Something is really really wrong?
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P
you're going to get a whole lot of different answers asking people .. Have you tried reading in the bible to see what God says about it ?
For every question you have He has an answer , and His answer will always be the same no matter how many times you go back and look at it .. .. It will save you a lot of confusion and time
For every question you have He has an answer , and His answer will always be the same no matter how many times you go back and look at it .. .. It will save you a lot of confusion and time
P
Domenic,
Like I said, earlier I was quoting from memory. Now I have my bible.
You're right, it says serpent, not snake. My bad. Is there a difference? Snakes/serpents, by the way, were symbols of wisdom in the ancient world. The snake/serpent was coaxing them to gain wisdom (namely, about good and evil). God did treat them with love after they disobeyed. Genesis 3:21 "And the Lord God made garments of skins for the man and for his wife, and clothed them." This demonstrates care. Why else would God do it? He clothed them because they realized they were naked. (Genesis 3:7-12) God's "judgment" is at Genesis 3:16-19. Read what it says. And again, they were kicked out of the garden because they "might reach out ... and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." (Genesis 3:22)
Like I said, earlier I was quoting from memory. Now I have my bible.
You're right, it says serpent, not snake. My bad. Is there a difference? Snakes/serpents, by the way, were symbols of wisdom in the ancient world. The snake/serpent was coaxing them to gain wisdom (namely, about good and evil). God did treat them with love after they disobeyed. Genesis 3:21 "And the Lord God made garments of skins for the man and for his wife, and clothed them." This demonstrates care. Why else would God do it? He clothed them because they realized they were naked. (Genesis 3:7-12) God's "judgment" is at Genesis 3:16-19. Read what it says. And again, they were kicked out of the garden because they "might reach out ... and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." (Genesis 3:22)
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K
Ps. 16:10, Ps. 49:15, etc. the soul would not need to be removed from the grave if it died. This is the proof from the Hebrew definition.
James 5:20 proves that some souls do not die. The Greek definition is not concise. To my knowledge, no Greek author ever attempted a precise definition of soul.
An absolute proof from the English (the language you asked me in) requires some juggling of words. The English word soul includes the three Hebrew words of nephesh, chai, and shem. Nephesh of sinners can die, and that is implied in James 5:20. Shem (reputation, purpose) can die, we simply forget people. The chai part (life) cannot die, since the spirit returns to God(Eccl 8:8, Eccl. 12:7, Luke 23:46, Heb 12:22-23, I Cor. 15:45), and spirit gives life (John 6:63, 2Cor3:6). So at least part of the soul, as defined in English, the potential to make alive, survives with the spirit.
Whether the part you mean by "soul" (since there are three parts) dies or not, the potential soul is there at resurrection, since we will be judged by our actions (Matt. 25), and thus must be able to remember them.
James 5:20 proves that some souls do not die. The Greek definition is not concise. To my knowledge, no Greek author ever attempted a precise definition of soul.
An absolute proof from the English (the language you asked me in) requires some juggling of words. The English word soul includes the three Hebrew words of nephesh, chai, and shem. Nephesh of sinners can die, and that is implied in James 5:20. Shem (reputation, purpose) can die, we simply forget people. The chai part (life) cannot die, since the spirit returns to God(Eccl 8:8, Eccl. 12:7, Luke 23:46, Heb 12:22-23, I Cor. 15:45), and spirit gives life (John 6:63, 2Cor3:6). So at least part of the soul, as defined in English, the potential to make alive, survives with the spirit.
Whether the part you mean by "soul" (since there are three parts) dies or not, the potential soul is there at resurrection, since we will be judged by our actions (Matt. 25), and thus must be able to remember them.
Domenic you are right the soul is not immortal , consider this.
The Bible states: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) The distressed prophet Elijah “began to ask that his soul might die.” (1 Kings 19:4) Likewise, Jonah “kept asking that his soul might die.” (Jonah 4:8) Yes, the soul dies when the person dies; it is not immortal. Since a person is a soul, to say that someone died is to say that his soul died.Clearly, the Bible shows what man is. He does not have a soul; he is a soul. Because of what man is—his nature—any hope for future life for the dead depends on a resurrection, a raising up. The Bible promises: “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [Jesus’] voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:28, 29) That sure promise of a resurrection—not the teaching of the immortality of the soul—is the basis for real hope for the dead
The Bible states: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) The distressed prophet Elijah “began to ask that his soul might die.” (1 Kings 19:4) Likewise, Jonah “kept asking that his soul might die.” (Jonah 4:8) Yes, the soul dies when the person dies; it is not immortal. Since a person is a soul, to say that someone died is to say that his soul died.Clearly, the Bible shows what man is. He does not have a soul; he is a soul. Because of what man is—his nature—any hope for future life for the dead depends on a resurrection, a raising up. The Bible promises: “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [Jesus’] voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:28, 29) That sure promise of a resurrection—not the teaching of the immortality of the soul—is the basis for real hope for the dead
K
But if you read to Ezek, 18:9, the next verses exampt the souls of the just. Notice, neither Elijah or Jonah got what they prayed for.
You are correct, the nephesh dies or does not die in accordance with the life led. As I pointed out, the English word "soul" includes more than the nephesh. It is the chai that cannot die.
And you are certainly correct that it is the promise of the resurrection that is the thing that is important to our lives. Compared to that the issue of death of a part of a soul is a small detail. The initial question is whether the soul does die, not whether it can die. The answer is, it depends on the life led in Hebrew or Greek, and in English, since the chai is part of the soul, at least part of the soul does not die.
You are correct, the nephesh dies or does not die in accordance with the life led. As I pointed out, the English word "soul" includes more than the nephesh. It is the chai that cannot die.
And you are certainly correct that it is the promise of the resurrection that is the thing that is important to our lives. Compared to that the issue of death of a part of a soul is a small detail. The initial question is whether the soul does die, not whether it can die. The answer is, it depends on the life led in Hebrew or Greek, and in English, since the chai is part of the soul, at least part of the soul does not die.
C
I've always thought we just plain don't have the whole story yet. I think the Adam and Eve story is simply the basic staple. I also think it's pompous for people to say "just read your Bible" or "I can't understand how someone would ask such questions with your age and education-- blah blah", and get all snooty about a perfectly legitimate question. I do; however, also believe that God is good, and that there is a legitamate answer. I just don't know what it is yet. Beyond the Adam and Eve story, I feel that the character of God in the OT was consistently just and good, and of course, Jesus Christ's character is obviously the same. I've also experienced that consistency throughout my life experiences. So this is just one of those things I've decided I'll have to wait on to find out the full truth.
I think it's a bad mistake to reprimand someone for asking an honest question, and I think it's even worse to throw together some trite reply like, ''you just don't have the mind of God cause you're just a piddly human being, (so basically) "like it or lump it," or an even worse comeback; "take it the way it is or spend eternity in hell.'' I think there's no faster way to drive people away from Christ then to throw out such thoughtless answers. Let's remember, Christ suffered a horrible death on the cross for that person. Assuming that they are being sincere, at least they care enough to ask. I've never thought God just wants mindless zombies following him around just so they can get a free ticket to heaven. If this Word of God that we all profess to believe in is really true, then all the answers will come in, and they'll be perfectly legitamate. We just may not know the full story yet on some of these issues, which I happened to think we don't. But one thing I do know is this: "I don't know," is always a better answer the wrong answer, especially a put-down wrong answer.
I think it's a bad mistake to reprimand someone for asking an honest question, and I think it's even worse to throw together some trite reply like, ''you just don't have the mind of God cause you're just a piddly human being, (so basically) "like it or lump it," or an even worse comeback; "take it the way it is or spend eternity in hell.'' I think there's no faster way to drive people away from Christ then to throw out such thoughtless answers. Let's remember, Christ suffered a horrible death on the cross for that person. Assuming that they are being sincere, at least they care enough to ask. I've never thought God just wants mindless zombies following him around just so they can get a free ticket to heaven. If this Word of God that we all profess to believe in is really true, then all the answers will come in, and they'll be perfectly legitamate. We just may not know the full story yet on some of these issues, which I happened to think we don't. But one thing I do know is this: "I don't know," is always a better answer the wrong answer, especially a put-down wrong answer.
The understanding that the word "soul" can mean the whole person is supported by other scriptures. For example, the Bible speaks of a soul’s doing work. (Leviticus 23:30) The soul is spoken of as being impatient, irritated, sleepless, fearful, and depressed. (Judges 16:16; Job 19:2; Psalm 119:28; Acts 2:43; 1 Thessalonians 5:14) Referring to a soul as a person, Romans 13:1 states: "Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities." And at 1 Peter 3:20, we read: "In Noah’s days, . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water." Nothing in these scriptures indicates that the soul is some immaterial entity that lives on after death.
What about animals and plants? Are they souls? Consider how the Bible describes the creation of animals. "Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls," God commanded. On the next creative day, God said: "Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind." (Genesis 1:20, 24) Therefore, all living creatures—human or animal—are souls. Scripturally, plants are not referred to as souls.
The word "soul" is used in yet another sense. At Job 33:22, we read: "His soul draws near to the pit, and his life to those inflicting death." Here, the terms "soul" and "life" are used in parallel, one amplifying the meaning of the other. "Soul," then, can also refer to the life that one enjoys as a living soul, or person. Hence, the Scriptures refer to Moses’ enemies who were seeking to take his life as "all the men who were hunting for [his] soul." The Bible’s definition of "soul" is simple and consistent. The word can refer to a human or an animal or to the life that a creature enjoys as a living soul. >>>“The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4)<<<
What about animals and plants? Are they souls? Consider how the Bible describes the creation of animals. "Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls," God commanded. On the next creative day, God said: "Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind." (Genesis 1:20, 24) Therefore, all living creatures—human or animal—are souls. Scripturally, plants are not referred to as souls.
The word "soul" is used in yet another sense. At Job 33:22, we read: "His soul draws near to the pit, and his life to those inflicting death." Here, the terms "soul" and "life" are used in parallel, one amplifying the meaning of the other. "Soul," then, can also refer to the life that one enjoys as a living soul, or person. Hence, the Scriptures refer to Moses’ enemies who were seeking to take his life as "all the men who were hunting for [his] soul." The Bible’s definition of "soul" is simple and consistent. The word can refer to a human or an animal or to the life that a creature enjoys as a living soul. >>>“The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4)<<<
I think the key to this lies in scripture.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
here we find the command to not eat of this tree. The disobedience to this command would result in death.
As we know they did eat of the tree. why?
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
serpent/Devil Rev 12:9, lies to Eve.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
So the Devil lies to Eve and then makes it look like God's real reason for stopping them eating it is because they will become like Him.
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
What Did Eve then do?
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
She saw the food of the tree and found it pleasant and desirable for wisdom and then ate. what did she do?
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet...
She broke the law of love.
one might even say this is theft being that she was told not to eat of it. but anyway. she sinned in eating the food of the tree.
we know they sinned why?
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Adam transgressed or sinned. and from this death passed to all men why?
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
because all have sinned.
so the word is clear that it is not Adams sin that we are punished for but rather our own. however through Adams sin, sin entered the world. why?
The answer lies in the solution.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
by seeing how God saved us through Jesus and thus brings us into obedience we will understand how by Adam many were brought into disobedience.
skipping a whole lot a scriptures and assuming everyone knows how we are made righteous by Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit or in short Jesus becomes our Lord and master. meaning the Satan was our Master beforehand.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Jesus frees us from being slaves to sin. Satan is the master of sin.
Going back to the fall we see that Eve and Adam chose to obey who?
God says don't eat, will die.
Satan says, eat, wont die.
When Adam and Eve chose to obey Satan they became slaves to Him and thus the human race was born into slavery.
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
so in short, Adam and Eve disobeyed God and served Satan and thus became slaves to the one who they obeyed. This caused all mankind to be born under the rule of Satan and thus bound by sin. Jesus came to save us and offer a way for us to receive God as our master again through His blood.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
We have been reconciled to God. no more slaves to Satan.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
here we find the command to not eat of this tree. The disobedience to this command would result in death.
As we know they did eat of the tree. why?
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
serpent/Devil Rev 12:9, lies to Eve.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
So the Devil lies to Eve and then makes it look like God's real reason for stopping them eating it is because they will become like Him.
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
What Did Eve then do?
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
She saw the food of the tree and found it pleasant and desirable for wisdom and then ate. what did she do?
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet...
She broke the law of love.
one might even say this is theft being that she was told not to eat of it. but anyway. she sinned in eating the food of the tree.
we know they sinned why?
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Adam transgressed or sinned. and from this death passed to all men why?
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
because all have sinned.
so the word is clear that it is not Adams sin that we are punished for but rather our own. however through Adams sin, sin entered the world. why?
The answer lies in the solution.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
by seeing how God saved us through Jesus and thus brings us into obedience we will understand how by Adam many were brought into disobedience.
skipping a whole lot a scriptures and assuming everyone knows how we are made righteous by Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit or in short Jesus becomes our Lord and master. meaning the Satan was our Master beforehand.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Jesus frees us from being slaves to sin. Satan is the master of sin.
Going back to the fall we see that Eve and Adam chose to obey who?
God says don't eat, will die.
Satan says, eat, wont die.
When Adam and Eve chose to obey Satan they became slaves to Him and thus the human race was born into slavery.
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
so in short, Adam and Eve disobeyed God and served Satan and thus became slaves to the one who they obeyed. This caused all mankind to be born under the rule of Satan and thus bound by sin. Jesus came to save us and offer a way for us to receive God as our master again through His blood.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
We have been reconciled to God. no more slaves to Satan.