So what about the fourth commandment?

Wall · Jul 12, 2016

Just posted this on another thread. Its relavent also to this one

REV.14 [9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

above scripture sign – hand - forehead (between the eyes) - cup of indignation – the bad guys
below scriptures sign – hand - between thine eyes (forehead) - the LORDS LAW – the good guys

DEUT.6 [2] That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and HIS COMMANDMENTS, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.[3] Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.[4]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: [5]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. [6]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: [7]And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. [8]And thou shalt bind them for A SIGN UPON THINE HAND, and they shall be as FRONTLETS BETWEEN THINE EYES.

EXOD.13 [9] And it shall be for a SIGN unto thee UPON THINE HAND, and for A MEMORIAL BETWEEN THINE EYES, that the LORD's LAW may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

GandalfTheWhite · Jul 13, 2016

Magenta said:

Yes we have to remember He is the living Word

disciplemike · Jul 13, 2016

Grandpa said:

It requires work to learn, and be disciplined, and be ridiculed, but I would not change a thing at this point!

JaumeJ · Jul 13, 2016

You will never convince anyone who cannot learn. Jesus and John both remind us to obey God's commandments. I understand from Jesus Christ's Example and teaching what and how to obey. Anyone with the law on their hearts inscribed has this knowledge, but they are discouraged from studying exactly what Jesus teaches on the subject and how He obeyed the law.

These are the people who claim they know and understand, yet they believe Jesus Christ obeyed all of the laws written, yet He mediated for the woman caught in adultery that she not be stoned toddeath as required by the law. He also teaches against an eye for an eye replacing it with turn the other cheek, while the detractors say He as talking to Jews only. These latter are so confused tey to not realized the same good news for teh Jews from Jesus is teh same He gives to ALL.

If any wish to know how to deal with the law, first , they have to know the law, then they have to study to know which ones Jesus Christ has completed for us...He is the High Priest.......no Levitical laws per se, ..He made all foods clean barring blood and things strangled, which I never would eat. So much more.

Concerning the Ten Commandments, no man has been given the authority to change them one iota, yet so many of our mercy filled lawyers today change them, or say they cannot be followed.

One important lesson from Jesus Christ concerning the law isto the point and simple, always apply faith, mercy and justice when interpreting the law. Mercy alone is enough to eliminate most, justice is good for all, and faith in Jesus Christ's Word should finish off the law and the commandments leaving only what is obviously extant in the sight of our Most Holy Father.

Bless all who are in Jesus Christ and who hear Him.

prove-all · Jul 13, 2016

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing,
but the keeping of the commandments of God.

In the Bible we find that there are over 40 verses from Paul alone
as to why circumcision is not done anymore. How important are
the Ten Commandments in comparison to circumcision?

If Paul says that the Ten Commandments are what matters and
Circumcision is nothing, and we have more than forty verses and
up to ten verses at a time explaining that Circumcision of the flesh
is not relevant anymore, then how many scriptures should we
expect to have telling us that the Sabbath is changed to Sunday?

The fact of the matter is that there is not one scripture that says,
“The Sabbath is now Sunday.”

Wall · Jul 13, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

2 COR. 3 [6] WHO ALSO HATH MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

ROMANS 7 [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.

As we can see in above scriptures we are now to walk in the spirit of the law. If we walk only in the letter of the law this will lead to death, but if we walk in the spirit of the law this leads to life.

MATTHEW 5 [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT KILL; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not kill
NEW SPIRIT- Don’t even get angry. Call no man a fool. Love one another in thought, word and deed.

MATTHEW 5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But i say unto you, that WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY with her already in his heart.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not commit adultery
NEW SPIRIT- Do not look on a woman to lust. Keep the law in our mind and spirit. Even in our eyes.

[FONT=&quot]So tell me HRFTD how in the world do you keep the spirit of the law and not be walking in the letter of the law?[/FONT]

Grandpa · Jul 13, 2016

disciplemike said:

What are you ridiculed for?

Wall · Jul 13, 2016

The early Christians should have seen this coming. They were actually givin many warnings about the bad guys and what they would do. The warnings are all around the new testament. Lions and wolves and false profits ...oh my

1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a ROARING LION, walketh about, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:

ROARING LIONS! The bad guys

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are RAVENING WOLVES.

FALSE PROPHETS! They are RAVENING WOLVES. “The many” will follow these false prophets and but a few will take the way of life. Exactly what has happened

ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous WOLVES ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES after them.

The GRIEVOUS WOLVES been hangin round from the beginning

EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth WALK NOT AS OTHER GENTILES walk, in the VANITY of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all UNCLEANNESS with GREEDINESS.

All these warnings from the new testament are found in one scripture. “Day of the Lord” scriptures are not about ancient Israel. That day has not yet come. Day of the Lord scriptures do apply to christians (those who believe that Jesus came) and these scriptures will come to pass. To see what these ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES have done, simply read and believe the Word.

EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY OF HER PROPHETS in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; THEY HAVE DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN, and HAVE HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, SEEING VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

A conspiracy of the prophets. HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS! They meant to do it and they sure did pull it off despite the warnings. Up until the printing press, bibles were pretty scarce but even if someone discovered the Ezek.22 scripture Im sure the powers that be would have silenced that someone. Short of going before the wizard....How did these bad guys pull this off? No stawman jokes please.

Wall · Jul 13, 2016

1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 THES. 5 [1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [2] For yourselves know perfectly that THE DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night. [3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION cometh upon them, as travail upon a WOMAN WITH CHILD; and they shall not escape.

Doesn’t [1Thes.5] explain to us that [1Thes.4] takes place on The Day of the Lord? There is no scriptural gap between the above scriptures. 1Thes.5 directly follows 1Thes.4 verse 18. There were no chapters and verses when 1Thes was written. It clearly says that the goins on of 1Thes.4 takes place on the Day of the Lord. The day of the Lord takes place after the tribulatuion.

Thes. scriptures---women with child—V.16 resurrection---sudden destruction—Day of the Lord
Isaiah26-----------women with child----V.19 resurrection---punish earthlings-----Day of the Lord

ISAIAH 26 [17] Like as a WOMAN WITH CHILD, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord. [18] We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. [19] THY DEAD MEN SHALL LIVE, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. [20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, UNTIL THE INDIGNATION BE OVERPAST. [21] For, behold, THE LORD COMETH OUT OF HIS PLACE TO PUNISH THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH FOR THEIR INIQUITY: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Yeah. Verses 20-21. Surely the Day of the Lord

Wall · Jul 13, 2016

Sorry folks. My last post doesnt belong here. Its rapture stuff

AmberJeanetteGardner · Jul 13, 2016

disciplemike said:

The Bible goes on to tell us what Jesus says about the Sabbath. He specifically points out the Sabbath and says it was a shadow of things to come. Jesus Christ is our rest.

Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Wall · Jul 13, 2016

AmberJeanetteGardner said:

Still workin on Col.2:16 but heres something to ponder

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

The scripture above is the scripture used by “many” sunday go to meetin pulpiteers to distance themselves from Gods sabbath day. Its also their biggy to eat their piggy. But what is Col.2{16} really talking about. Let scripture interpret scripture.

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

[FONT=&quot]Heres a scripture, same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths.

[/FONT] JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

disciplemike · Jul 13, 2016

Grandpa said:

for not agreeing with the majority of the "Christians" here.

Grace777x70 · Jul 13, 2016

Galatians 1:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

disciplemike · Jul 13, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Those are good verses. However, (isn't there always a "however"?)
I think we are not in full agreement about what the gospel is.

gotime · Jul 13, 2016

The very act of keeping the 7th day Sabbath is an act of faith.

The Sabbath is a memorial of Gods finished creative work at the beginning.

To keep it states your faith that He is the creator God who created all things. In fact the new testament reveals Christ Jesus to be the the creator also. Thus to keep the 7th day Sabbath expresses faith in Jesus as the creator.

gotime · Jul 13, 2016

Wall said:

nice to see someone looking at scripture to gain understanding, instead of putting their own spin on the meaning.

There were indeed Sabbath days directly connected to feasts, These Sabbath days were on top and sometimes came on the same day as the 7th day Sabbath. They did indeed hold a shadow of the Lord Jesus Christ.

But the reality is plain and simple. The 7th day Sabbath was instituted after the event it was placed for. It points back not forward. So it is clear beyond any doubt that Paul is not talking about he 7th day Sabbath here. And here is scripture.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Notice verse 8 is a call to remember. Verse 11 tells us why we should remember it and where it came from.

Keep in mind the 10 commandments are not the law in and of themselves but the entire first five books. So we go then to see what this is that God refers to when he tells them to remember.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So it is that the creation was finished and God blessed the 7th day and set it apart as holy, why? Verse 2 tells us just like the commandment told us, because God had finished creation and on this day he rested/ceased from creating.

Its plain, Its simple.

gotime · Jul 13, 2016

The question of is the 7th day Sabbath a shadow of things to come is easily answered with a definitive no. Scripture clearly reveals this as seen above in simplicity and ease.

The next thing that often gets thrown is well it was only for the Jews.

But when did God make the Sabbath day and set it apart?

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Yes we have already seen it was after the 6 days of creation. Only Adam and Eve existed at this time and they were under the term:

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Notice he called "their" name Adam, this is not the best translation as the Hebrew word used here is the same one used in verse 1 translated "man" meaning man or mankind. Its 120 in your strong's if you want to look it up.

So Adam and Eve were humans. Look who Jesus said the Sabbath was made for:

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The Sabbath was made for mankind/man. Notice it does not say Jew. In fact the Old Testament is clear that it was never only intended for the Jewish people:

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Notice from the commandment that even the stranger/Gentile/non-Jew was to remember the Sabbath also.

Isaiah spoke in this way:

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

So clearly the Scriptures never taught that the 7th day Sabbath was only for Israel.

Some then say well why is it not commanded before Moses?

This will require some thought.

The law is not one book but the first five books. They are all one law, They are all connected.

None of this law was in written form until Moses including Genesis. Yet these stories were passed down by word of mouth. Moses is the first to write them down under the inspiration of God.

So if you are to read the scriptures properly with this in mind, then things become clear. was there a law before Moses?

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Apparently Abraham obeyed Gods voice and kept his laws and commandments etc. what were these laws etc?

Remember one law all five books so it is seen else where. Namely after the exodus. God does not need to repeat everything over and over again in the law for every person because the whole thing is one law.

It is clear that the Sabbath was instituted at creation which is at the beginning of the law. The command recorded in the exodus which is part of that same law, refers its reader to the first part in Genesis.

You find the Sabbath before Moses in creation, You find clean and unclean meats before Moses in the story of Noah. you find adultery is wrong before Moses in the story of Joseph. and so on it goes.

Hope that helps some

gotime · Jul 13, 2016

sorry for the harping on but this is an important point.

Moses wrote the first five books.

There was not a book of Genesis existing before exodus etc. They all came at the same time by the hand of Moses by the will of God to the nation of Israel. I hope you can picture that.

So the book of Genesis was not written as some simple history but rather as part of the very law itself. It was written for people who knew Gods law as shown in Exodus, Leviticus and so on. So this was the group of people who were first reading it.

So when a Jew saw that Abraham kept the law and commandments, they did not wonder what that law was, they knew it because it was shown them by God when He brought them out. It was explained to them in detail and Moses recorded it.

When they read about the Sabbath in Genesis they did not think it sat there dormant for thousands of years then suddenly God enforced it on them later down the track. No the law found in Exodus was their focal point for the rest.

While the stories in Genesis happened before the stories in exodus. They were recorded as part of the law at the same time. Genesis is not some separate bunch of unrelated stories. They are 100% related and are part of the law itself.

God first gave the book of Genesis to Israel through Moses as part of the law. So each informs the other.

You can't just read it with a linear view. If the books were ordered in a way that would be informed then Genesis would be last of the five. As it should be read through the lens of the other books.

See Moses was around for the other four books. This is the reference point of all five. The first in our bibles/Genesis is informed by the other four.

Remember, Moses wrote them and they were for the nation of Israel. Even Genesis. They are all one law. Their reference point was the last four books of the law because that is where they actually lived. Genesis was given at that time with them and their understanding of God was the reference point for the book of Genesis. They are not unrelated.

Genesis is not an entire history but rather the parts of history that fit with the law and are part of that law.

Hope that clears some things up.

gotime · Jul 13, 2016

By the way when Paul says the law added later that includes Genesis.

So what about the fourth commandment?

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