Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

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Dec 12, 2013
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yes
probably more

yes you can. would you kindly acknowledge that is my main gripe with people who abuse the gifts today?
I have never said otherwise.......I have always qualified my stance against tongues and the gifts based upon the modern practice and abuses......I for sure (based upon my family, friends and what I have seen and heard) do not believe the modern charismatic movement is correct. I do not believe one must speak in some mumbo jumbo or even another language to prove salvation.....I do not believe the Benny Hinn's of the world are valid, I do not believe bowling people over with a jacket and or being SLAIN in the spirit are biblical practices, I do not believe in so called modern miracle healers......if it was valid then every children's hospital should be empty....they should be at the hospitals healing every sick child that comes in........

At the end of the day I will be accused of being bias or blind to the truth and I can tell you that I do not shoot from the hip.....never have, never will.....Am I going to say that GOD will not use his gifts at particular places and or times in our age.....NO.....but for sure I do believe that most of what happens in churches today is carnal, not of GOD and contrary to the truth.....I cannot side step the use of vanish, fail and cease and THAT which is COMPLETE (PERFECT) used by PAUL in chapter 13......
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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let's be straight about you and your agenda and twisting of what others say

you accuse me of trying to say you are not saved, but take another look at that

if you say that by what I said regarding the spirit of your replies...insulting etc...then you have judged yourself when you say people who speak in tongues do so by the devil

you can conveniently try to state something new now, but the religious fervor with which you attack anyone who says they speak in tongues is far more convincing then your backpedaling is now

I cannot even say 'nice try' to this response. your posts have convinced people here otherwise of just what you do or perhaps I should say do not, believe

you have no idea what I may wish so maybe just take care of your own whatevers

you speak for no one but yourself. others who also disagree have never matched your vitriol
My belief that tongues are out of order in the church today has not changed. I have witnessed nothing here that convinces me of anything different because it has not been shown from the bible that the conduct espoused is sound doctrine.

Judgmental opinions from others have no weight without biblical evidence.

The prodigal must have struggled long and hard to face the truth that he had wasted his inheritance on husks. He lived his entire life with nothing of merit to show. Works of wood hay and stubble that when measured in the fire of the judgment seat of Christ simply perish.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,206
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I know this is a complicated thing for you to grasp...

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Judgmental opinions from others have no weight without biblical evidence.
Uh huh. Some things are self-evident.

If you are going to sign every post with "For the cause of Christ", then either you need to rein in your tongue considerably, or you will rightly be called a hypocrite. You aren't just slandering others here; you are slandering the One who died for you, because you are putting His name on your slander.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,016
2,506
113
Uh huh. Some things are self-evident.

If you are going to sign every post with "For the cause of Christ", then either you need to rein in your tongue considerably, or you will rightly be called a hypocrite. You aren't just slandering others here; you are slandering the One who died for you, because you are putting His name on your slander.
Why don't you address the biblical issue? If tongues are for today support your position from the bible. If you have a grasp on these doctrines then help the rest of us ignorant souls to become as wise as you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
7,739
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Uh huh. Some things are self-evident.

If you are going to sign every post with "For the cause of Christ", then either you need to rein in your tongue considerably, or you will rightly be called a hypocrite. You aren't just slandering others here; you are slandering the One who died for you, because you are putting His name on your slander.
As long as he THINKS he is right he does his bidding "for the cause...".
In his mind,the cause overrides truth itself.
That why he edits his bible "for the cause"
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
7,739
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My belief that tongues are out of order in the church today has not changed. I have witnessed nothing here that convinces me of anything different because it has not been shown from the bible that the conduct espoused is sound doctrine.

Judgmental opinions from others have no weight without biblical evidence.

The prodigal must have struggled long and hard to face the truth that he had wasted his inheritance on husks. He lived his entire life with nothing of merit to show. Works of wood hay and stubble that when measured in the fire of the judgment seat of Christ simply perish.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
....uh read in 1 or 2 corinthians which says the opposite of what you think.
"...some are saved as through fire. They are saved,but their works are burned up"
 
Mar 28, 2016
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No, tongues is distinguished from prophecy clearly in 1 Corinthians.
I don't think you have a understanding what prophecy is. Did you mean according to verse 22-and 23 of chapter 14 ?

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they "not hear" me, saith the Lord.

If its not prophecy (God's Word) they refuse to hear than what? Sounds without meaning a unknow tongue ?

Now that we have established tongues is prophecy .What does the sign outwardly confirm seeing it has to do with God mocking those that fall backward and yet for all that they still chase after wonderments that have no understanding ?

Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians 14;21-22

Still waiting for the answer...What does the sign confirm? They hear prophecy and believe God .Or unbelief (no faith) .Yet for all that they still refuse to look to the foundation of the doctrine

No, God exists independent of faith. The demons believe in the existence of God, but they don't have faith. The word of God proves the existence of God rationally. We are saved by faith. It is impossible to prove anything by (or "according to") faith.
Demons need a source of faith like any creature created. They simply are not given saving faith .

They are not subject to the gospel .Prophecy according to the faith of Christ make them flee

God is not independent of His faith. How could he be our faithful Creator if he was independent ? What if some did not believe prophecy (God's word) . Will it make His faith that does work in those who do believe without effect?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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....uh read in 1 or 2 corinthians which says the opposite of what you think.
"...some are saved as through fire. They are saved,but their works are burned up"
Did you look to the foundation of tongues? Its in the old testament? What will you do if the sign of mocking provides the opposite what you think ?. Will you still fall backward if you hear prophecy called tongues? .

Isaiah 28:11-13 King James Version (KJV) For with stammering lips and another tongue ( other than the mocking Hebrew) will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they ( the mocking Hebrew) would not hear. But the word of the Lord (prophecy) was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they ( the mocking Hebrew) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken

Fall backward in judgment or stand upright and believe the word of God after the new manner called tongues ?

Its the result of not applying circle reasons as a law. (faith to faith)

Oral tradition as the philosophies of men come in and make the word of God without effect. We must compare the spiritual understanding to the spiritual understanding .(Circular reasoning) Not unknown to unknown as a form of mysticism, a wonderment, or emotion exciter That simply spirals out of control .The circle remain broken.

What doe the sign of tongues confirm? Belief (faith) or unbelief (no faith)?

Once a person confirm then the rest of the doctrine of tongues(prophecy) fall into place . No unknown tongue of wonderment to take away the law.

Two masters. #1 belief (faith) and #2 unbelief (no faith) Which door #1 or #2 seeing no man can serve two ?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,206
9,412
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Why don't you address the biblical issue? If tongues are for today support your position from the bible. If you have a grasp on these doctrines then help the rest of us ignorant souls to become as wise as you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Another dodge. Apparently you are happy to deride others in the name of Christ, and think you are above culpability.

I have no interest in discussing a matter of doctrine with such a person.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,206
9,412
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I don't think you have a understanding what prophecy is. ...

Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians 14;21-22
You quote the key verse yourself, but you don't seem to grasp that Paul is distinguishing the two gifts. I'll put it in simple terms for you:

Tongues are for 'X'

but

Prophecy is for 'Y'

How then can tongues and prophecy be the same thing, when they have different target audiences?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,016
2,506
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Another dodge. Apparently you are happy to deride others in the name of Christ, and think you are above culpability.

I have no interest in discussing a matter of doctrine with such a person.
You will not answer the question but you choose to take the air of moral superiority. If the truth of Christ offends you then the answer is obvious.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,016
2,506
113
....uh read in 1 or 2 corinthians which says the opposite of what you think.
"...some are saved as through fire. They are saved,but their works are burned up"
I'm sorry but your presentation is jumbled and confused. I never claimed that they were not saved and did affirm that the works were burned. Prodigals see themselves as at ease but they are wasting their talents.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,206
9,412
113
You will not answer the question but you choose to take the air of moral superiority. If the truth of Christ offends you then the answer is obvious.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You don't like being called on your bad behaviour, so you are now throwing shade at me.

Have a nice life as a Pharisee.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Why don't you address the biblical issue? If tongues are for today support your position from the bible. If you have a grasp on these doctrines then help the rest of us ignorant souls to become as wise as you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
you have a biblical issue you wish to discuss?

LOL!
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I have never said otherwise.......I have always qualified my stance against tongues and the gifts based upon the modern practice and abuses......I for sure (based upon my family, friends and what I have seen and heard) do not believe the modern charismatic movement is correct. I do not believe one must speak in some mumbo jumbo or even another language to prove salvation.....I do not believe the Benny Hinn's of the world are valid, I do not believe bowling people over with a jacket and or being SLAIN in the spirit are biblical practices, I do not believe in so called modern miracle healers......if it was valid then every children's hospital should be empty....they should be at the hospitals healing every sick child that comes in........

At the end of the day I will be accused of being bias or blind to the truth and I can tell you that I do not shoot from the hip.....never have, never will.....Am I going to say that GOD will not use his gifts at particular places and or times in our age.....NO.....but for sure I do believe that most of what happens in churches today is carnal, not of GOD and contrary to the truth.....I cannot side step the use of vanish, fail and cease and THAT which is COMPLETE (PERFECT) used by PAUL in chapter 13......

what we do or do not do tends to accuse us in our conscience if nowhere else

you can send Benny on the next cruise to Mars with my compliments...he probably has enough money to pay his own way

and the rest of the fakers out there as well...will have to be a very big ship

however, those fakes who exhibit the worst of the abusing of the gifts, still do not eclipse the real thing

so by all means expose what is fake, but those who know what is real, will agree, as we already have. so nothing changes there
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
10,373
3,734
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Speaking in tongues tends to happen in churches where there are new believers joining not the established ones. Why, not necessarily becuase the more established churches arent open to receiving gifts of the spirit but because they actually have more of a routine or order to them. If there are speaking in tongues in the more established ones they usually have someone interpreting. This is what ive observed.

In our mutlitcultural cities today there is more openness to gift of tongues as many people come from all over the world and different backgrounds, and they hear the gospel and believe. No longer are there only churches where only one tongue is spoken. Otherise you get people in silos..chinese church here, indian church there, samoan church, korean church and they never meet each other for fellowship.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
This was my adult Sunday school teacher, for years. Their is no quick 3 paragraph way to cover gifts of the Holy Spirit, like tongues. So if you really want to learn, not in a hurry, please listen to the whole thing. If you can be still and listen for 25 min., that is.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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The Church is the Church, and the operation the same throughout the Church's history, so if tongues were for them back when the Church started then it is for today, for if Paul said when he speaks in tongues it is his spirit that prays why wouldn't the saints today get that same benefit as those in the early Church to edify them.

We know there are many hypocrites today as the Bible tells us there will be, and because of hypocrisy those people would not speak in tongues, for a person will only receive the Spirit when they truly understand repentance, and that is to confess all the past sins, which the hypocrites would not have a problem with that, and to hate sin, and do not want sin, and turn from sins, which many do not do that but they hold unto some sins, and repent of them as they go along thinking it is alright, or think they cannot abstain from sin and do not worry about repenting for it is already covered.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Which there is many people that claim Christ that have a form of living for God, but deny the Spirit to lead them for they want to hold unto sins, and believe that they are alright with God, which is why Jesus said not everyone that says Lord Lord will enter heaven, but only those that do the will of God, and told them to depart from Him for they were workers of iniquity.

So they would not speak in tongues, and since there is so many hypocrites, and different denominations that do not uphold the holiness of Jesus that are not speaking in tongues because of it, then many people do not believe in speaking in tongues, for many do not speak in tongues, and different denominations that are started by people that do not believe in tongues, and then you have many that will not speak in tongues that follow them.

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Love never fails, prophesies can fail when they are over, but they are still known in the Bible because God identifies Himself as the one true God by showing the history of mankind telling the end from the beginning, and we know there is still prophesy to come for everybody is not with Jesus at the New Jerusalem, and things still to come on earth told in the Bible.

Tongues would not cease for all saints need to be edified, which if that is the purpose along with helping the saints abstain from sin and be Christlike then tongues would be for today, for all saints need to be edified not only those back then.

Knowledge shall pass away if we forget it, or do not need it anymore, but God wants us to know knowledge all the time, and to understand the whole of His word for He does not want that knowledge to pass away, and we still need knowledge today, so how can it pass away.

When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with, but the saints are not perfect as long as they are tempted to sin, and have the possibility to sin if they desire, although they can be considered perfect if they are led of the Spirit, but the human nature is still there, and there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh, and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other.

Tongues should still go on, knowledge should still go on, and prophesy should still go on while the saints are still on earth.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity is greater than hope, and faith, because of all we did on earth love will be the only thing that will go on forever, and faith, and hope, are not needed when the saints are with Jesus and His kingdom.

So I believe Paul is saying that when the saints are with Jesus then all the things they done on earth will be no more, including hope, and faith, but charity, love in action, will go on forever.

I do not understand how tongues, knowledge, and prophesy can cease while the saints are on earth, and the operation of the Church is the operation of the Church all through the Church's history.