So what about the fourth commandment?

[BeyondET]

The blessing is that we don't need to guess which day is the 7th. God knows and he reminded Israel when He took them as his own treasure. God reminded them not man. So God would have established the right day. This has been kept from Israel to this day. The day named Saturday is the 7th. our calendars confirm this. History confirms this.

Jesus confirmed this. So we don't have to guess. Dates have changed often in the past but the 7 day cycle has not changed. The 7th remains the 7th but only the date itself has changed.

yes I agree the 7th day is the seventh day of rest the Jewish calander goes by a lunisolar calander but yet some go to there temples every Saturday the day named after the planet Saturn which is fine to use that day for worship but In the world today there's only very few people that don't use the word Saturday to discribe a day. the name is still a form of idolism for God made the days and man made its name after a planet. That's Why it's important to believe and follow Jesus he understands this and we are forgiven for these.

 

[Cee]

Okay lets...

1. John 14:15 If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

What are His commands?

John 15:10-12 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love. "These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

As you can see it exactly matches what Paul says... the entire law is loving others.

2. You're confusing the issue. You are completely avoiding this. Paul reprimanded Peter for not living like a Jew, but forcing Gentiles to. That's what is says, crystal clear. Peter was showing the Gentiles that the Jews were somehow more important because of their lifestyle. The entire context is living like a Jew.

3. You say God's law is not bondage? But why does Scripture call it the "ministry of death"? And that is was brought to no effect. Once again you are missing what Scripture says. The Law was given to keep people under custody until the SAVIOR could come.

Galatians 3:23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

4. Yes you're right circumcision doesn't have any effect.

5. The LAW that Paul is referring to is in fact the law written on stones not the spoken laws. I know people try to confuse this issue, but once again Scripture is crystal clear.

2 Co 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,

The law written on stone, was brought to an end, it is called the ministry of death not life like some law-keepers like to try to say, Scripture is clear.

Do you know WHY the law was brought to an end? And why Jesus said He came to fulfill it? Do you know why we don't celebrate the Sabbath (besides the fact we are not Jews and it was given as sign to THEM not us)?

Please let me know which of these Scriptures you don't agree with or isn't clear.

C.

Ok, let's start here.
1. The Messiah said if you love Me, keep My commandments. If you have a problem with that, there is not much I can do.
2. Peter withdrew from eating with the gentiles. He did so because that was a man-made law, most likely by the Pharisees. There is no law in Torah that says Jews can't eat with gentiles.
3. God's law is not bondage. The thousands of added laws by the scribes and Pharisees, that was the bondage. Again, God's law is not bondage at all.
4. About circumcision, according to Shaul, these believer WERE circumcised, but with the circumcision of the heart. Himself and Shimone-Keefa both saw new believers receive the Ruach HaKodesh, the Holy Spirit. So yes, they agreed afterwards that physical circumcision was not necessary for the believers who had the circumcision of the heart.

 

[Ahwatukee]

after He fulfilled it, did He cancel it? or postpone it? or throw it out? or say it still stands? what are you saying?

After he fulfilled it, the requirements of the law were satisfied. The requirements of the law have already been met perfectly by Jesus as a human being. Jesus did what we can't and could not do. Those who trust in Christ are fulfilling every jot and tittle and that because Christ did, and our faith is in Him. I guarantee you, neither you nor anyone else is keeping the law, but we break it continually, which is why Christ came to meet its requirements on our behalf, bringing it to its end. We are credited with righteousness through faith. God sees the righteousness of Christ in all believers because of faith, not by works.

 

[Cee]

has heaven and earth passed away?
so you are saying He didn't come to destroy the law, but to cancel out the law? wow.

When you died with Christ, you died to the law, when you died to the law you were reborn in Christ, who kept the law perfectly. How do you follow Christ, you love others as you yourselves were loved.

The law does exist, but not for you if you're in Christ, because you died to it.

C.

 

[gotime]

I see where you are coming form now. I know the world calls it Saturday. I don't, I call it Sabbath as that is what it is.

just as Nebuchadnezzar named Daniel Which means God is my Judge. and named Him Bleteshazzar which means Bel protects his life or some such thing.

This like the day means nothing. While the king may call it Saturday it is none the less the Sabbath of God.

 

[BeyondET]

When you died with Christ, you died to the law, when you died to the law you were reborn in Christ, who kept the law perfectly. How do you follow Christ, you love others as you yourselves were loved.

The law does exist, but not for you if you're in Christ, because you died to it.

C.

Theres the problem he has thrown out the word Jesus Christ for he thinks it has no meaning to him anymore he rather use Yeshua which is fine they are still one in the same name but for some reason he had a change of heart concerning this and disputes the name Jesus and adopted Yeshua why is that who knows his theory on that.

 

[disciplemike]

Okay lets...

1. John 14:15 If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

What are His commands?

John 15:10-12 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love. "These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

As you can see it exactly matches what Paul says... the entire law is loving others.

2. You're confusing the issue. You are completely avoiding this. Paul reprimanded Peter for not living like a Jew, but forcing Gentiles to. That's what is says, crystal clear. Peter was showing the Gentiles that the Jews were somehow more important because of their lifestyle. The entire context is living like a Jew.

3. You say God's law is not bondage? But why does Scripture call it the "ministry of death"? And that is was brought to no effect. Once again you are missing what Scripture says. The Law was given to keep people under custody until the SAVIOR could come.

Galatians 3:23 23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

4. Yes you're right circumcision doesn't have any effect.

5. The LAW that Paul is referring to is in fact the law written on stones not the spoken laws. I know people try to confuse this issue, but once again Scripture is crystal clear.

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,

The law written on stone, was brought to an end, it is called the ministry of death not life like some law-keepers like to try to say, Scripture is clear.

Do you know WHY the law was brought to an end? And why Jesus said He came to fulfill it? Do you know why we don't celebrate the Sabbath (besides the fact we are not Jews and it was given as sign to THEM not us)?

C.

ok, let's take a look.
1. Loving each other is not an original New Testament concept. It is from the Old Testament. Also notice what the Messiah says here: >> Yeshua answered them, and said,
My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. John 7:16 (KJV)

compare to this >> For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
Proverbs 4:2 (KJV)

Now you do realize that Yeshua and His Father are on the same page, right?? good.

2. Peter made a mistake, as Peter did several times. This is why Shaul rebuked him. Not for breaking God's commandment, because that is not a commandment from God. That is a man-made commandment, that the Jews were not suppose to eat with Gentiles. (I already answered this part, very clearly)

3. God's law is not bondage. God's law is perfect. Read on in Galatians 4:3, "in bondage under elements of this world". Now, is that speaking of God's perfect law? No. What about John (1John5.3) who says that the commandments of God are not grievous? (not weighty, not burdensome)

 

[disciplemike]

When you died with Christ, you died to the law, when you died to the law you were reborn in Christ, who kept the law perfectly. How do you follow Christ, you love others as you yourselves were loved.

The law does exist, but not for you if you're in Christ, because you died to it.

C.

ok, answer this. If the law is not for me, as a believer, which commandments am I allowed to break freely? all of them? Can I steal from my neighbor, take his wife... murder his mother-in-law?

 

[TonyJay]

1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.
2 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”
3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?
6 Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple.
7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the guiltless.
8 For the Son of Man is Lord even[b] of the Sabbath.”

9 Now when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue.
10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—that they might accuse Him.
11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out?
12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”
13 Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other.
14 Then the Pharisees went out and plotted against Him, how they might destroy Him.
(Matt 12:1-14)

For those of us who are in Christ we are no longer under the Law (read Romans for the details).
We are called to a higher law - the law of grace (again see Romans for the details).
As believers we are part of the priesthood (see 1 Peter) and as such have access to God anytime and any day we want.
The Law demands worship on the Sabbath.
The law of grace gives us the opportunity to worship God any time we wish - either collectively or singly.

Should we be worshipping God?
Yes!
Should we be worshipping God by ourselves?
Yes!
Should we be worshipping God collectively as believers?
Yes!
Should we set aside specific times and days to worship God collectively?
Yes!
Does it matter which day/s we choose to worship God collectively?
Actually, no!

 

[disciplemike]

After he fulfilled it, the requirements of the law were satisfied. The requirements of the law have already been met perfectly by Jesus as a human being. Jesus did what we can't and could not do. Those who trust in Christ are fulfilling every jot and tittle and that because Christ did, and our faith is in Him. I guarantee you, neither you nor anyone else is keeping the law, but we break it continually, which is why Christ came to meet its requirements on our behalf, bringing it to its end. We are credited with righteousness through faith. God sees the righteousness of Christ in all believers because of faith, not by works.

wait, you are going in circles. if he is ending the law, why does he say that people who teach against it will be called least in the kingdom??
also, if he ended the law, why does anyone need a Savior?

also, If he ended the law, can I kill, steal, commit adultery?

Do you see how silly this sounds?

 

[disciplemike]

1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.
2 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”
3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?
6 Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple.
7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the guiltless.
8 For the Son of Man is Lord even[b] of the Sabbath.”

9 Now when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue.
10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—that they might accuse Him.
11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out?
12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”
13 Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other.
14 Then the Pharisees went out and plotted against Him, how they might destroy Him.
(Matt 12:1-14)

For those of us who are in Christ we are no longer under the Law (read Romans for the details).
We are called to a higher law - the law of grace (again see Romans for the details).
As believers we are part of the priesthood (see 1 Peter) and as such have access to God anytime and any day we want.
The Law demands worship on the Sabbath.
The law of grace gives us the opportunity to worship God any time we wish - either collectively or singly.

Should we be worshipping God?
Yes!
Should we be worshipping God by ourselves?
Yes!
Should we be worshipping God collectively as believers?
Yes!
Should we set aside specific times and days to worship God collectively?
Yes!
Does it matter which day/s we choose to worship God collectively?
Actually, no!

So, you say that the day God chose to call holy, people can just choose any day? how does that work?

 

[TonyJay]

So, you say that the day God chose to call holy, people can just choose any day? how does that work?

It works because we are called to worship God EVERYDAY!

 

[Ahwatukee]

ok, answer this. If the law is not for me, as a believer, which commandments am I allowed to break freely? all of them? Can I steal from my neighbor, take his wife... murder his mother-in-law?

None! We are simply not under the law. By not being under the law, we can't break the law. If we follow Christ who met the righteous requirements of the law, we will not transgress those things. Yet whenever we do sin at any point, if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Why is it that you people who preach the law that, when we say that we are not under the law, you take it to mean that we mean that we have free license to sin? You have not understood what is written in Galatians and Romans regarding the works of the law vs. grace. If you did, you would not be preaching the keeping of the law.

 

[BeyondET]

I see where you are coming form now. I know the world calls it Saturday. I don't, I call it Sabbath as that is what it is.

just as Nebuchadnezzar named Daniel Which means God is my Judge. and named Him Bleteshazzar which means Bel protects his life or some such thing.

This like the day means nothing. While the king may call it Saturday it is none the less the Sabbath of God.

Its ok if people do call it Saturday or any other day it's name given by man. so much of what we do and think today has come about by man a lot of times we don't even know we do it because law breaking has been ingrained in society in so many ways it's mind boggling thus the need for a savior from all these corruptions.

 

[Cee]

Theres the problem he has thrown out the word Jesus Christ for he thinks it has no meaning to him anymore he rather use Yeshua which is fine they are still one in the same name but for some reason he had a change of heart concerning this and disputes the name Jesus and adopted Yeshua why is that who knows his theory on that.

Scripture has an answer for this as well:

John 19:19Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross. It read, “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews.” 20Many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and it was written in Aramaic, in Latin, and in Greek.

Notice that Jesus name is written in many languages so people can read it. Some law keeper teaching says you have to believe the right names to be saved. But Scripture shows us it's fine if people translate the name Jesus into other languages. And even in Greek which is where the transliterated form Jesus comes from.

C.

 

[disciplemike]

It works because we are called to worship God EVERYDAY!

of course you can worship every day. that is a wonderful answer. However, you just destroyed the word "holy". Holy means "set apart". Now if you everything the same way every day, then none of them are holy. They are all the same. But wait, God called the 7th day "holy". He says it is His Sabbath. It is better than the other 6 days.

 

[disciplemike]

Scripture has an answer for this as well:

John 19:19Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross. It read, “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews.” 20Many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and it was written in Aramaic, in Latin, and in Greek.


Notice that Jesus name is written in many languages so people can read it. Some law keeper teaching says you have to believe the right names to be saved. But Scripture shows us it's fine if people translate the name Jesus into other languages. And even in Greek which is where the transliterated form Jesus comes from.

C.

I don't think so. In Hebrew culture, names mean a lot. Like Yeshua, which means salvation. Now what does jesus mean? I think it means a horse.

 

[disciplemike]

None! We are simply not under the law. By not being under the law, we can't break the law. If we follow Christ who met the righteous requirements of the law, we will not transgress those things. Yet whenever we do sin at any point, if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Why is it that you people who preach the law that, when we say that we are not under the law, you take it to mean that we mean that we have free license to sin? You have not understood what is written in Galatians and Romans regarding the works of the law vs. grace. If you did, you would not be preaching the keeping of the law.

Oh brother, here we go in circles again. You just said he brought the law to an end. Why ask forgiveness? where there is no law, no sin is imputed. Please tell me you see how silly this sounds when you say the law is ended.

 

[BeyondET]

of course you can worship every day. that is a wonderful answer. However, you just destroyed the word "holy". Holy means "set apart". Now if you everything the same way every day, then none of them are holy. They are all the same. But wait, God called the 7th day "holy". He says it is His Sabbath. It is better than the other 6 days.

ok some people have to work on Saturday and Sunday and a lot of times that is what people have to do to earn a living and may not be able to find or get hired for those Monday through Friday jobs what then how would someone in this case set aside a holy day.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I don't think so. In Hebrew culture, names mean a lot. Like Yeshua, which means salvation. Now what does jesus mean? I think it means a horse.

Please! The name "Jesus" is just the English transliteration of the Hebrew term Yeshua, just as "Iésous" is the Greek transliteration, which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation"). Since they are all transliterated from the Hebrew term, then they have the same meaning as what they are transliterated from.