Spiritual Baptism

Magenta · Feb 14, 2024

Thank you for your considerate post; I have considered the various views on this contentious issue
(as many seem to be), and will stand by the fact that Jesus made a distinction between physical H2O
and spiritual H2O, which actually seems to escape many. Physical water accomplishes nothing for
-and adds nothing to- our salvation. Jesus had John baptize Him in order to fulfill all righteousness.

What we do is put on the righteousness of Christ. We clothe ourselves in His righteousness.

If for some reason someone is unable to be water baptized after coming to belief and having faith
in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ for the salvation of their soul, having repented of their
rebellion against God, then they will not lose their salvation for want of physical water, when Jesus
Christ gives them water that will become in them a spring welling up to eternal life. Jesus said so .

Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”

Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks come in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life." John 4:13b-14

And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.
To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment." Rev 21:6

The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come.” And let the one who hears say, "Come.” And let the
one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation. Isaiah 12:3

Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as
crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb. Rev 22:1

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture
has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the Spirit,
whom those who believed in him were later to receive. John 7:37-39a

They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any
scorching heat. For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will
guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Rev 7:16-17

Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me
a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.” John 4:10

Isaiah 12:2-3

turbosixx · Feb 14, 2024

Blain said:

Sorry, I said emotion. To me emotion and experience are pretty much the same thing. We can't trust our experiences either to determine truth.

Is experience any more truthful than God's word? Will different people have the same experience?
God's word is truth. Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. If God's word isn't truth as it says it is, then how can we trust it. What can we trust.

I've said it many times, it's sad that we all read the same book and yet come out with different conclusions. It ought not be. That's why I do my very best to stick to what is written and not what men say. An example, I hear all the time we are saved by faith alone but what does the bible actually say about faith alone?
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Yet many people proclaim justified by faith alone and not by works. Just the opposite of what the bible says.

My personal opinion is that people don't read the bible to understand what it says, but read it till it says what they want it to say.

turbosixx · Feb 14, 2024

Johann said:

Jesus said He would divide the closest relationships we can have.
51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. 52 For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

turbosixx · Feb 14, 2024

Johann said:

I agree it is to "whoever"

turbosixx · Feb 14, 2024

Magenta said:

Thank you for your considerate post; I have considered the various views on this contentious issue
(as many seem to be), and will stand by the fact that Jesus made a distinction between physical H2O
and spiritual H2O, which actually seems to escape many. Physical water accomplishes nothing for
-and adds nothing to- our salvation. Jesus had John baptize Him in order to fulfill all righteousness.

What we do is put on the righteousness of Christ. We clothe ourselves in His righteousness.

If for some reason someone is unable to be water baptized after coming to belief and having faith
in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ for the salvation of their soul, having repented of their
rebellion against God, then they will not lose their salvation for want of physical water, when Jesus
Christ gives them water that will become in them a spring welling up to eternal life. Jesus said so .

Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”

Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks come in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life." John 4:13b-14

And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.
To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment." Rev 21:6

The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come.” And let the one who hears say, "Come.” And let the
one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation. Isaiah 12:3

Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as
crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb. Rev 22:1

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture
has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the Spirit,
whom those who believed in him were later to receive. John 7:37-39a

They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any
scorching heat. For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will
guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Rev 7:16-17

Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me
a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.” John 4:10

Isaiah 12:2-3

Most of what you posted was before Jesus's sacrifice. After His sacrifice He says Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved
I'm curious how this is not truth?

Johann · Feb 14, 2024

turbosixx said:

Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom_3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom_3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom_3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom_4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Rom_4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Rom_4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Rom_4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Rom_4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Rom_4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom_4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

Rom_4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Rom_5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom_5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom_9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom_10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

Rom_10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom_11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Rom_12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Rom_14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Rom_14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Rom_14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Rom_16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1Co_2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1Co_12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1Co_13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co_13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Shalom
J.

Johann · Feb 14, 2024

turbosixx said:

Jesus said He would divide the closest relationships we can have.
51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. 52 For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Now this is a classic example of a Scripture verse given out of context-no offense.
J.

Johann · Feb 14, 2024

turbosixx said:

IS A WATER WITNESS NECESSARY?

Does God desire that the Christian should be both spiritual and religious? Does God desire that the Christian should receive from the hands of another Christian a baptism by water to witness to the world that he is seated in the heavenlies in Christ? Every Christian should know that no work of righteousness and no religious ceremony is required for the sinner’s salvation. If one Christian baptizes with water another Christian, the water ceremony is the work done by one man and received by another man.

According to Ephesians 2:8 to 10, Titus 3:5 to 8, Romans 4:3 to 5, man cannot help save himself by anything that he can do for himself. No religious work that any other person can do for him will help to save him. The true messenger of grace can pray for the sinner to whom he proclaims the gospel of the grace of God. But he prays that God will, by the Holy Spirit, cause the sinner to believe and be saved.

The believing sinner is justified without a cause by God’s grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Romans 3:24. No servant of the Lord should be ignorant or conceited enough to believe that he can do one thing to make the redemptive work of Jesus Christ more perfect or efficacious. When the sinner is saved by God he is complete in Christ and all of his sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake. Colossians 2:10 and 13 and Ephesians 4:32.

The greatest of all Christians was also the greatest missionary, evangelist and Bible teacher of all ages. He spent at least one year and a half in a very large city. God gave to that missionary, Paul, many people in the city of Corinth. He wrote to the Christians in that city and said that he thanked God that he baptized very few of them. “I know not whether I baptized any other.” I Corinthians 1:16.

In this same Epistle this same man of God wrote, “I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.” I Corinthians 9:22. There was surely not one single thing that Paul would not have done to help men to be saved and then to help them to witness to the world that they were saved. Can you imagine Paul having written, “I do not know whether or not I helped more than five or six of you to witness to the world that ye have been baptized into the Body of Christ; in fact, I thank God that I didn’t?” If water baptism were as important as some of our zealous baptizers of today seem to think, Paul would never have written the words recorded in I Corinthians 1:14 to 17. But Paul did write:

ROMANS 6:3 AND 4

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore, we are buried with Him by baptism; that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
God’s mighty power raised Christ far above principalities and powers where He is seated in the heavenlies. Ephesians 1:19 to 23.

In these verses we learn that that same mighty power of God is to upward. In the Epistle to the Ephesians, as well as in the sixth chapter of Romans, the Holy Spirit has revealed to the Christians the glorious fact of their identification with Christ in His death, burial, resurrection and ascension.

No intelligent student of the Word of God would even intimate that water baptism in any way aids in the Christian’s identification with Christ.

But such a student does know that this identification is accomplished by a baptism, which is the work of God.

There are many spiritual Lutherans and spiritual Presbyterians and spiritual Methodists, all members of the Body of Christ in spite of their sectarian affiliations. The great majority of these saved Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists were sprinkled with a few drops of water in infancy. Therefore, when they were subjected to their sectarian water ceremonies they were not witnessing to the fact that they had believed the gospel and had become members of the Body of Christ.

But when they did finally exercise faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, years after they were sprinkled, they were baptized into the death of Christ, and were buried with Him by baptism. According to the immersionists, their sprinkling baptism was not valid; in fact it was not baptism at all, because sprinkling could not be the symbol of a burial. Moreover their water ceremony was out of place, because of the fact they received their unscriptural baptism years before they were buried with Christ by the Divine baptism. In many parts of this country some of the zealous immersionists declare that they can not recognize such alien baptism and in spite of the fact that the saved Lutherans, saved Presbyterians and saved Methodists are in the same Body with these immersed church members, these immersionists consider it unholy to sit with them at the Lord’s table or give them the right hand of fellowship in the matter of church membership. So there is schism in the Body because of baptism.

Unity is on the basis of one baptism.

Obviously these close communion, or close baptism, immersionists would not have received the twelve apostles into their fellowship, for those twelve faithful men were baptized with water several years before Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father. In John 20:9 we learn that even the chiefs of the twelve apostles did not know the Scripture that Jesus Christ was to be raised from the dead. When the women learned at the open sepulchre that Christ had been raised from the dead and told the apostles of the fact, the apostles believed them not as the report seemed to them to be an idle tale . . . Luke 24:11. In Luke 18:31 to 34 we learn that several years after the twelve apostles were baptized with water they understood nothing of the meaning of death and the resurrection of Christ. So we are sure that when the twelve apostles were baptized unto repentance for the remission of sins they were not witnessing to the world that they had been baptized into the death of Christ, had been buried with Him by baptism and had been raised to walk in newness of life. If this fantastical teaching concerning Romans 6:3 and 4 were Scriptural instead of a man made theory, surely the twelve apostles should have been rebaptized with water after the Lord Jesus Christ was raised by the glory of the Father. Generally the sectarian Christians who contend earnestly for the watery grave as a witness to the world have much to say about:

FOLLOWING THE LORD JESUS IN BAPTISM

Again we say that if Christians are to go down into a watery grave to show that they have died with Christ, have been buried with Christ and raised with Christ and they insist that all Christians should follow the Lord Jesus in baptism, then Christ should have received His water baptism after His death and resurrection. But they know that Christ was baptized with water several years before His death and resurrection and of course this is God’s refutation of this somewhat modern and fantastical interpretation of Romans 6:3 and 4. It is a blessed experience when the scales drop from the eyes of these blind followers of the blind and they find that they have been contending for tradition instead of for sound Bible doctrine. What a deliverance when they are taught the blessed truth of the one Divine baptism of Ephesians 4:5.

Many outstanding men of God, even among the Fundamentalists, handle the Word of God deceitfully in order to support their mode and interpretation and meaning of water baptism. Many have come to the conclusion that they are teaching a theory, but pride will not let them confess and forsake their blunder. Others are like Peter, “fearing them of the circumcision,” and for personal advantage refuse to preach and practice their convictions. There are, however, many zealous immersionists who are sincere, but sincerely wrong in their interpretation of Romans 6:3 and 4.

They admit that they do not follow the Lord Jesus in circumcision. They admit that He was made under the law, that He lived under the law and that He died under the law, that He recognized those who sat in Moses’ seat. Matthew 23:1 to 4 and Galatians 4:4. They admit that Jesus of Nazareth went regularly to the Jewish synagogue on the Jewish Sabbath. Luke 4:16. Jesus of Nazareth was indeed a Minister of the circumcision. Romans 15:8. He told those to whom He ministered to obey the law and visit the priests with a gift. Matthew 8:1 to 4. The immersionists ignore all of these commands and limit their ceremonies, under the slogan, “follow the Lord Jesus,” to water baptism. But then of course when they read John 1:31, and learn the meaning of water baptism in that former dispensation, they are puzzled a bit, but turn to tradition and forget the Word of God rightly divided.

God bless.
Johann

Johann · Feb 14, 2024

NO WATER IN THE SIXTH CHAPTER OF ROMANS

The baptism in the sixth chapter of Romans is meritorious and efficacious. If there is water baptism in Romans 6:3 and 4, then water baptism is essential to salvation, for the baptism there takes the sinner out of Adam and places him in Christ, in Whom he is a new creature.

Mr. Kenneth Wuest, one of the leading Bible teachers in the Moody Bible Institute, printed in the Moody Monthly an exegesis of this wonderful chapter. He remarked that the very Greek construction in the original text would eliminate any water from these verses.

Perhaps, about fifty percent of evangelical Christians would agree with this man of God, that there is no water in that chapter, and far more than fifty percent of them would agree that all members of the Body of Christ have experienced Romans 6:3 and 4 whether they have been sprinkled, immersed or have refused any form of water baptism. Surely when Saul of Tarsus was told to arise and be baptized and wash away his sins he was not instructed by the Holy Spirit that he was witnessing to the world that he had been buried with Christ and raised to walk in newness of life. Surely when Peter and the Eleven preached Acts 2:38, repent and be baptized and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, they did not tell those three thousand Jews to be immersed to show that they were members of the Body of Christ. Surely this watery grave witness theory is tradition and not sound doctrine.

NO WATER IN EPHESIANS 4:5

As “immersion witness” interpretation of Romans 6:4 is contrary to sound doctrine, so also is the teaching of certain immersionists who are putting up a desperate but losing battle to hold on to their cherished religious ceremony by reading water into the one baptism of Ephesians 4:5. They say that the Bible plainly states that, “there is one baptism”; but they believe in two baptisms. They say the one baptism of Ephesians 4:5 must be water. Of course they do not believe in two Bodies or two Christs; just two baptisms. The Bible states in plain language, “there is one baptism.” If that one baptism is water, then water baptism will baptize a sinner into the one Body of Christ.

The outstanding teacher of doctrine in the Moody Bible Institute very recently taught publicly, that which any spiritual, intelligent Christian should know; that there is no water in Ephesians 4:5.

Another very bitter immersionist, a real fighting Fundamentalist, declared that if there is no water in Ephesians 4:5, then we will have difficulty proving that water baptism is for this age and dispensation of grace.

Both of these men of God will readily admit that any sinner who will believe the gospel of the grace of God and receive Christ will go to heaven as a redeemed sinner, that the believer becomes a member of the one true Bible Church without any kind of water baptism. The second man has no patience with any Christian who will not accept his immersion ceremony.

The first man stated just this past week that he believed that the mode of baptism is unimportant, the thing that is important is to be baptized with water whether it is sprinkling, pouring or dipping. He declared any one of them to be Scriptural. Just to think of such utter confusion, such unsound teaching from a man who has charge of so many young men who are going out to teach the Word of God. It must be obvious to any thinking Christian, that if sprinkling a few drops of water on the head of an infant or of an adult, with the explanation that this water ceremony supplanted and superseded circumcision, is Scriptural, then the new theory that the believer should go down in to a watery grave to witness to the world that he has been buried and raised with Christ, is worse than absurd; it is ridiculous. If the Presbyterian teaching is Scriptural, surely no girls or women should be sprinkled; for girls and women were not circumcised.

Then a man of God, who is pastor of a large congregation in Chicago, has just stated in writing that the three thousand Jews who were saved on the day of Pentecost were born again before they obeyed Acts 2:38, but they were not saved until after they obeyed Peter’s commands and were baptized. He has also written that water baptism was a kingdom ordinance. He teaches the watery grave theory, that going into a tank of water is a witness to the world that the Christian’s old man has been put to death. He hasn’t a verse of Scripture to support his teaching, but he seems to think that it must be true because he has taught it for some years. It is not difficult to arouse his old man by exposing his water baptism fallacy.

He doesn’t like it a bit. Pride is a great barrier. It seems next to impossible for an outstanding Bible teacher to say, “I have been wrong,” even when he knows in his heart that he has been. What a hindrance to the Lord’s work. Younger preachers, who consider the outstanding Bible teacher an authority on Bible doctrine, follow him in his erroneous teaching and continue to propagate the error. But according to I John 2:26 to 28, God will not excuse those who are seduced.

Shalom
J.

Johann · Feb 14, 2024

Johann said:

Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom_3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom_3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom_3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom_4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Rom_4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Rom_4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Rom_4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Rom_4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Rom_4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom_4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

Rom_4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Rom_5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom_5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom_9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom_10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

Rom_10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom_11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Rom_12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Rom_14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Rom_14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Rom_14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Rom_16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1Co_2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1Co_12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1Co_13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co_13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Shalom
J.

Rom_4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Rom_4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Johann · Feb 14, 2024

turbosixx said:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Magenta · Feb 14, 2024

turbosixx said:

You insert water where it is not stated. Other verses, such as you are saved by grace through faith, not by works,
etc, say nothing of needing to be drenched in physical water to effectuate your salvation. Salvation is by grace
through faith (Romans 3:22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 30; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9.) Please note
that I am not saying one should not be baptized, or that it is not an important step in one's walk of faith. Three
of the snippets of Scripture I supplied were from Revelation, well beyond the crucifixion. I am not even sure
why that matters in this discussion, but you brought it up. Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. It was
part of the law for priests to undergo such a ritual before assuming their priestly duties. We are not under the law.

Acts 13:38-39

Magenta · Feb 14, 2024

Even so, the distinction between physical and Spiritual water surely exists and remains.

Johann · Feb 14, 2024

Magenta said:

You insert water where it is not stated. Other verses, such as you are saved by grace through faith, not by works,
etc, say nothing of needing to be drenched in physical water to effectuate your salvation. Salvation is by grace
through faith (Romans 3:22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 30; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9.) Please note
that I am not saying one should not be baptized, or that it is not an important step in one's walk of faith. Three
of the snippets of Scripture I supplied were from Revelation, well beyond the crucifixion. I am not even sure
why that matters in this discussion, but you brought it up. Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. It was
part of the law for priests to undergo such a ritual before assuming their priestly duties. We are not under the law.

Acts 13:38-39

Well said-
J.

Thunderrr-mental · Feb 14, 2024

Johann said:

The Holy spirit baptises You into water

Thunderrr-mental · Feb 14, 2024

The Holy Spirit baptises you into water

Believe and be baptised and you will be saved

Don't believe and you will be condemned

FlyingDove · Feb 14, 2024

turbosixx said:

The op asked for scripture supporting spiritual baptism, I provided them. We disagree on how their interrupted. I gave many versions that say baptized BY the Holy Spirit. I believe By/In/With the Holy Spirit are all applicable to spiritual baptism & NO H2O or hands are required.

I cited the Acts 10 inversion on when spiritual baptism by FAITH ALONE began. As Peter was speaking they were immersed in Christ' salvation sealing ( Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 ) Holy Spirit < DONE DEAL - FOREVER SAVED > (Jn 14:16) I cited the Acts 15 verses where their hearts were spiritually purified/circumcised, by FAITH ALONE & NO H2O or hands were required. I cited verses on the True Living Water as well.

People are free (as am I) to believe & promote their beliefs. I adamantly reject the works based notion that being dunked into water saves or forgives sin.

Anyone can immerse someone in water. Only Christ (who knows the true heart) can immerse someone by/in/with His: FOREVER (Jn 14:16) salvation sealing ( Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 ) Holy Spirit. Best wishes, JJ

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Seal

(d) ownership and security, together with destination are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13, in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," not as AV, "after that ye believed;" the aorist participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;" so in 2 Corinthians 1:22 , where the Middle Voice intimates the special interest of the Sealer in His act; (e) authentication by the believer (by receiving the witness of the Son) of the fact that "God is true
(MY NOTE: Vines confirms the meaning I presented in Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 & 2 Corinthians 1:22. Salvation SEALED FOREVER!)

Vines Expository Dictionary Earnest:
"arrabon", noun, Strongs ref #728
originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Timothy 1:14
(MY NOTE: Vines confirms the meaning I presented in 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Timothy 1:14 Salvation SEALED FOREVER!)

Blain · Feb 14, 2024

Johann said:

No
I am not saying discount the scriptures but clearly it is just ink and paper to many and if I say to go to Jesus Christ himself first the living word of God how is this wrong? is he not word of God himself he is the truth way and the life he himself is the truth we chase after we read the scriptures but is it that hard to see how while we claim to speak truth all the division all the doctrine all the deniomation like how you mentioned pentecostosim I am not in any title the church may place I am only after the real thing the real truth and that is it I hold his word in such high regard it dusgusts and offends me how many claim the scriptures to be his word but divbide and consume it based on interpretation on denimination what you understand to be truth but look at the results look at what truth is make no mistake the scriptures to me are him speaking the very same voive that spoke existence into being If he speaks I listen i don't add any interpretation I don't understand based on what demonination I am in either what he says is truth or not adding or taking away annything only causes more division and confusion

If there is only one truth why does demonitation scripture interpretation have such influence? why does the truth rely on where we stand on what we understand to be truth? I am not ok with this I am after him that is it if the scriptures are so easily misused if there is not one truth then something is wrong so I went to Jesus himself I was sick of all this it doesn't add up and when I did I got a taste of the real thing the living waters how he would just show up and fill your room with his presence like a thick golden fog you can strudy the scriptures for a thousand years I promise you will never know him like this

So I speak of what I have seen because I was after the truth even if that menat my understanding or anything I thought was right was weong the surrender is the key let go of anything you thought you understood and be absolutely solid in your resolve for the truth otherwise you will only continue to be in the system you will always interpret always rely on what you think is truth when the truth defies what is the norm

Johann · Feb 14, 2024

FlyingDove said:

The op asked for scripture supporting spiritual baptism, I provided them. We disagree on how their interrupted. I gave many versions that say baptized BY the Holy Spirit. I believe By/In/With the Holy Spirit are all applicable to spiritual baptism & NO H2O or hands are required.

I cited the Acts 10 inversion on when spiritual baptism by FAITH ALONE began. As Peter was speaking they were immersed in Christ' salvation sealing ( Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 ) Holy Spirit < DONE DEAL - FOREVER SAVED > (Jn 14:16) I cited the Acts 15 verses where their hearts were spiritually purified/circumcised, by FAITH ALONE & NO H2O or hands were required. I cited verses on the True Living Water as well.

People are free (as am I) to believe & promote their beliefs. I adamantly reject the works based notion that being dunked into water saves or forgives sin.

Anyone can immerse someone in water. Only Christ (who knows the true heart) can immerse someone by/in/with His: FOREVER (Jn 14:16) salvation sealing ( Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 ) Holy Spirit. Best wishes, JJ

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Seal

(d) ownership and security, together with destination are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13, in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," not as AV, "after that ye believed;" the aorist participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;" so in 2 Corinthians 1:22 , where the Middle Voice intimates the special interest of the Sealer in His act; (e) authentication by the believer (by receiving the witness of the Son) of the fact that "God is true
(MY NOTE: Vines confirms the meaning I presented in Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 & 2 Corinthians 1:22. Salvation SEALED FOREVER!)

Vines Expository Dictionary Earnest:
"arrabon", noun, Strongs ref #728
originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Timothy 1:14
(MY NOTE: Vines confirms the meaning I presented in 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Timothy 1:14 Salvation SEALED FOREVER!)

Cannot go wrong with Scriptures and Vine's
J.

Thunderrr-mental · Feb 14, 2024

Blain said:

I understood every word 😊

You know I want to tell you something which I'm truly thankful for.

Thanks to your strength and your resolve, and helping me through a difficult time in life.

All tho I've never told you.

I disciplined myself to seek the lord.in everything.

Not only did i discipline myself I learnt to put others before myself.

It could not have came a better time when you helped me discipline myself this way,
Just months later something unexpected was about to drop into my life, which you don't know about,

even when you think you should not put others first because of people's behaviour, I truly learnt how to forgive and forget, because of you.

I also want you to know that as a result of you helping me to change and grow strong in weak areas I had. I developed such a mental positive attitude.

I just could not understand how someone could take so much criticism and still be such a blessing,

It Was then I truly believed you where speaking to the lord and wanted to learn from you.

but not only this I would say for what you've done for me and my household, has rubbed off not only on me, but now my family.

but what I'm truly thankful for the most is, if I had not had been uplifted and encouraged the way you encouraged me. I Would not have moved on from affliction.

I Don't think I would have been able to help my wife to beat cancer.

she got the all clear she's cancer free last week.

and I hold you in the highest regard for this and also forever i will be in gratitude for you.

Because I believe your also responsible for my wife beating cancer, which took months of hard work, devotion and prayer, kindness hope tolerance, all theese gifts you helped me progress in . 😊

So with every piece of my heart i thankyou.

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