So what about the fourth commandment?

[badger58]

And the Law says Be Perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect.

The Law says if you don't perform it you receive condemnation and death.

Exactly! And how would we assess mans performance in doing that?

If we fail in just one point of the law, we are guilty of breaking the entire law.

And so, we are all in the same boat. It should be absolutely clear, that all of us have absolutely failed to obey the law.

The fault is not in the stars, it completely lay with us.

But thanks be to God, for His name sake. He chooses to be surrounded by children that He has redeemed, loved and forgiven,

rather than have a display case with the ten commandments, with a plack that reads:I TOLD THEM SO,THEY GOT WHATTHEY DESERVED!
TWO DIFFERENT ETERNITIES. BECAUSE OF HIS MERCY, WE WILL LOVE HIM FOREVER.

THANK YOU FATHER, THAT YOU LOVE US AND HAVE FORGIVEN US.

YOU ARE WORTHY OF OUR PRAISE FOREVER!

 

[Grandpa]

Exactly! And how would we assess mans performance in doing that?

If we fail in just one point of the law, we are guilty of breaking the entire law.

Galatians 3:21-22
[FONT=&quot]21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


[/FONT]

 

[abcdef]

The two witnesses will tell us when its time to head for Zion. It will make the exodus from Egypt pail in comparison.
Peace!

It has been going on since around 1945 until this day.

 

[trofimus]

So what about the fourth commandment?

Nothing.

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Romans 14:5

 

[abcdef]

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:But the seventh day
[is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)

You want to keep parts of the Law,

The ten commandments, the dietary laws, and the holy days,

Keep them if you want to.
-------------------------------------------

This is a matter of the spirit.

The Holy Spirit of love (gift of the Holy Spirit, born again) fills your life so that the Law is no longer needed to guide your life, now you have love and the mind of Christ 1 Cor 2:16.

There is no law for God (Love), but Jesus lived and died under the Law to free us from it.
-------------------------------------
These laws that you have chosen to follow are only good to a point, then you must move beyond them.

The Law says that we shall not commit adultery,

But Jesus said Matt 5:27-28, That if you lust after a woman you have committed adultery with her in your heart,

Which one is of the Spirit of love?

Which one is the greater commandment?

Which one falls short of what Jesus wants from us?
----------------------------------------------------------------

Let me put this another way.......

Matt 22:35-40

Jesus was asked what was the great commandment of the law? v 36

Jesus quoted De 6:5 in v 37, "You shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

Then He quoted Le 19:18 in v 39, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

Matt 22:40, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

BUT THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT AMONG THE ONES YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO KEEP!!!!!

The ones that are the most important,

The ones upon which all the others "hang",

Will you add them to your list of commandments to keep?
----

Jesus gave us a new commandment,

Jn 13:34, "That ye love one another; as I have loved you",

Which commandment is greater?

Which calls for more love?

Which one commands us to have the love of God/Jesus within us?
-------------------------

All these laws are gone,

We love because we have God's spirit within us, not because we are commanded to.

We don't look on a woman with lust because we love her eternal soul, not because of the commandment.

Love guides us now.
----------------------------------

 

[Wall]

It's edifying to understand what the purpose of the 4th commandment was.

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you. Exodus 31:13

Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them. Ezekiel 20:12​

Yup.

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.[17] THEY THAT SANCTIFY THEMSELVES, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, SHALL BE CONSUMED together, saith the LORD.

In Isaiah we find a Day of the Lord scripture. We see how Gods people are sanctified in the scriptures you posted. Not hard to figure out who the people are that sanctify themselves

 

[Wall]

It's purpose was to point to the eternal rest that is available in Jesus Christ "today". (Heb. 4:1-11)

Just read Hebrews 4 and i cant seem to find this eternal rest you speak of. I did find....

HEBREWS 4 [9] THERE REMAINETH THEREFORE A REST to the people of God.[10] For HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, he also hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Well...Ya see what it says. Now lets see how God rested from His work

HEBREWS 4 [4] For he spake in a certain place of THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works

Yup. God rested the 7th day. That would be the sabbath day FNC

 

[Wall]

But now, by dying to what once bound us,
we have been released from the law
so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit,
and not in the old way of the written code.
(Romans 7:6)


​

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -
- not of the letter but of the Spirit;
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
(2 Corinthians 3:6)​

say what??

say AMEN!

Niether of those scriptures say the sabbath has change

say what??

What saith your Redeemer?

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

 

[Wall]

Every so often we get into a huge argument about the Sabbath. Some argue that it HAS to be observed on Saturday. Others, like myself, believe the point of this law is to make sure we get a day’s rest each week. I will site this Scripture to back up my belief:

[27] And he said to them, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath;
[28] so the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath."
Mart 2:27-28 RSV

So where are the scriptures to back your belief?

DEUT.4
[13] And he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

PSALM 89 [30] IF HIS CHILDREN FORSAKE MY LAW, and walk not in my judgments; [31] If they break my statutes, AND KEEP NOT MY COMMANDMENTS; [32] Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. [33] Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. [34] MY COVENANT WILL I NOT BREAK, NOR ALTER the thing that is gone out of my lips.

There are "many" like you who believe that Gods 4th commandment has been altered. Not me.

 

[Wall]

The Sabbath was made for man. And God was specific, very specific, about which day it is. I wonder why someone would try to change the day? Why would someone seek to change times and laws?

Daniel 7:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

When that someone is the bad guy.

 

[Wall]

disciplemike...

Disciple of Christ...

...or Moses?

The words of Christ

John 5:45-47 (KJV)
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

[Wall]

Sounds like you're judging the liberty that we have in Christ.

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil THE ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY

Do not commit adultry, do not kill (the 10 commandments) and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Keep ALL 10. Ya practice to break one, your guilty of all {verse 10}. You are a transgressor. Do you keep Gods day of rest (the sabbath) or do you keep mans day of rest?

JAMES 1 [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.[25] But whoso looketh into THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY, and continueth therein, he being NOT A FORGETFUL HEARER, BUT A DOER OF THE WORK, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

ROMANS 2 [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13] (For NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST before God, but THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

The perfect law of liberty. Blessed be the man that be a doer of the work. Work??? Bad word for some.

PSALM 119 [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.[43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.[44] So shall I KEEP THY LAW continually for ever and ever.[45] And I WILL WALK AT LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.[46] I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.[47] And I WILL DELIGHT MYSELF IN THY COMMANDMENTS, which I have loved.

So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY. That cant be misinterpreted

 

[Wall]

No, I am saying it was not sin, because they were hungry and no other good options. The Messiah did not break the Sabbath commandment. He was accused of breaking it several times, but He did not.

Yeah disciplemike, the Jews added over 100 laws to the original commandment. Jesus was making the point that their added laws to the sabbath held no water. He was making the point that the sabbath was made for man as a blessing and not a burden

 

[Wall]

thanks for clarifying.

i know you're being inundated here, but if at some point you could tell us what you think about circumcision, i would surely appreciate it.

My 2 cents if i may

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

From the writings of Paul after Christ had risen. Keep Gods 10 commandments

 

[Wall]

debates have their purpose if it can be done in a mature and Christ like manner and this topic is one that is a very sensitive subject and I have been here for long time and seen many of these threads about this subject never once has it ever turn out good and many people left hurt.

I simply can't handle anymore people being hurt and being chased away because people can't restrain themselves and love to go into heated fiery debates only to end up hurting others and making the enemy roll on the floor laughing

I know what your saying Blain but its something that must be said

PSALM 94 [11] The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. [12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O Lord, and teachest him out of thy law; [13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked. [14] For the Lord will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. [15] But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. [16] WHO WILL RISE UP FOR ME AGAINST THE EVILDOERS? OR WHO WILL STAND UP FOR ME AGAINST THE WORKERS OF INIQUITY?

I feel we must rise up for Christ no matter the outcome


LEV.5 [17] And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.

Break commandments=iniquity

NUMBERS 15 [31] Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Break commandments=iniquity

PSALMS 89 [30] If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;[31] If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;[32] Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

Break commandments=iniquity

MATT.7 [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Ye that work iniquity=I never knew you

1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Theres the children that know the Lord.

JEREMIAH 16 [9] For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride. [10] And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? or WHAT IS OUR INIQUITY? or what is our sin that we have committed against the Lord our God? [11] Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, AND HAVE FORSAKEN ME, AND HAVE NOT KEPT MY LAW;

Verses 14 and 15 of this chapter in Jeremiah speaks of the gathering of Gods people (in the twinkling of an eye) to the 1000 yr period of rest. At that time, the many (Matt.7) will ask “what is our iniquity”. The answer given will be simple. You have not kept MY law. Gods 10 commandments.

 

[Wall]

Ezekiel 3:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

 

[Wall]

Recent discoveries are finding a lot of the N.T. that was original in Hebrew. It whichever case, studying the early manuscripts in their own language brings a lot more than the 17th century English. Although I like English also. My regular reading Bible is ESV, but I do most of my study on software, with quick reference to word studies.

Hey. I dont know what the ESV is but i will say that you are the 1st person i have come across with your beliefs that did not read the ole King James only. And ive been doing this since the last century.

 

[Wall]

Whoops! Spoke too soon. So back to which day, eh?

OKay. I'll go with you on that the moment you can prove which day the seventh day was originally. (Hint: It doesn't come from our calendar.)

The original 7th day is the one still kept today. Jesus kept the sabbath and He would know exactly which day it was on as He made the sabbath day. And the same day has been kept since the days of Jesus

 

[JaumeJ]

At the time of the Protestant schism with the RCC, no one thought to review the man made changes to the Word, that s, they did not go along with God on the Word and what it actually instructs us. The protestant vote went along with Constantines's decision to rewrite the fourth commandment to suit man, certain men that is. These are just some of the men who have crept in unawares to change the Word of God in order to lead astray the sheep of the Good Shepherd. Of course they will not be astray forever, He will leave the Flock and gather each one back to the Fold.........

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:But the seventh day
[is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)

 

[Wall]

These are just some of the men who have crept in unawares to change the Word of God in order to lead astray the sheep of the Good Shepherd. Of course they will not be astray forever, He will leave the Flock and gather each one back to the Fold.........

Yeah JaumeJ thats what scripture says will happen

DEUT.4 [27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, AND YE SHALL BE LEFT FEW IN NUMBER AMONG THE HEATHEN, whither the LORD shall lead you.[28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.[29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.[30] WHEN THOU ART IN TRIBULATION, AND ALL THESE THINGS ARE COME UPON THEE, EVEN IN THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;[31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

The Lord scatters the 10 {lost}tribes of the children of Israel amoung the gentiles for being disobedient. The lost sheep? Look what happens in the latter days.

MATT.15 [22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.[24] But he answered and said, I AM NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP of the house of Israel.

Jesus said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

JER.50 [4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in A PERPETUAL COVENANT that shall not be forgotten.[6] MY PEOPLE HATH BEEN LOST SHEEP: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN THEIR RESTINGPLACE.

My people hath been lost sheep
they have forgotten their restingplace (they sure have)
let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten (remember the sabbath…)

Well, In Jeremiah we can find the sheep that Jesus came for. The remnant of the lost 10 tribes of the children of Israel, who believe they are nothing more than gentiles. Have the many been decieved, just as the new testament says. The sabbath rest has been forgotten, but as you can see, the lost sheep that Jesus came for will return to the “perpetual covenant” and keep Gods sabbath day.