Speaking in tongues

[notuptome]

Verse 4 says, "Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church." There is not a single verse anywhere that suggests that "edifies" is negative or neutral; it is always positive. So your statement above is incorrect.

Edifies himself is to build oneself up. One then becomes a legend in their own mind. It creates the impression of self importance.

In the context of the chapter Paul is stressing the edification of the body of Christ the church not building oneself up. Else why would Paul draw the conclusion that without understanding there is no fruit?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[stonesoffire]

I'm not sure how anyone who has received the baptism of Holy Spirit, and then grows in the knowledge of His grace could be in the flesh of self. Seeing with word studies that our "I" is crucified with the born again experience would show your statement to be false. I is ego in Greek.

Salvation is all the work of Holy Spirit, from beginning to the end.

The understanding may initially be unfruitful, but we have promises that what He's started, He brings to the finish.

I've found Holy Spirit to be faithful in all things.

Have you ever thought Mr. Notuptoyou that you are encouraging fear and unbelief? To mistrust God?

Now none of us are perfect and we can be forgiven, but why would this be such a blind spot for you in so many years?

This I cannot understand.

 

[notuptome]

I'm not sure how anyone who has received the baptism of Holy Spirit, and then grows in the knowledge of His grace could be in the flesh of self. Seeing with word studies that our "I" is crucified with the born again experience would show your statement to be false. I is ego in Greek.

Salvation is all the work of Holy Spirit, from beginning to the end.

The understanding may initially be unfruitful, but we have promises that what He's started, He brings to the finish.

I've found Holy Spirit to be faithful in all things.

Have you ever thought Mr. Notuptoyou that you are encouraging fear and unbelief? To mistrust God?

Now none of us are perfect and we can be forgiven, but why would this be such a blind spot for you in so many years?

This I cannot understand.

I am afraid you do not have a biblical understanding of tongues. Acts and 1 Cor 12-14 along with a number of other passages describe tongues as a wholly different demonstration of the Holy Spirit than is seen in the modern church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[OstrichSmiling]

I'm not sure how anyone who has received the baptism of Holy Spirit, and then grows in the knowledge of His grace could be in the flesh of self. Seeing with word studies that our "I" is crucified with the born again experience would show your statement to be false. I is ego in Greek.
,,,,,,,

As to that bold part. How then do you explain Paul's writings that used first person pronouns more than any other book in the new testament. That of I, me, my, mine)

 

[stonesoffire]

There have been many experiences with our spiritual language written about Roger. Some have given messages in a language known only to the hearer, some have understood what is spoken without the literal interpretation, many have experienced power in so many different ways.

The scriptures do not contain all of what was spoken and seen through the work of Jesus....how much more the works of Holy Spirit who has been poured out into the world.

Jesus said "greater".

 

[shrume]

Edifies himself is to build oneself up. One then becomes a legend in their own mind. It creates the impression of self importance.

Paul must have been an insufferable boor.

1 Cor 14:
18) I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

In the context of the chapter Paul is stressing the edification of the body of Christ the church not building oneself up.

The context of 1 Cor 14 is in meetings, and in meetings tongues must always be interpreted. But he also explicitly states that when a Christian speaks in tongues he edifies himself (1 Cor 14:4).

Else why would Paul draw the conclusion that without understanding there is no fruit?

Paul does not draw that conclusion. This is yet another example of how you twist Paul's words to try and support cessationism.

 

[shrume]

I am afraid you do not have a biblical understanding of tongues.

It's impossible for a statement to be more ironic....

Acts and 1 Cor 12-14 along with a number of other passages describe tongues as a wholly different demonstration of the Holy Spirit than is seen in the modern church.

Not every church.

 

[stonesoffire]

As to that bold part. How then do you explain Paul's writings that used first person pronouns more than any other book in the new testament. That of I, me, my, mine)

I don't understand your question.

But I would ask you this. When you lay hands on someone and they are healed, what or who was the source?

G1473

ἐγώ

egō

eg-o'

A primary pronoun of the first person, “I” (only expressed when emphatic): - I, me. For the other cases and the plural see G1691, G1698, G1700, G2248, G2249, G2254, G2257, etc.

Total KJV occurrences: 368

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Paul must have been an insufferable boor.
,,,,

Well, he was quite something. The Book of James elaborates as it was written by James expressly for the purpose of addressing Paul's teaching.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

I don't understand your question.

But I would ask you this. When you lay hands on someone and they are healed, what or who was the source?

G1473

ἐγώ

egō

eg-o'

A primary pronoun of the first person, “I” (only expressed when emphatic): - I, me. For the other cases and the plural see G1691, G1698, G1700, G2248, G2249, G2254, G2257, etc.

Total KJV occurrences: 368

It isn't a very difficult question however, that you don't understand and instead answer with your own question I'll just leave it there.

 

[stonesoffire]

It isn't a very difficult question however, that you don't understand and instead answer with your own question I'll just leave it there.

Oh, I answered you. I was being polite with stating I didn't understand.

You conveniently left my answer out.

 

[stonesoffire]

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Foolish babbling? How many times has this been said on this forum?

 

[Dino246]

And that verse never meant that the speaker doesn't understand what they say. I have demonstrated to you that edification is in the context of understanding. If others are edified when the tongues are interpreted for their understanding then self edification carries the same meaning - understanding.
No one can claim that they are built in any manner when they don't understand anything.
...
Common good means common good, not self edification. You are wrong no matter how much you try- you need to write your own bible for you to be right. 1 Cor 14:4 and all chapter 14, Paul is not praising anyone for self edification, on the contrary, he reprimands them for selfish and childish practice.

Edifies himself is to build oneself up. One then becomes a legend in their own mind. It creates the impression of self importance.

In the context of the chapter Paul is stressing the edification of the body of Christ the church not building oneself up. Else why would Paul draw the conclusion that without understanding there is no fruit?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Jude disagrees with both of you:

20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

Jude's "building yourselves up" is the same root word as Paul's "edifies himself". It's clearly a positive thing. Oh, and Jude mentions praying in the Holy Spirit... how about that!

Your positions do not stand up to examination.

 

[PS]

When you go about speaking incomprehensible words, how do you tell it is the will of the Father if you don't understand a word you are saying?

2 Thess 2:9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Rev 13:11Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.

These verses are talking about the same thing as Matt 7. Rev 13 even goes further to say that the beast has two horns like that of a lamb- a clear indication that all these things happen in the church through the so called ministers/pastors.

We know if it is of the true Lord or of the devil by the fruit that those people produce.

 

[Noose]

We know if it is of the true Lord or of the devil by the fruit that those people produce.

Matt 24:11 and many false prophets will arise and mislead many. 12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.

Many still many and most still means most.

2 Thess 2:11 For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie,12in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

A powerful delusion means it is powerful. There is a falling away, don't cheat yourself.

 

[PS]

Matt 24:11 and many false prophets will arise and mislead many. 12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.

Many still many and most still means most.

2 Thess 2:11 For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie,12in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

A powerful delusion means it is powerful. There is a falling away, don't cheat yourself.

If it is of the devil people will grow cold and delight in wickedness.

There's your answer. It is not of God.

 

[Noose]

Jude disagrees with both of you:

20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

Jude's "building yourselves up" is the same root word as Paul's "edifies himself". It's clearly a positive thing. Oh, and Jude mentions praying in the Holy Spirit... how about that!

Your positions do not stand up to examination.

Even Jude is against your position. Jude is talking about the church, not individuals.

Jude:
3Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. 4For certain individuals whose condemnation was written aboutb long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

.........
20But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,21keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

22Be merciful to those who doubt; 23save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.


Again, Jude repeats what Paul has been saying in 1 Corinthians. None of these means that people are built when they pray words that they don't understand. Jude is writing to a Church and is urging them to build themselves (as the church not as individuals) bu ignoring those that slander amongst them. Nothing to suggest meaningless language.

 

[Noose]

If it is of the devil people will grow cold and delight in wickedness.

Matt 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

These people are not muslims/atheists/Jews (Judaism), Hindus/ devil worshipers- these are people that called themselves Christians and went about doing miracles in the name of the Lord (so they thought).

 

[PS]

Even Jude is against your position. Jude is talking about the church, not individuals.

Jude:
3Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. 4For certain individuals whose condemnation was written aboutb long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

.........
20But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,21keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

22Be merciful to those who doubt; 23save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.


Again, Jude repeats what Paul has been saying in 1 Corinthians. None of these means that people are built when they pray words that they don't understand. Jude is writing to a Church and is urging them to build themselves (as the church not as individuals) bu ignoring those that slander amongst them. Nothing to suggest meaningless language.

People are the church.

 

[PS]

These people are not muslims/atheists/Jews (Judaism), Hindus/ devil worshipers- these are people that called themselves Christians and went about doing miracles in the name of the Lord (so they thought).

"Or so they thought," misguided people who call themselves Christians. There are a lot of them around, some very obvious ones are those who misquote scripture, take scripture out of context, and put a false emphasis on certain words resulting in people falling away from the faith. You have told us what their end will be. We need to examine ourselves.