Speaking in tongues

[shrume]

1 Cor 14:9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

That's why in public, tongues must be interpreted.

Speak intelligible words with you tongue not "interpret your un-intelligible words that you speak with your tongue.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

27) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

There can not be any edification where there's no understanding, you can't explain how.

And yet the Bible says so, plain as day:

1 Cor 14:
4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

 

[shrume]

God is still doing miracles but God has never engaged in the inane.

True.

From the foundation of the world God has been in the wisdom business.

Yep.

What's your point, Roger?

 

[notuptome]

True.


Yep.

What's your point, Roger?

I am tempted to give you a reply but I doubt you would understand.

Scripture stresses the importance of understanding as a step in obtaining wisdom. Do you believe God wants you to be wise?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Noose]

That's why in public, tongues must be interpreted.


1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

27) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.


And yet the Bible says so, plain as day:

1 Cor 14:
4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Nope.
Paul recommends speaking intelligible words with your tongue, this is the default position that everyone should adopt. Interpretation only comes in if it happens that the a language that people don't understand is used.

None of these happens today and i know why.

 

[notuptome]

Nope.
Paul recommends speaking intelligible words with your tongue, this is the default position that everyone should adopt. Interpretation only comes in if it happens that the a language that people don't understand is used.

None of these happens today and i know why.

Well we had one of our missionaries visit and he greeted us in the native language of the folks on the field where he was ministering. He then told us what he said. Of course we could not verify his interpretation but we trust he did not deceive us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[shrume]

I am tempted to give you a reply but I doubt you would understand.

Scripture stresses the importance of understanding as a step in obtaining wisdom. Do you believe God wants you to be wise?

Absolutely.

It would be wise for Christians to do what God wants us to do.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

37) If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

...I can see what you're doing... You're trying yet another tactic to try and discredit speaking in tongues.

Don't let yourself be in this group, Roger:
1 Cor 14:
38) But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

[shrume]

Nope.
Paul recommends speaking intelligible words with your tongue, this is the default position that everyone should adopt. Interpretation only comes in if it happens that the a language that people don't understand is used.

None of these happens today and i know why.

1 Cor 14:
38) But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

I wish you the best in your Christian walk.

But I DO wish you could understand what Paul is saying, and believe it.

 

[Noose]

Absolutely.

It would be wise for Christians to do what God wants us to do.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

The verse that you like quoting is also against your position.
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied.
The word BUT as used by Paul negates the first part of this equation, why? because the Corinthians were not doing the right thing. It is funny that you dwell so much on the negated part.

 

[Noose]

1 Cor 14:
38) But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

I wish you the best in your Christian walk.

But I DO wish you could understand what Paul is saying, and believe it.

No thanks.
These are the ignorant people.

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[shrume]

The verse that you like quoting is also against your position.
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied.
The word BUT as used by Paul negates the first part of this equation, why? because the Corinthians were not doing the right thing. It is funny that you dwell so much on the negated part.

Read the rest of the verse...

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Again, a lot of interesting discussion, but almost all based upon the assumption that what Pentecostal Charismatic Christians are doing today mirrors the Biblical narrative.

I believe that it has been said that some churches today do not follow Biblical narrative . . . but there are some that do. Why is it you assume that only Pentecostal Charismatic Christians speak in tongues? I am not a Pentecostal Charismatic Christian.

I’d be curious to get answers from people on the following –

For those who speak them; have you ever recorded yourself and then listened to what you’re producing?? If not, why not? If you have; what, to you, makes it a language?

At its very basic level, for something to be language, it must consist of (1) discrete units of various sorts, and (2) rules and principles that govern the way these discrete units can be combined and ordered.

Can you describe how your tongues fit the above criteria?

I have . . . Although I do not understand what I said - I am speaking a language because it sounds like a language. What language it is - I do not know. Since I do not understand what I am saying I don't know if it "fits" your criteria. I can tell when a sentence starts and stops.

Why will no two ‘tongues’ ever be the same? If it is indeed a heavenly/divine language, why would there ever be a need for more than one, rather than one per person?

We are all individuals regardless that it is the same spirit energizing each believer. It is God's discretion what language one speaks.

Why won’t your ‘tongue’ ever contain a sound which does not exist in your native language or one you have been exposed to (regardless of how you were exposed to it – really all you need to have done is just hear it)?

Doesn't all language carry familiar consonant sounds and vowel sounds? Not really understanding your question.

If tongues are supernatural, why can the entire phenomenon (with respect to what’s being produced and how it’s being produced – i.e. not the ‘tongues experience’, but rather the mechanics behind the actual ‘tongue’) be easily explained in somewhat simple Linguistic terms?

The mechanics of speaking in tongues is the same mechanics utilized when anyone speaks. The only difference is when we carry on a conversation, we utilize our minds, e.g. think about what we are going to say but when we speak in tongues - we do not have to engage our minds . . . It is the Spirit energizing our speech - we utilize our mouth, tongue, vocal cords, e.g. same mechanics but what we speak is energized by the Spirit.

 

[shrume]

But I DO wish you could understand what Paul is saying, and believe it.

No thanks.

Got it...

These are the ignorant people.

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Nothing to do with speaking in tongues.

 

[Noose]

Read the rest of the verse...

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

It still means the Corinthians were doing the wrong thing, so how do you dwell on the part that Paul negated?
Paul is simply saying, it would be good for all of you if all of you did the right thing when you speak in tongues. The Corinthians were speaking unknown words and no one was getting edified (same scenario today).

 

[Noose]

Nothing to do with speaking in tongues.

It actually does because speaking in tongues is one of the signs & wonders (miracles) that were promised by Jesus here:

Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Speaking in tongues fits well with Matt 7 group.

 

[shrume]

It still means the Corinthians were doing the wrong thing

Yes, they were all speaking in tongues at once, and nobody was interpreting.

so how do you dwell on the part that Paul negated?

Paul did not negate anything.

Paul is simply saying, it would be good for all of you if all of you did the right thing when you speak in tongues.

That is twisting the text. Subtle, maybe, but a twist.

Paul said "I would that ye all spoke in tongues". He then goes on to explain that when tongues are spoken in public, they are to be interpreted.

The Corinthians were speaking unknown words and no one was getting edified (same scenario today).

The people speaking were edifying themselves, but nobody else was being edified because they could not understand what was being said. This is why when tongues are spoken in public, they must be interpreted.

 

[shrume]

It actually does because speaking in tongues is one of the signs & wonders (miracles) that were promised by Jesus here:

Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

There is good evidence that Mark 16:9-20 are not authentic.

Speaking in tongues fits well with Matt 7 group.

That is simply your opinion, and has no merit.

 

[Noose]

There is good evidence that Mark 16:9-20 are not authentic.


That is simply your opinion, and has no merit.

If Mark 16:9-20 is not authentic, Acts (where fulfillment of Mark 16:17 promise is fulfilled, is also not authentic. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Dino246]

Without knowledge there can be no fruit. You cannot grow without knowledge just as the prodigal could not grow on the husks he was reduced to eating while he was separated from his father.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God. To edify yourself you must have the word of God and you must understand it. Proverbs makes clear that we obtain knowledge, understanding and then wisdom.

The world provides amusement which causes one's mind to flounder in the sea of nothingness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up (edifies). Edification is more than obtaining knowledge and/or understanding.

 

[shrume]

If Mark 16:9-20 is not authentic, Acts (where fulfillment of Mark 16:17 promise is fulfilled, is also not authentic. You can't have it both ways.

That is illogical, and does not deserve a response.

 

[Noose]

That is illogical, and does not deserve a response.

It already has a response, so it is logical (by your own standards). You can't have it both ways- Mark is the earliest promise of believers speaking in tongues, if it is fake even tongues are also fake.