices (Numbers 28:9-10 for the weekly one) and those no longer exist -- if you are making sacrifices anywhere but the temple, you are breaking the law - and more than that, you are spitting on the sacrifice Christ made, which put an end to all sacrifices.
are you doing that?
don't kid yourself.
honor God -- for sure! and remember Him. but you are not "keeping the law" -- don't deceive yourself. you are living only because God is being merciful to you -- it is the same with me, with everyone. not because you are walking righteously. but there is a rest that remains: because Christ, by faith, has become the righteousness of the children of God. the sacrifices never end - the weekly remembrance never gave true rest: it had to be repeated every week. it was only a 'short break' not true rest. but there is a day, "today" that remains, because His promise remains.
every day is a sabbath, even though we work every day? and kindle fire, and handle money? we are resting even while we do not take our hand from the plow? that is peculiar indeed.
but doing the same things the Jews do now in absolute futility, chasing shadows? that's not peculiar.
there is no more sacrifice, mike. there is no more temple. you do not keep the Sabbaths Moses gave. they are more than just weekly. they do not keep them. no one can. they all require sacrifices (Numbers 28:9-10 for the weekly one) and those no longer exist -- if you are making sacrifices anywhere but the temple, you are breaking the law - and more than that, you are spitting on the sacrifice Christ made, which put an end to all sacrifices.
are you doing that?
don't kid yourself.
honor God -- for sure! and remember Him. but you are not "keeping the law" -- don't deceive yourself. you are living only because God is being merciful to you -- it is the same with me, with everyone. not because you are walking righteously. but there is a rest that remains: because Christ, by faith, has become the righteousness of the children of God. the sacrifices never end - the weekly remembrance never gave true rest: it had to be repeated every week. it was only a 'short break' not true rest. but there is a day, "today" that remains, because His promise remains.
every day is a sabbath, even though we work every day? and kindle fire, and handle money? we are resting even while we do not take our hand from the plow? that is peculiar indeed.
but doing the same things the Jews do now in absolute futility, chasing shadows? that's not peculiar.
Israelites are those who are in faith.
They just shall live by faith.
We come in to the lineage through Christ who comes in through Abraham.
Moses came after Abraham. The Law came through Moses. We do not come under the Law.
You did not grow up under the Old Covenant, the abolishment of the 2nd temple is outlined in Revelation. This is the end of the age. It happened in 70 AD as prophesied by Jesus. And now we are in a new age.
C.
They just shall live by faith.
We come in to the lineage through Christ who comes in through Abraham.
Moses came after Abraham. The Law came through Moses. We do not come under the Law.
You did not grow up under the Old Covenant, the abolishment of the 2nd temple is outlined in Revelation. This is the end of the age. It happened in 70 AD as prophesied by Jesus. And now we are in a new age.
C.
the oracles of God
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of
[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12
If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God];
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:
that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them
were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of
[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12
If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God];
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:
that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them
were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2