Some common misconceptions about God;

joaniemarie · Feb 17, 2018

I would ask anyone who reads Angela's accusations to please read the thread. I did not say what Angela quoted me as saying in her post. We all must be careful to not misrepresent what our brothers and sisters have posted.
Bless each person who comes to these forums and may each one of us seek the truth in love.

Depleted · Feb 17, 2018

Depleted said:

Did some checking, and also found out all you have to do is send in a $75 "entrance fee," pick a category few writers venture into, and you too can win a Silver Metal.

(BTW, "entrance fee" is also a clue it is could be a scam.)

Griffindor · Feb 17, 2018

So the only people you trust are those that have proved themselves at a seminary. Those are the people Jesus constantly rebuked - oh and Jesus didn’t go to seminary. That also means in order to give a valid comment on this thread you should have gone to seminary. Microphone drop.

Depleted · Feb 17, 2018

joaniemarie said:

What was that you just said about Angela?

joaniemarie said:

Read the thread! I've asked you many times about what you believe on his first sentence, and yet you did cartwheels to avoid answering that question, because, indeed, you DON'T believe the Book of Job. You'd rather believe the conman Paul Ellis who lied about the book!

Worse yet, you rather preach the same lies. That is what you do when you start a post on here, always find some conman to copy-paste and then pull out the whoa-is-me card because we all know he's a conman.

The evidence is loud and clear throughout this thread.

No! Really never ever going to just let you keep copy-pasting blaspheme, anti-Christian, inappropriate, counterproductive, and offense teachers for whatever your true goal is.

I'm taking Matt. 7:16 right now, and see your fruit. It's a thornapple! It's poison!

I'm working my best to make sure no one else eats it, because look what has happened to you just holding it this long.

You know what you've done? Every time, first you play the victim, then you defend yourself, then you squeeze in a little false-Christianese to seem nice. And who do you draw to your aid by doing that? The same kinds of people, except some of them haven't figured out how to pretend to be nice yet. It doesn't matter. The goal isn't nice.

The goal is God. And it is clear your goal is not God. It is what you can get out of him. Always has been.

Depleted · Feb 17, 2018

Griffindor said:

Really? Your first post is that?

Not big into noticing what's happening first, huh?

FlSnookman7 · Feb 17, 2018

Depleted said:

Why not? It is easy to see whats happening. It is among other things ugly, non-edifying and certainly not Christian. If anyone dares disagree with what 4 or 5 have decided is the only correct interpretation of God's Word then they are branded as heretics or worse and anytime they post or comment the same few people search for any way to attack. These people have not known the freedom only Jesus gives and get enraged by those who do know Him. They would have us all attend a mandatory hour or two of church then spend the rest of our time in bondage to guilt and self recrimination. Walking around feeling guilty all the time is NOT the life Jesus wants for us. He wants us to take rest in Him and have faith that He has done what He says He has done. We are to love one another and lift up one another. If someone has been healed or has a certain spiritual gift we should be joyful for them and glorify God with them, not mock them and let our flesh rule the show with envy and pride.

I understand why they do this, it's a lack of faith that results in a lack of a true relationship with Jesus. I do pray for them every day and I usually do not comment on said behavior but it is just becoming too ugly. We are supposed to be brothers and sisters in Christ. That should mean we are a part of a greater whole and when we beat down, are rude to or just attack any part of that body what we are really doing is making that body weaker and in doing hurting ourselves. What do you think a person "on the fence" about Christianity thinks when they see the rudeness some Christians treat each other with?

You can say "but if we love someone we must tell them the truth" all you want but to be sarcastic, ugly and rude under the guise of spreading truth has a name and it sure isn't Christianity.

Stunnedbygrace · Feb 17, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Except you, right?
You are not even going by your OWN understanding, but by the understandings of other men. Ones who say God didn't give permission for Satan to buffet Job when it clearly shows and states that He did. And its not one obscure place because Jesus also says: Satan has ASKED permission to sift you like wheat and when you return from it, help your brothers. Why did Satan ask, JM? According to you, he doesn't need to have permission to touch one of Gods kids.

So now you have two places in scripture that need to be satisfatorily explained away, not just one.

You don't understand suffering and suffering scares you, so you listen to men who allay your fear of it.

Nehemiah6 · Feb 17, 2018

FlSnookman7 said:

Instead of criticizing those who expose the lies of Ellis, Prince, and others, why don't you tell us what the book of Job teaches about Satan -- quoting the exact Scriptures and then explaining what they mean as you understand them? When someone makes a habit of cutting and pasting false teachings, then they and their "idols" (the false teachers) need to be exposed. There are many people who come here and may not even have a clue about what is the truth.

Depleted · Feb 17, 2018

FlSnookman7 said:

Why not? It is easy to see whats happening. It is among other things ugly, non-edifying and certainly not Christian. If anyone dares disagree with what 4 or 5 have decided is the only correct interpretation of God's Word then they are branded as heretics or worse and anytime they post or comment the same few people search for any way to attack. These people have not known the freedom only Jesus gives and get enraged by those who do know Him. They would have us all attend a mandatory hour or two of church then spend the rest of our time in bondage to guilt and self recrimination. Walking around feeling guilty all the time is NOT the life Jesus wants for us. He wants us to take rest in Him and have faith that He has done what He says He has done. We are to love one another and lift up one another. If someone has been healed or has a certain spiritual gift we should be joyful for them and glorify God with them, not mock them and let our flesh rule the show with envy and pride.

I understand why they do this, it's a lack of faith that results in a lack of a true relationship with Jesus. I do pray for them every day and I usually do not comment on said behavior but it is just becoming too ugly. We are supposed to be brothers and sisters in Christ. That should mean we are a part of a greater whole and when we beat down, are rude to or just attack any part of that body what we are really doing is making that body weaker and in doing hurting ourselves. What do you think a person "on the fence" about Christianity thinks when they see the rudeness some Christians treat each other with?

You can say "but if we love someone we must tell them the truth" all you want but to be sarcastic, ugly and rude under the guise of spreading truth has a name and it sure isn't Christianity.

Nice game! You haven't answered my question either.

Why not? Because you too are puffing up the anti-christian BS being promoted.

joaniemarie · Feb 17, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Here's one of the thousands of promises we have about how much we can trust we are not going to be destroyed by God. Because we are loved and will always be loved as long as our Great High Priest lives... and He lives forever after the power of an endless life. As long as Jesus is our Mediator we will always be safe and sound righteous and accepted in the Beloved. Hebrews 6:10-20
[SUP]

10 [/SUP]For God is not unrighteous to forget or overlook your labor and the love which you have shown for His name’s sake in ministering to the needs of the saints (His own consecrated people), as you still do.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]But we do [[SUP][a][/SUP]strongly and earnestly] desire for each of you to show the same diligence and sincerity [all the way through] in realizing and enjoying the full assurance and development of [your] hope until the end,
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]In order that you may not grow disinterested and become [spiritual] sluggards, but imitators, behaving as do those who through faith ([SUP][b][/SUP]by their leaning of the entire personality on God in Christ in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness) and by practice of patient endurance and waiting are [now] inheriting the promises.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]For when God made [His] promise to Abraham, He swore by Himself, since He had no one greater by whom to swear,
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]Saying, Blessing I certainly will bless you and multiplying I will multiply you.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]And so it was that he [Abraham], having waited long and endured patiently, realized and obtained [in the birth of Isaac as a pledge of what was to come] what God had promised him.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]Men indeed swear by a greater [than themselves], and with them in all disputes the oath taken for confirmation is final [ending strife].
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]Accordingly God also, in His desire to show more convincingly and beyond doubt to those who were to inherit the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose and plan, intervened (mediated) with an oath.
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18 [/SUP]This was so that, by two unchangeable things [His promise and His oath] in which it is impossible for God ever to prove false or deceive us, we who have fled [to Him] for refuge might have mighty indwelling strength and strong encouragement to grasp and hold fast the hope appointed for us and set before [us].
[SUP]
19 [/SUP][Now] we have this [hope] as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul [it cannot slip and it cannot [SUP][c][/SUP]break down under whoever steps out upon it—a hope] that reaches [SUP][d][/SUP]farther and enters into [the very certainty of the Presence] within the veil,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Where Jesus has entered in for us [in advance], a Forerunner having become a High Priest forever after the order (with [SUP][e][/SUP]the rank) of Melchizedek.

Very thankful for the iron clad promises God has made and wrote for us to read in the Bible and be assured of. We have His love and favor in Christ.

joaniemarie · Feb 17, 2018

joaniemarie said:

And then on to Hebrews 7:15-27 Speaks of Jesus our Great High Priest and the oath and promise God made. He didn't have to make an oath to us or swear by Himself for us. But He did so we can be assured even more so how much He has given us in His Son and how much we can count on the guarantee of the One who is our Guarantor (Jesus)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And this becomes more plainly evident when another Priest arises Who bears the likeness of Melchizedek,
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]Who has been constituted a Priest, not on the basis of a bodily legal requirement [an externally imposed command concerning His physical ancestry], but on the basis of the power of an endless and indestructible Life.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For it is witnessed of Him, You are a Priest forever after the order (with the rank) of Melchizedek.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]So a previous physical regulation and command is cancelled because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness—
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]For the Law never made anything perfect—but instead a better hope is introduced through which we [now] come close to God.
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]And it was not without the taking of an oath [that Christ was made Priest],
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]For those who formerly became priests received their office without its being confirmed by the taking of an oath by God, but this One was designated and addressed and saluted with an oath, The Lord has sworn and will not regret it or change His mind, You are a Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]In keeping with [the oath’s greater strength and force], Jesus has become the Guarantee of a better (stronger) agreement [a more excellent and more advantageous covenant].
[SUP]
23 [/SUP][Again, the former successive line of priests] was made up of many, because they were each prevented by death from continuing [perpetually in office];
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]But He holds His priesthood unchangeably, because He lives on forever.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them.
[SUP]
26 [/SUP][Here is] the High Priest [perfectly adapted] to our needs, as was fitting—holy, blameless, unstained by sin, separated from sinners, and exalted higher than the heavens.
[SUP]
27 [/SUP]He has no day by day necessity, as [do each of these other] high priests, to offer sacrifice first of all for his own [personal] sins and then for those of the people, because He [met all the requirements] once for all when He brought Himself [as a sacrifice] which He offered up.

More verses about the love and security and steadfastness of God in Christ for us.

joaniemarie · Feb 17, 2018

[FONT=&quot]Even though we don't see eye to eye on certain subjects such as Job and healing in the atonement. Many people will say we are nuts for believing literally the promises in the Bible. But that is what it takes to be able to live them out. We are called to live by faith that Jesus is real in our day to day lives. Heb.11:1 And yes, it does go against human reasoning and what is revealed to our natural senses.
[/FONT]
11 Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [SUP][a][/SUP]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].[FONT=&quot]

His promises do not depend on our meager human weaknesses and our lack of dependability. His dependability is where we need to go and He is always dependable to do what He says He will do. He will over take those weaknesses we have FOR us. Our flesh can and will over come us when we depend on it. I've learned I cannot depend on myself for anything.

I've also learned that for lack of the knowledge of the truth and believing it., many Christians (myself included) although they are sincere in their beliefs have perished or are perishing for lack of knowledge of the truth. As you can read here on this thread alone.,, many Christians are sincere in their belief that God is going to purge them., steal from them and even kill them should they not be faithful enough or please Him enough.

Or worse yet that God will teach us by whipping us into submission. Jesus is not even a factor in some of these cases as far as their understanding goes. They don't know Jesus has saved them from all condemnation and judgment.

I've discovered that God in Christ loves us into submission. He doesn't need to beat the sheep or get behind us and herd us with a whip. No., He is our Good Shepherd and He goes before the sheep., leading us. And the sheep "follow" of their own free will. No whips., no cattle prods. We are sheep., we are not cattle. The Holy Spirit never forces us to do anything.

It's not foolish or off the rails to be a willing participant in the process. Here is Psalms 23. It's not for the dead but for us living today. We won't need help in heaven., we need help now., we need wisdom., healing, leading., comfort, safety., and all those things pertaining to life and Godliness today in the here and now while we are on this pilgrim journey. (and we have it by faith and following)

Many of us Christians look at God as if He never sent Jesus. The Bible says if we want to see the Father we NEED to look at the Son. We are in the new covenant. The old is gone the new is here. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. Many Christians are like me I've sadly found out.

I didn't even know the ministry of the Holy Spirit in my life except maybe to show me how to understand the Bible. Until only a few years ago I didn't even allow the Holy Spirit's power to flourish in my life. I was sorely lacking knowledge of the truth about the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the love and grace of God.

The Bible says God has not given us a spirit of fear but of POWER and LOVE and a SOUND MIND. Those things were already given to us when we got saved. We work out what Jesus has worked in us. The fruit will come out of us when we daily learn how to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. For many of us walking in the flesh is not about blatant sins like murder or cheating and stealing or adultery. We Christians are not doing that.

But what we ARE doing is walking in the flesh by living fearful lives and insisting on pulling ourselves up by our own bootstraps having a "God helps those who help themselves" kind of attitude. God helps the helpless and the needy. And when we see that., we become sheep who follow after for all they are and need.

[/FONT][SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
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3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.

Ariel82 · Feb 17, 2018

God promises His people tribulatiom and that His people need to pick up their cross and follow Him....Satan promises you the kingdoms and wealth of the world if you only worship him.

Who do You worship?

Are You a suffering servant willing to wash another person's feet?

Yes I am a Princess because I am daughter of the King of Kings, but my Father taught me to be humble and willing to do anything if it will show His love to others. If we past the test, then our testimony will be used to overcome the evil forces that seek to enslave others.

*******

Acts 14:22 ESV
Strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

James 1:2-8 ESV
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.

Romans 5:3 ESV
More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance

James 1:12 ESV
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

Angela53510 · Feb 17, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Griffindor said:

FlSnookman7 said:

I’ll say one clear thing about Joanie. I write Scripture, she writes “interpretation” without even quoting the verses or looking at them. Many others write Scriptures, Joanie quotes her favourite false teachers, who didn’t quote the Bible in the first place. Yes, sometimes we have different interpretations of a piece of Scripture. The problem is that no matter how much many of us try to make Joanie and others look at the actual words, in CONTEXT, we never get an honest interpretation using the verses. We get bad opinions, or even worse, outright heresy, like this thread.

Joanie, you clearly stated that you agree with Paul Ellis in this OP, which uses no Scripture. 12 pages later, with a lot more than 4 or 5 people showing you the actual verses from the Bible, all we get are opinions and more quotes from a lying false prophet.

The fact is, I don’t care so much about your subpar interpretation of Scripture, I care more about the newbies, the people who read these posts and aren’t members being able to read the words of the Bible, not your heretical opinions. People have posted repeatedly the first chapters of Job. You have never even replied. I and others have posted the final verses of Job, on who God is, and who God says he is, and you have not replied.

The cumulative effect is that you are not a victim, but a promoter of lies which come directly from the devil. Who, I assume, got permission from God to try one more time to deceive and twist the words of the Bible through your unbiblical opinion.

@Griffendor, time to go back to Harry Potter fantasy land. I have noted in my posts that seminary is not important when you are reading Job. In fact, I have urged people to read Job in its entirety, you will get a different viewpoint than the one espoused by Joanie. Just read the Bible! This issues is so straightforward you don’t need Hebrew. Just read that God DID give his permission to Satan to basically torture Satan! Not possible? Well, as someone who has been there, done that, and learned more about God, his love and mercy than during all the years I was a shallow, seeking God for things, kind of Christian.

By the way, Griffendor, and your first post, who said anything about seminary in this whole thread? Sounds like a banned member returning with a BIG chip on his shoulder. I will have to sent a note to the mods about the first post jumping out of the blocks, condemning not the wrong interpretation of the OP, but people who have been to seminary, when it wasn’t even brought up in this post. Oh, and you can certainly be filled with the Holy Spirit and have gone to seminary. I know many people who are. In fact, I distrust people without a proper seminary education, because this OP is exactly what you get. Lies from the devil!

@Fisnookman, same to you as I said to Joanie! Where are the Scriptures? If you agree with this lie in the OP, then let us discuss it properly, let’s look at what Bible says. Anything, else, I agree is “interpretation”. Job is so straightforward, a child could read it and understand. In case you do not understand the discussion, here is what Joanie posted that Paul Ellis said, here is what the Bible says,

”1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.
The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).” JM from PE

”Now the day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord—and Satan also arrived among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” And Satan answered the Lord, “From roving about on the earth, and from walking back and forth across it.” 8 So the Lordsaid to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth, a pure and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil.”[FONT=&quot]9 Then Satan answered the Lord, “Is it for nothing that Job fears God? 10 Have you not made a hedge around him and his household and all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock have increased in the land. 11 But extend your hand and strike everything he has, and he will no doubt curse you to your face!”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 So the Lord said to Satan, “All right then, everything he has is in your power. Only do not extend your hand against the man himself!” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.” Job 1:7-12
[/FONT]
“Again the day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also arrived among them to present himself before the Lord. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “Where do you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roving about on the earth, and from walking back and forth across it.” 3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a pure and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil. And he still holds firmly to his integrity, so that you stirred me up to destroy him without reason.”[FONT=&quot]4 But Satan answered the Lord, “Skin for skin! Indeed, a man will give up all that he has to save his life! 5 But extend your hand and strike his bone and his flesh, and he will no doubt curse you to your face!”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 So the Lord said to Satan, “All right, he is in your power; only preserve his life.” Job 2:1-6

I don’t know what the sentence “So the Lord said to Satan, “All right, he is in your power; only preserve his life,” means, if it is not God giving Satan permission to go a step forward in Job being attacked by him, always limiting what Satan can do.

It doesn’t get more plain, how wrong Joanie and Paul Ellis are. Read the whole book, if you don’t believe me. Sometimes in this life, we suffer. God does not have to explain himself. God can work incredible things through suffering. This is not an interpretation, these are the words of the actual Bible.

Here’s a non-Job verse to counter this one from Paul Ellis, oops, I mean Joanie. From Paul, the apostle, who knew what philipsis was - tribulation/affliction. And Paul is clear, suffering produces character which gives us hope. No need for denying the Bible to justify God doesn’t allow “faith filled” (and I used that term loosely!) Christians to suffer. We ALL suffer in this life. The world is still fallen, we await the return of Christ.

”3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character[/FONT]

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

[FONT=&quot]“[/FONT]More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not disappoint, because God’s love has been poured out to the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.” Romans 5:3-5[FONT=&quot]

One short passage to refute this hypergrace heresy. No need for a seminary education, just read the Bible.

Or, you can skip ahead in Romans and read how suffering and sickness will be done, when the Creation is renewed and Jesus returns.

”[/FONT]For I consider that our present sufferings cannot even be compared to the coming glory that will be revealed to us. 19 For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility—not willingly but because of God who subjected it—in hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of decay into the glorious freedom of God’s children. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers together until now. 23 Not only this, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we eagerly await our adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope, because who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with endurance.” Romans 8:18-25. [FONT=&quot]

We await eagerly IN ENDURANCE, (the same word as in Romans 5:3) to be set free from the bondage of decay, when Christ returns. As for now, not only we, but the WHOLE CREATION groans and suffers! Do they teach you this in Word Faith churches and schools? Nope! Feel free to read all of Romans 8 to see the truth. Well, feel free to read all of Romans see the truth of these lies from PE and his minions like Joanie. In fact, feel free to read the whole Bible. It will really help you understand who God is, instead of lies from people with - oh- no Bible Education or training.

Finally, Fisnookman, you need to pray for the people posting heresy after heresy, that they will repent of their horrible sins of lying and deceiving the people of God. I have been trying for 2 of Joanie’s profiles to help her escape from this demonic cult, she constantly posts. I used to talk kindly with her, in pms. I guess she didn’t like what I had to say, she wouldn’t talk to me when she returned.

And, there is nothing, NO NOTHING, more hurtful to a sick person, who loves God with all their heart, and tries to spend all their time serving him, than to tell them they made the choice to be sick and not healed.

That is something that Joanie Marie and others will be responsible for on Judgment Day. I am certain these people do it to people in real life, too. The saving and glorious gospel is about salvation from sins, now, and in the future, and renewed earth, and no more crying or tears. Why would John put this at the end of time, if we can claim it now, in the 21st century? When the new heaven and earth happen, that is when our tears will be dried!

”[/FONT]Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had ceased to exist, and the sea existed no more. 2 And I saw the holy city—the new Jerusalem—descending out of heaven from God, made ready like a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Look! The residence of God is among human beings. He will live among them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will not exist any more—or mourning, or crying, or pain, for the former things have ceased to exist.” Rev. 21:1-4

Rosemaryx · Feb 17, 2018

Angela53510 said:

I’ll say one clear thing about Joanie. I write Scripture, she writes “interpretation” without even quoting the verses or looking at them. Many others write Scriptures, Joanie quotes her favourite false teachers, who didn’t quote the Bible in the first place. Yes, sometimes we have different interpretations of a piece of Scripture. The problem is that no matter how much many of us try to make Joanie and others look at the actual words, in CONTEXT, we never get an honest interpretation using the verses. We get bad opinions, or even worse, outright heresy, like this thread.

Joanie, you clearly stated that you agree with Paul Ellis in this OP, which uses no Scripture. 12 pages later, with a lot more than 4 or 5 people showing you the actual verses from the Bible, all we get are opinions and more quotes from a lying false prophet.

The fact is, I don’t care so much about your subpar interpretation of Scripture, I care more about the newbies, the people who read these posts and aren’t members being able to read the words of the Bible, not your heretical opinions. People have posted repeatedly the first chapters of Job. You have never even replied. I and others have posted the final verses of Job, on who God is, and who God says he is, and you have not replied.

The cumulative effect is that you are not a victim, but a promoter of lies which come directly from the devil. Who, I assume, got permission from God to try one more time to deceive and twist the words of the Bible through your unbiblical opinion.

@Griffendor, time to go back to Harry Potter fantasy land. I have noted in my posts that seminary is not important when you are reading Job. In fact, I have urged people to read Job in its entirety, you will get a different viewpoint than the one espoused by Joanie. Just read the Bible! This issues is so straightforward you don’t need Hebrew. Just read that God DID give his permission to Satan to basically torture Satan! Not possible? Well, as someone who has been there, done that, and learned more about God, his love and mercy than during all the years I was a shallow, seeking God for things, kind of Christian.

By the way, Griffendor, and your first post, who said anything about seminary in this whole thread? Sounds like a banned member returning with a BIG chip on his shoulder. I will have to sent a note to the mods about the first post jumping out of the blocks, condemning not the wrong interpretation of the OP, but people who have been to seminary, when it wasn’t even brought up in this post. Oh, and you can certainly be filled with the Holy Spirit and have gone to seminary. I know many people who are. In fact, I distrust people without a proper seminary education, because this OP is exactly what you get. Lies from the devil!

@Fisnookman, same to you as I said to Joanie! Where are the Scriptures? If you agree with this lie in the OP, then let us discuss it properly, let’s look at what Bible says. Anything, else, I agree is “interpretation”. Job is so straightforward, a child could read it and understand. In case you do not understand the discussion, here is what Joanie posted that Paul Ellis said, here is what the Bible says,

”1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.
The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).” JM from PE

”Now the day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord—and Satan also arrived among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” And Satan answered the Lord, “From roving about on the earth, and from walking back and forth across it.” 8 So the Lordsaid to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth, a pure and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil.”9 Then Satan answered the Lord, “Is it for nothing that Job fears God? 10 Have you not made a hedge around him and his household and all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock have increased in the land. 11 But extend your hand and strike everything he has, and he will no doubt curse you to your face!”
12 So the Lord said to Satan, “All right then, everything he has is in your power. Only do not extend your hand against the man himself!” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.” Job 1:7-12

“Again the day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also arrived among them to present himself before the Lord. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “Where do you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roving about on the earth, and from walking back and forth across it.” 3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a pure and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil. And he still holds firmly to his integrity, so that you stirred me up to destroy him without reason.”4 But Satan answered the Lord, “Skin for skin! Indeed, a man will give up all that he has to save his life! 5 But extend your hand and strike his bone and his flesh, and he will no doubt curse you to your face!”
6 So the Lord said to Satan, “All right, he is in your power; only preserve his life.” Job 2:1-6

I don’t know what the sentence “So the Lord said to Satan, “All right, he is in your power; only preserve his life,” means, if it is not God giving Satan permission to go a step forward in Job being attacked by him, always limiting what Satan can do.

It doesn’t get more plain, how wrong Joanie and Paul Ellis are. Read the whole book, if you don’t believe me. Sometimes in this life, we suffer. God does not have to explain himself. God can work incredible things through suffering. This is not an interpretation, these are the words of the actual Bible.

Here’s a non-Job verse to counter this one from Paul Ellis, oops, I mean Joanie. From Paul, the apostle, who knew what philipsis was - tribulation/affliction. And Paul is clear, suffering produces character which gives us hope. No need for denying the Bible to justify God doesn’t allow “faith filled” (and I used that term loosely!) Christians to suffer. We ALL suffer in this life. The world is still fallen, we await the return of Christ.

”3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

“More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not disappoint, because God’s love has been poured out to the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.” Romans 5:3-5

One short passage to refute this hypergrace heresy. No need for a seminary education, just read the Bible.

Or, you can skip ahead in Romans and read how suffering and sickness will be done, when the Creation is renewed and Jesus returns.

”For I consider that our present sufferings cannot even be compared to the coming glory that will be revealed to us. 19 For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility—not willingly but because of God who subjected it—in hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of decay into the glorious freedom of God’s children. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers together until now. 23 Not only this, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we eagerly await our adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope, because who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with endurance.” Romans 8:18-25.

We await eagerly IN ENDURANCE, (the same word as in Romans 5:3) to be set free from the bondage of decay, when Christ returns. As for now, not only we, but the WHOLE CREATION groans and suffers! Do they teach you this in Word Faith churches and schools? Nope! Feel free to read all of Romans 8 to see the truth. Well, feel free to read all of Romans see the truth of these lies from PE and his minions like Joanie. In fact, feel free to read the whole Bible. It will really help you understand who God is, instead of lies from people with - oh- no Bible Education or training.

Finally, Fisnookman, you need to pray for the people posting heresy after heresy, that they will repent of their horrible sins of lying and deceiving the people of God. I have been trying for 2 of Joanie’s profiles to help her escape from this demonic cult, she constantly posts. I used to talk kindly with her, in pms. I guess she didn’t like what I had to say, she wouldn’t talk to me when she returned.

And, there is nothing, NO NOTHING, more hurtful to a sick person, who loves God with all their heart, and tries to spend all their time serving him, than to tell them they made the choice to be sick and not healed.

That is something that Joanie Marie and others will be responsible for on Judgment Day. I am certain these people do it to people in real life, too. The saving and glorious gospel is about salvation from sins, now, and in the future, and renewed earth, and no more crying or tears. Why would John put this at the end of time, if we can claim it now, in the 21st century? When the new heaven and earth happen, that is when our tears will be dried!

”Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had ceased to exist, and the sea existed no more. 2 And I saw the holy city—the new Jerusalem—descending out of heaven from God, made ready like a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Look! The residence of God is among human beings. He will live among them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will not exist any more—or mourning, or crying, or pain, for the former things have ceased to exist.” Rev. 21:1-4

Thanks for posting with Scriptures...Lovely read...xox...

Stunnedbygrace · Feb 17, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Even though we don't see eye to eye on certain subjects such as Job and healing in the atonement. Many people will say we are nuts for believing literally the promises in the Bible. But that is what it takes to be able to live them out. We are called to live by faith that Jesus is real in our day to day lives. Heb.11:1 And yes, it does go against human reasoning and what is revealed to our natural senses.

11 Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [SUP][a][/SUP]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

His promises do not depend on our meager human weaknesses and our lack of dependability. His dependability is where we need to go and He is always dependable to do what He says He will do. He will over take those weaknesses we have FOR us. Our flesh can and will over come us when we depend on it. I've learned I cannot depend on myself for anything.

I've also learned that for lack of the knowledge of the truth and believing it., many Christians (myself included) although they are sincere in their beliefs have perished or are perishing for lack of knowledge of the truth. As you can read here on this thread alone.,, many Christians are sincere in their belief that God is going to purge them., steal from them and even kill them should they not be faithful enough or please Him enough.

Or worse yet that God will teach us by whipping us into submission. Jesus is not even a factor in some of these cases as far as their understanding goes. They don't know Jesus has saved them from all condemnation and judgment.

I've discovered that God in Christ loves us into submission. He doesn't need to beat the sheep or get behind us and herd us with a whip. No., He is our Good Shepherd and He goes before the sheep., leading us. And the sheep "follow" of their own free will. No whips., no cattle prods. We are sheep., we are not cattle. The Holy Spirit never forces us to do anything.

It's not foolish or off the rails to be a willing participant in the process. Here is Psalms 23. It's not for the dead but for us living today. We won't need help in heaven., we need help now., we need wisdom., healing, leading., comfort, safety., and all those things pertaining to life and Godliness today in the here and now while we are on this pilgrim journey. (and we have it by faith and following)

Many of us Christians look at God as if He never sent Jesus. The Bible says if we want to see the Father we NEED to look at the Son. We are in the new covenant. The old is gone the new is here. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. Many Christians are like me I've sadly found out.

I didn't even know the ministry of the Holy Spirit in my life except maybe to show me how to understand the Bible. Until only a few years ago I didn't even allow the Holy Spirit's power to flourish in my life. I was sorely lacking knowledge of the truth about the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the love and grace of God.

The Bible says God has not given us a spirit of fear but of POWER and LOVE and a SOUND MIND. Those things were already given to us when we got saved. We work out what Jesus has worked in us. The fruit will come out of us when we daily learn how to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. For many of us walking in the flesh is not about blatant sins like murder or cheating and stealing or adultery. We Christians are not doing that.

But what we ARE doing is walking in the flesh by living fearful lives and insisting on pulling ourselves up by our own bootstraps having a "God helps those who help themselves" kind of attitude. God helps the helpless and the needy. And when we see that., we become sheep who follow after for all they are and need.

[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.

I actually agree with much of what you've said here JM.
But there are some things you don't understand yet. And you are not the first to be shown the things you DO understand thus far.

He has a lot of things to tell you but you aren't able to bear them yet.

oldethennew · Feb 17, 2018

that He 'hates'...

Speak2Me · Feb 17, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Even though we don't see eye to eye on certain subjects such as Job and healing in the atonement. Many people will say we are nuts for believing literally the promises in the Bible. But that is what it takes to be able to live them out. We are called to live by faith that Jesus is real in our day to day lives. Heb.11:1 And yes, it does go against human reasoning and what is revealed to our natural senses.

11 Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [SUP][a][/SUP]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

His promises do not depend on our meager human weaknesses and our lack of dependability. His dependability is where we need to go and He is always dependable to do what He says He will do. He will over take those weaknesses we have FOR us. Our flesh can and will over come us when we depend on it. I've learned I cannot depend on myself for anything.

I've also learned that for lack of the knowledge of the truth and believing it., many Christians (myself included) although they are sincere in their beliefs have perished or are perishing for lack of knowledge of the truth. As you can read here on this thread alone.,, many Christians are sincere in their belief that God is going to purge them., steal from them and even kill them should they not be faithful enough or please Him enough.

Or worse yet that God will teach us by whipping us into submission. Jesus is not even a factor in some of these cases as far as their understanding goes. They don't know Jesus has saved them from all condemnation and judgment.

I've discovered that God in Christ loves us into submission. He doesn't need to beat the sheep or get behind us and herd us with a whip. No., He is our Good Shepherd and He goes before the sheep., leading us. And the sheep "follow" of their own free will. No whips., no cattle prods. We are sheep., we are not cattle. The Holy Spirit never forces us to do anything.

It's not foolish or off the rails to be a willing participant in the process. Here is Psalms 23. It's not for the dead but for us living today. We won't need help in heaven., we need help now., we need wisdom., healing, leading., comfort, safety., and all those things pertaining to life and Godliness today in the here and now while we are on this pilgrim journey. (and we have it by faith and following)

Many of us Christians look at God as if He never sent Jesus. The Bible says if we want to see the Father we NEED to look at the Son. We are in the new covenant. The old is gone the new is here. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. Many Christians are like me I've sadly found out.

I didn't even know the ministry of the Holy Spirit in my life except maybe to show me how to understand the Bible. Until only a few years ago I didn't even allow the Holy Spirit's power to flourish in my life. I was sorely lacking knowledge of the truth about the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the love and grace of God.

The Bible says God has not given us a spirit of fear but of POWER and LOVE and a SOUND MIND. Those things were already given to us when we got saved. We work out what Jesus has worked in us. The fruit will come out of us when we daily learn how to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. For many of us walking in the flesh is not about blatant sins like murder or cheating and stealing or adultery. We Christians are not doing that.

But what we ARE doing is walking in the flesh by living fearful lives and insisting on pulling ourselves up by our own bootstraps having a "God helps those who help themselves" kind of attitude. God helps the helpless and the needy. And when we see that., we become sheep who follow after for all they are and need.

[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.

Stunnedbygrace said:

I'm having trouble figuring out which you are trying to restore, her salvation, or her reputation as a victim.

Birds of a feather, I always say.

You'd have to be freegrace to agree with most of what She said.

Speak2Me · Feb 17, 2018

oldethennew said:

???????????????????

Stunnedbygrace · Feb 17, 2018

Speak2Me said:

First, I said I agreed with much of what she said in that particular post. You changed the word to " most."
Second, I have no idea what you are saying in the rest of your post. Literally, no clue.

Some common misconceptions about God;

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