some things from paul that many omit

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notmyown

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May 26, 2016
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Hi notmyown,

I just want to caution here because I don't think we can find this in God's word. We are told not to forsake assembling
together. A person can get together with other believers without it being a formal church gathering.

Here's the scripture in Hebrews 10.

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

There are many who have left their local churches to meet together in homes. The exhortation rather than command is to continue to fellowship with other believers.

At this time in history they were meeting in homes and they were meeting daily.

we used to attend a home church. :D
there was a plurality of elders, and we were accountable outside of our home church, as i believe we are adjured to be in the Scriptures.

i count it as a local church, don't you? :)
 

Blik

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Dec 6, 2016
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If we would believe all the Lord, Christ, and Paul tells us there would be universal agreement. From Genesis to Revelation there is agreement. Paul told us he was and remained a Pharisee and a Jew. He spoke Greek, but he thought in Hebrew as he had been trained in the very best school. Through Christ, Paul knew what came from scripture and what came from men's interpretation of scripture. Paul disagreed with interpretation, but never with Christ or the Father.

It is only through blood and grace that we are accepted and forgiven.

Our sin that we accept in ourselves causes a separation between us and God.

If you see any disagreement in scripture it is not scripture but your understanding. Words sometimes meant different things 2,000 years ago, wrote with the understanding of words from his age, not ours. Our words change in meaning even today like cool, gay, iron curtain, net, mouse, etc.
 
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Paul said you can live godly in this mortal body...keep arguing in favour of sin..all can see it, and some will come out of the delusion that are hungering and thirsting for righteousness. If you want to number yourself among the sinners then so be it..remember it is the faith once delivered to the saints...You seem to confuse that with the faith that was once delivered to the sinners...sinners and saints are the OPPOSITE. Its on almost every page of the bible. Even Psalms 14 & 51, where Paul quoted God who says none among the wicked that don't believe in God can do any good, then it is contrasted against the righteous. You always seem to desire to number yourself among the wicked. I don't understand why.....Noah never did that..He was empowered by the Spirit to walk morally upright (perfect in his generations)..The wicked seek out evil schemes...

we still have to follow the spirit, the word of God. but heres another example why certain folks believe as they do

another jp quote...."There are still people who insist that we have to preach on repentance. Well, I DISAGREE! I think we should do it God’s way – preach the goodness of God and allow the goodness of God to lead people to repentance."


apparently Jesus who preached repentance, Peter who preached repentance, paul who preached repentance..as well as every other man of God preached, they simply didnt understand "Gods way"......like every false teacher will tell people because they have a special understanding that you need to purchase in thier newest book. for $19.95 you can know the real truth of it all....


Jesus ..matthew 4:17"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, REPENT: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."


Luke 13:5"I tell you, Nay: but, EXCEPT YE REPENT, ye shall all likewise perish."


Paul.... acts 26:19-20 "Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should REPENT and turn to God, and DO WORKS meet for REPENTANCE. "


Paul...acts 17:30-31 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now COMMANDETH ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT: BECAUSE he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."


Paul...acts 20:21"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."


Peter..Acts 3:18-20 "But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19 REPENT YE therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you"




the way He twists His teachings it makes you think well if someone is preaching repentance, they are not preaching the goodness of God, His entire doctrine is cleverly designed to OMIT whatever doesnt fit His books, rather than accept the truth.


a few other Quotes " Grace is a person his name is Jesus"


this is also absolutely unbiblical. Jesus has many names and never once is He called Grace Grace is an attribute of Gods character, He is gracious, He is also Just, He is Holy and righteous, He is also very clear about the fact that repentance is essential.


Grace doesnt nullify the truth, Grace can easily be made of no effect when it turns away from truth. the Man on the cross is the omportant part, the cross was a device for the death of a criminal. The man who died upon it is where our faith HAS to be. and the things He taught "the gospel" is where our faith resides and comes from " Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God"

Grace doesnt change if we obey God or not, its Just Like noah who was saved by Grace and through Faith, and became the heir of the righteousness of faith. He believed Gods Word and obeyed Gods commands to Him, He did the work BECAUSE of Faith.
 
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FreeNChrist

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Jesus; "My grace is sufficient" 2 Cor 12:9
 
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Trying to separate grace from Jesus is like trying to separate wet from the water. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Jesus and He is also called the Spirit of grace. Grace is a personified in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 10:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Acts 16:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] They passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them;

 
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Here is an excellent article talking about this subject. I like to use this website from time to time as it has at the bottom where people have asked questions. Sometimes I learn more from that as we all have similar questions sometimes.

If this conflicts with your religious beliefs - I will not call you a heretic if you disagree...:)

Jesus is everything!

Is Grace a Person?

People sometimes ask me, “Why do you say grace is another name for Jesus?” or “Why do you say grace is a Person?” They are referring to something I wrote in my book The Gospel in Twenty Questions:

Grace isn’t a bunch of rules for you to keep. And grace is not God’s lubricant for greasing the cogs of self effort. Grace is a Person living his life through you. Living under grace is like being married, only more so. It’s the adventure of life shared with Christ. (p.2)

Of course, I am not the only one who says grace is a Person. Grace is not a theology. It is not a subject matter. It is not a doctrine. It is a person, and his name is Jesus. That’s the reason the Lord wants you to receive the abundance of grace, for to have the abundance of grace is to have the abundance of Jesus. (Destined to Reign, p.24)

It says that the law is impersonal and was given (suggesting an arms-length transaction), while grace is personal and came when Jesus came (John 1:17). That sounds good to me, but some people find this weird.

“You make it sound like there’s a fourth member of the Trinity called Grace.”

We’re simply saying that God gives us his grace through his Son. Jesus came full of grace from the One who sits on the throne of grace. He is the personification of the Father’s grace. No Jesus, no grace. Know Jesus, know grace.

“But isn’t it weird to say grace has a personality?”

Maybe, but it’s not without Biblical basis. In Romans Paul describes sin as having a personality. He says sin is a noun (not a verb) characterized by desires and an agenda. In fact, everything the Bible says about sin is true of Satan. Both sin and Satan seek to devour us (Gen 4:7, 1 Pet 5:8) and kill us (Rom 7:11, John 8:44), and both have been defeated by Jesus (Heb 9:26, John 12:31).




Just as sin is synonymous with Satan, grace is synonymous with Jesus. Here are eighteen reasons why.

Why is grace another name for Jesus?


  1. The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus (Acts 20:24, 2 Th 1:8).


  1. We are saved by grace (Eph 2:5); we are saved by Jesus (2 Tim 1:9).


  1. We are justified by grace (Rom 3:24); we are justified by Jesus (Rom 4:25).


  1. Grace helps us; Jesus helps us (Heb 4:16).


  1. God’s grace offers salvation to all (Tit 2:11); Jesus is the Savior of all (1 Tim 4:10).


  1. God is love and love that stoops (or comes down) is grace; Jesus is the Father’s love come down (John 16:28).


  1. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ (Rom 8:9) and the Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29).


  1. All the blessings of God come to us by grace alone and all of them are found in Jesus (Eph 1:3).


  1. Grace is a teacher (Tit 2:12); Jesus is a teacher (Matt 8:19).


  1. Grace reigns (Rom 5:21); Jesus reigns (1 Cor 15:25).


  1. When the Galatians cut themselves off from Christ, they cut themselves off from grace (Gal 5:4).


  1. In the same way that God is love, Jesus is grace (see 2 Cor 13:14).


  1. The Bible speaks of “the love of God” and “the grace of Jesus” ( 1Cor 16:23, Rev 22:21).


  1. God’s grace is given in Christ Jesus” (1 Cor 1:4, Eph 1:6, 2 Tim 1:9, 2:1). Jesus is the embodiment of God’s grace.


  1. Here are two Biblical blessings that say the same thing: “The Lord be with you” and “grace be with you” (2 Tim 4:22, Phm 1:25).


  1. The Old Testament prophets foretold the coming of Jesus and the coming of grace (1 Pet 1:10). These weren’t two separate events. Grace came when Jesus came (John 1:17).


  1. To the degree that we know Jesus, we enjoy God’s grace (2 Pet 1:2)


  1. Jesus is the word of God and the word of his grace which can build you up (Act 20:32)




Why does it matter?

This matters a great deal because grace will not bear fruit in your life if you think it is merely a concept or a doctrine. As Judah Smith said recently:

We shudder at the term grace because it has been so maligned, so abused, so misrepresented. We see grace as the get out of jail free card. “Oh yeah, I love me some grace man. I get my jiggy on in the weekend then I come back on Sunday and get me my grace on.” No, that’s not grace. You’ve met a concept, not a Person.”

I regularly encounter people who don’t know what grace is so they misuse it or they attack it. Just the other day someone wrote to tell me that too much preaching on grace leads to wrongdoing. That’s simply not possible when you have a proper understanding of grace. Grace no more leads to wrongdoing than love for your spouse will lead you to Ashley Madison.

The other day I happened to catch a prominent TV evangelist tearing my stuff to shreds on his program. (Watched by millions!) It’s nice to be noticed but I was saddened that he was using his platform to disparage the only thing that can empower people to live well.

I occasionally get asked by pastors to come and preach a sermon or run a seminar on grace because they recognize it as a hot topic. It makes me wonder what they’re preaching when they’re not preaching grace. Jesus is not a “hot topic” or a buzzword to be slotted into your teaching schedule. He’s the Lover of our souls and the Center of Everything!

What grace is not

Grace is not a doctrine or a podcast or a tweet. Grace is not a season to walk through or a midweek seminar. Grace is not one aspect of God’s character to be balanced against his other, less gracious aspects.

Grace is a Person who loves you, died for you, and now lives for you. The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus – there is no difference.

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you!

Here is the link below if anyone is interested i9n looking at the questions.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/09/04/grace-is-a-person/
 
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eternally-gratefull

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you err in refusing to attend a local church. which kind of sin would that be?
Amen, paul said, do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together as is the manner of some.

So we have another sin he is caught in, will he repent?
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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Amen, paul said, do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together as is the manner of some.

So we have another sin he is caught in, will he repent?
well, he said he thought i was asking if he was Baptist, so i don't want to be too quick on the draw as i'd like mercy shown to me, too. :eek:

but i do sometimes wonder if Lone Ranger Christianity might explain some of the odd theology we see here. ;)
 
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willybob

Guest
G777

Thanks but no thanks,,,This is but more great swelling words of emptiness. More Penal Substitution rhetoric

Grace is 20 times in the NT KJV read and study each time in context the word is used and let the bible define itself...It means the empowerment of the Spirit that gives us the "energeo" to live godly and upright in this present world. Jesus Christ full of grace and truth.......Also pictures of Jesus is an abomination to God, 2nd commandment, especially feminine pictures or those popular Catholic transvestite type.......They draw pictures to accommodate their emotions because they live by sight and not faith.....the bible calls it the image of the beast that is manufactured in mans imagination, its for the purpose of releasing dopamine that sooths the conscience..
 
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Mar 28, 2016
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Hi notmyown,

I just want to caution here because I don't think we can find this in God's word. We are told not to forsake assembling
together. A person can get together with other believers without it being a formal church gathering.

Here's the scripture in Hebrews 10.

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

There are many who have left their local churches to meet together in homes. The exhortation rather than command is to continue to fellowship with other believers.

At this time in history they were meeting in homes and they were meeting daily.
The warning not to forsake assembling together had to do with Jews because of the time of reformation, it caused a tribulation now that Jews were no longer needed as types and shadows which pointed to the coming of Christ. The veil was rent scattering the Jews.

It was an encouragement to the fence sitters to join the Nazarene denomination or another sect that walked by the faith that comes from hearing God and therefore leave the sect they were under that did not walk by faith like Paul before he was converted (born again) In that way we know there is no such thing as no sect or non-denomination. The kingdom of God is not of this world, walking by faith looking for that city, as the bride of Christ (Christians) is walking by faith (the unseen eternal).

Where two or three are gathered together under his name as the final authority, he is there working in them to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness ..

 
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willybob

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The warning was not to forsake the assembly of the saints, not the organized assembly of professed sinners...saints and sinners are opposite...bible 101
 
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The warning was not to forsake the assembly of the saints, not the organized assembly of professed sinners...saints and sinners are opposite...bible 101
obviously sin is opposite righteousness, dark is opposite light, death is opposite life, truth is opposite fallacy...many doctrines these days though have deceived the mind and created a lens that cant distinguish good and evil, truth and lie. but it has been written all along even was evident in the early days of the gospel.

this has already happened and continues worse and worse today

2timothy4:3-4 "2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto FABLES."

it will end when everyone casts the truth away and the Word of God is taken from the earth. The Word of truth is who is holding Back lawlessness.

2 thessalonians 2:7-12 "
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."


its pretty evident these days that the time is really near because truth is not at all what people see good in, rather good is when no one bothers to speak the truth that saves people, what comforts now days is to tell people nothing really matters were all righteous and our sinful actions have zero to do with that. when wickedness is perceived as good there is Wrath on the horizon but like the flood, We have been ,made aware of what is coming for almost 2000 years.....
 
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G777

Thanks but no thanks,,,This is but more great swelling words of emptiness. More Penal Substitution rhetoric

Grace is 20 times in the NT KJV read and study each time in context the word is used and let the bible define itself...It means the empowerment of the Spirit that gives us the "energeo" to live godly and upright in this present world. Jesus Christ full of grace and truth.......Also pictures of Jesus is an abomination to God, 2nd commandment, especially feminine pictures or those popular Catholic transvestite type.......They draw pictures to accommodate their emotions because they live by sight and not faith.....the bible calls it the image of the beast that is manufactured in mans imagination, its for the purpose of releasing dopamine that sooths the conscience..

Grace is 20 times in the NT KJV read and study each time in context the word is used and let the bible define itself...It means the empowerment of the Spirit that gives us the "energeo" to live godly and upright in this present world. Jesus Christ full of grace and truth..


Letting the Bible define itself is exactly what christians need to do rather than ommiting anything they dont want it to actually mean. scripture defines Grace, not webster or any false teacher whos defininition then omits the rest of the word of God. But if you want to sell books, you have to create what people want to hear, Gods word has been rejected since the prophets began preaching repentance, ever since moses passed away. the prophets were stoned, beheaded, rejected , exiled, Jesus was crucified, the apostles were all martyred save John, not because they were preaching lawlessness and unconditional salvation, but because they were speaking the truth and the world is opposed to its creators word, thus, it is distorted and spread as "gods word" Im glad we have a reference point of truth or we would be at the mercy of whatever satan chose to tell us. sadly tho most reject the truth and follow a lie in whatever form it comes in.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
"Grace is realized through Jesus Christ" (John 1:17); the "grace of God was given to us in Christ Jesus” (1 Cor. 1:4); "The grace of God has appeared (in Jesus Christ), bringing salvation to all men" (Titus 2:11).

Our identity as Christians, is derived from our participation in the life of the risen Jesus, only by the grace of God (1 Cor. 15:10).

Anything other than a recognition of God's power of grace in the "finished work" of Jesus Christ, will inevitably result in some kind of self-effort that makes void the cross of Christ (1 Cor. 1:17)


“This grace of God is a very great, strong, mighty and active thing. It does not lie asleep in the soul. Grace hears, leads, drives, draws, changes, works all in man, and lets itself be distinctly felt and experienced. It is hidden, but its works are evident.”

― Martin Luther
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Trying to separate grace from Jesus is like trying to separate wet from the water. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Jesus and He is also called the Spirit of grace. Grace is a personified in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Christ was there when God created our world, Christ is NOT a new God! Grace is from the beginning of our time.

Jesus said to the Father: John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth.

There is not only no separation of grace from Jesus, but there is no separation of grace from the Father or the Holy Spirit. It is grace from God the Father with the blood of Jesus that mankind has always had atonement and salvation. It is in eternal time, or the heavenly dimension that is without time that this was always so, even when that blood was only a symbol of the eternal blood of Christ.

It is by knowing the entire truth that we know the triune God, it is not through Jesus alone.

 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Christ was there when God created our world, Christ is NOT a new God! Grace is from the beginning of our time.

Jesus said to the Father: John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth.

There is not only no separation of grace from Jesus, but there is no separation of grace from the Father or the Holy Spirit. It is grace from God the Father with the blood of Jesus that mankind has always had atonement and salvation. It is in eternal time, or the heavenly dimension that is without time that this was always so, even when that blood was only a symbol of the eternal blood of Christ.

It is by knowing the entire truth that we know the triune God, it is not through Jesus alone.

Of course, it is God's grace, and God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. And it is Jesus who became a man and in so doing is the very embodiment of God's grace.
 
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willybob

Guest
obviously sin is opposite righteousness, dark is opposite light, death is opposite life, truth is opposite fallacy...many doctrines these days though have deceived the mind and created a lens that cant distinguish good and evil, truth and lie. but it has been written all along even was evident in the early days of the gospel.

this has already happened and continues worse and worse today

2timothy4:3-4 "2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto FABLES."

it will end when everyone casts the truth away and the Word of God is taken from the earth. The Word of truth is who is holding Back lawlessness.

2 thessalonians 2:7-12 "
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."


its pretty evident these days that the time is really near because truth is not at all what people see good in, rather good is when no one bothers to speak the truth that saves people, what comforts now days is to tell people nothing really matters were all righteous and our sinful actions have zero to do with that. when wickedness is perceived as good there is Wrath on the horizon but like the flood, We have been ,made aware of what is coming for almost 2000 years.....

followjesus.....The major reason is the organized churches (Mystery Babylon) bring them in while still IN their sins...A real repentance and mourning through a godly season of sorrow doesn't take place, but rather a non biblical sinners prayer, thus the heart is not purged of guile and rebellion.....They have become naked in the sight of the non believing word around them like Ezekiel said in chapter 16..They cant even blush, but rather riot in the daylight proclaiming grace and liberty..
 
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willybob

Guest
Grace is the empowerment of the Spirit to live godly lives.....I can do all things in Christ Jesus...
 
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followjesus.....The major reason is the organized churches (Mystery Babylon) bring them in while still IN their sins...A real repentance and mourning through a godly season of sorrow doesn't take place, but rather a non biblical sinners prayer, thus the heart is not purged of guile and rebellion.....They have become naked in the sight of the non believing word around them like Ezekiel said in chapter 16..They cant even blush, but rather riot in the daylight proclaiming grace and liberty..
indeed i agree, that is the result of false doctrines like : the sinners prayer means you once saved always saved. there is nothoing left to teach, or call to repentance is we omit everything Gods word says about repentance and righteousness. doctrine being correct is the most important part of all of this. the simplicity is proven in eden God says one thing, satan asks " did God really say that?" then He offers His idea...the end is no different from the beginning, and yes i agree Grace is what sent the One who empowers us, we have nothing if not Gods truth. the word of God is what is active in us, it is what divides and judges our hearts and thoughts. when we end up rejecting all of the truth of Jesus Christ because it doesnt fit a radical grace doctrine which teaches clearly " if you do anything, you have falen from Gods grace" Because God has never been unclear abour reopentance, today is all about say nothing unless it makes a person feel great despite the sin in our lives. God Loves us at our worst, His Grace sent our savior, and the savior offers Gods true Grace along with the truth that calls us and empowers us/ Gods word believed in us becomes part of our mind and that leads us.

the holy spirit will always remind us of Jesus words according to Jesus.


its not about rejecting the things that are there to call us into real righteousness through reopentance, repentance comes because we understand Jesus was telling us the Truth. we have to accept Him as He put forth and there is mich reproach in His word toward the sin in us, we Just Love Him more so we Hear and follow and the word is our power," the sword of the spirit"