Spiritual Baptism

[Blain]

Difficult when they want to divorce Scriptures from the Christ-my son is cerebral palsied-severely and in need of constant daily care-and yet he types with his one thumb and listen to anointed preachers-and yet he cannot speak.
Faith comes by hearing, rightly cutting straight the word of God-right?
J.

you know I am not afraid to speak of my weakness I have been open and honest on here but divroce the sctriptures? just because it go against what you think is truth? IK don;t divorce the scriptures I just refuse to accept his word is so powerless that man has the say what truth is and yes clearly I have spoken of everything about the health the care the spiritual warfare I clearly have been very distraught but I still say the same thing I have no reason to believe to speak of this considering how the enemy has been so strong in my life but make no mistake
I am only after him that is it regardless if I am right or wrong regadlress if what I believe to be truth it was always him the sole reason I wanted to be strong maybe I am delusional but what I have tasted of him only fascinates me I seek him the personality the attribute of his heart I intend to go so deep into the vast oceans that is his heart that you just faall more and more madly in love with him

I am not there yet but I have seen what the scriptures mean to people how easily it used and that is not ok the understanding of the scriptures is what I am saying not discounting them if it is his word then can you imagine going before him face to face and if he spoke all these scriptures would you being before the almighty king the one who is the truth could you make the same interpretation or speak what you understand? His word is law no if and or but either what he says is true or it isn't

The scriptures are his very word but if interpretation if deniminations if our own beliefs decide what is truth then it isn't the word of God to us it is ink and paper the fear of the Lord is not about fear itself it is understanding how mighty he is when you experience the fear of the Lord your body trembles you dfare not look at him yet you are smiling in awe and wonder but if the scriptures are not him speaking to you then it is no surprise how casuaklly it is used or mistreated I went after the the rreal thing the enemy came at me but at least he was there he knew how things would be and it is common knowledge that if your not a threat to the enemy he tends to not bother you

anyone can call me a false prophet a false teacher they can call me delusional but when it comes to where I stand on scripture that is when I draw the line

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

you know I am not afraid to speak of my weakness I have been open and honest on here but divroce the sctriptures? just because it go against what you think is truth? IK don;t divorce the scriptures I just refuse to accept his word is so powerless that man has the say what truth is and yes clearly I have spoken of everything about the health the care the spiritual warfare I clearly have been very distraught but I still say the same thing I have no reason to believe to speak of this considering how the enemy has been so strong in my life but make no mistake
I am only after him that is it regardless if I am right or wrong regadlress if what I believe to be truth it was always him the sole reason I wanted to be strong maybe I am delusional but what I have tasted of him only fascinates me I seek him the personality the attribute of his heart I intend to go so deep into the vast oceans that is his heart that you just faall more and more madly in love with him

I am not there yet but I have seen what the scriptures mean to people how easily it used and that is not ok the understanding of the scriptures is what I am saying not discounting them if it is his word then can you imagine going before him face to face and if he spoke all these scriptures would you being before the almighty king the one who is the truth could you make the same interpretation or speak what you understand? His word is law no if and or but either what he says is true or it isn't

The scriptures are his very word but if interpretation if deniminations if our own beliefs decide what is truth then it isn't the word of God to us it is ink and paper the fear of the Lord is not about fear itself it is understanding how mighty he is when you experience the fear of the Lord your body trembles you dfare not look at him yet you are smiling in awe and wonder but if the scriptures are not him speaking to you then it is no surprise how casuaklly it is used or mistreated I went after the the rreal thing the enemy came at me but at least he was there he knew how things would be and it is common knowledge that if your not a threat to the enemy he tends to not bother you

anyone can call me a false prophet a false teacher they can call me delusional but when it comes to where I stand on scripture that is when I draw the line

I think people think scripture can save them. That's the problem I think.

It's the lord who saves you.

It's a common error I believe. And it's quite common amongst the adolescent mind.

It's not until they get out of this mind set, that what you say here will mean anything.

When we look at the mighty men of the renown, we see they where truly devoted to the lord.

It was not just a few words that saved them, but the lord recognising people who's hearts seeked the lord.

Whom the lord had built up, through there desire to seek the lord, before they speak and act.

What we have with people who save themselves is people who just repeat scripture, for there own denomination and satisfaction, and using scripture to belittle people with.

The Gospel has turned into a book of how to label people trolls around here, because of long serving member getting away with promoting abuse.

To many times I see long serving members get away with name calling.

But the thing is I'm more concerned there using the word to set a bad example.

Now we have trolls coming out of the woodwork on a free for all, because its allowed to call people trolls.

It shouldn't be allowed, because now we have hundreds of people calling people names, and the word of God is being trashed


But there repeating someone elses walk in the bible not there own.

And they should know you can't be someone else,

Because when someone is constantly using scripture to save themselves, there mind is else where, and there hardly going to seek the real thing..

 

[Blain]

I understood every word 😊

You know I want to tell you something which I'm truly thankful for.

Thanks to your strength and your resolve, and helping me through a difficult time in life.

All tho I've never told you.

I disciplined myself to seek the lord.in everything.

Not only did i discipline myself I learnt to put others before myself.

It could not have came a better time when you helped me discipline myself this way,
Just months later something unexpected was about to drop into my life, which you don't know about,


even when you think you should not put others first because of people's behaviour, I truly learnt how to forgive and forget, because of you.

I also want you to know that as a result of you helping me to change and grow strong in weak areas I had. I developed such a mental positive attitude.

I just could not understand how someone could take so much criticism and still be such a blessing,

It Was then I truly believed you where speaking to the lord and wanted to learn from you.




but not only this I would say for what you've done for me and my household, has rubbed off not only on me, but now my family.

but what I'm truly thankful for the most is, if I had not had been uplifted and encouraged the way you encouraged me. I Would not have moved on from affliction.

I Don't think I would have been able to help my wife to beat cancer.

she got the all clear she's cancer free last week.

and I hold you in the highest regard for this and also forever i will be in gratitude for you.

Because I believe your also responsible for my wife beating cancer, which took months of hard work, devotion and prayer, kindness hope tolerance, all theese gifts you helped me progress in . 😊

So with every piece of my heart i thankyou.

what an astonishing heartfelt testimony absolutely beautiful but it wasn't me and I cannot take any credit it was him always him I was just willing an empty vessel he did the rest but to hear of hopw much he used me when I had no idea he was speaking to you so greatly it brings my heart to joy

This right here is why I was after the truth to see him so strong and to strengthen others who would listen the kingdom the connection of the hearts I thought all I did was in vain but you are proof that even if you only seem to recieve hate or hurt he still willreach others

It seems that he knew what was going to happen to you and I have watched and seen you grow and I was always impressed with how receptive you are not many can be like this so I knew eventually you would grow even stronger than me because you are receptive to him you see with eyes that refuse to stay in one spot you move forwards your growing your listening

Do you remeber the blue eyes we spoke before? at first I thought it was the spirit of God thast makes them glow in that azure blue color but I think it has more to do with sight in the truth funny enough and I may have spoken this before but before when I was first saved I always said to him I wanted to see that I would be willing to give up my own eyes just to see with his then I had a dream where I was saying to Jesus I want to see and in the dream he said he wanted me to see to but three years later my eyes became almost completely blind as if I prophesied my own demise

but you see without losing your sight and you see because you are receptive to him his sheep know his voice and I am beyond proud of you not because you took what I said and went on my side but because looked past the mere words and tuned into him it is always him I can speak and make a fantastic case but if he isn't behind it then it is just garbage

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

what an astonishing heartfelt testimony absolutely beautiful but it wasn't me and I cannot take any credit it was him always him I was just willing an empty vessel he did the rest but to hear of hopw much he used me when I had no idea he was speaking to you so greatly it brings my heart to joy

This right here is why I was after the truth to see him so strong and to strengthen others who would listen the kingdom the connection of the hearts I thought all I did was in vain but you are proof that even if you only seem to recieve hate or hurt he still willreach others

It seems that he knew what was going to happen to you and I have watched and seen you grow and I was always impressed with how receptive you are not many can be like this so I knew eventually you would grow even stronger than me because you are receptive to him you see with eyes that refuse to stay in one spot you move forwards your growing your listening

Do you remeber the blue eyes we spoke before? at first I thought it was the spirit of God thast makes them glow in that azure blue color but I think it has more to do with sight in the truth funny enough and I may have spoken this before but before when I was first saved I always said to him I wanted to see that I would be willing to give up my own eyes just to see with his then I had a dream where I was saying to Jesus I want to see and in the dream he said he wanted me to see to but three years later my eyes became almost completely blind as if I prophesied my own demise

but you see without losing your sight and you see because you are receptive to him his sheep know his voice and I am beyond proud of you not because you took what I said and went on my side but because looked past the mere words and tuned into him it is always him I can speak and make a fantastic case but if he isn't behind it then it is just garbage

blain theese words are what this place needs,

But please could you spend more time using commas and full stops, and spacing each sentence out like this.

I have understood every word here tho, please don't get me wrong 😊

As the word that gets given to you from the father is a blessing to this house.


It would be much nicer if you could somehow try a bit harder, I understand it may be difficult,. but i would love it so much if you could.


your already having such a great influence on me since you've come back. 😊

 

[Blain]

I think people think scripture can save them. That's the problem I think.

It's the lord who saves you.

It's a common error I believe. And it's quite common amongst the adolescent mind.

It's not until they get out of this mind set, that what you say here will mean anything.

When we look at the mighty men of the renown, we see they where truly devoted to the lord.

It was not just a few words that saved them, but the lord recognising people who's hearts seeked the lord.

Whom the lord had built up, through there desire to seek the lord, before they speak and act.

What we have with people who save themselves is people who just repeat scripture, for there own denomination and satisfaction, and using scripture to belittle people with.

The Gospel has turned into a book of how to label people trolls around here, because of long serving member getting away with promoting abuse.

To many times I see long serving members get away with name calling.

But the thing is I'm more concerned there using the word to set a bad example.

Now we have trolls coming out of the woodwork on a free for all, because its allowed to call people trolls.

It shouldn't be allowed, because now we have hundreds of people calling people names, and the word of God is being trashed


But there repeating someone elses walk in the bible not there own.

And they should know you can't be someone else,

Because when someone is constantly using scripture to save themselves, there mind is else where, and there hardly going to seek the real thing..

Yes you are exactly right and so many have fled from this place for that exact reason words have power thousands of people see every sentence we speak on here and it greatly affects them this is just the words we speak imagine how the scirptures used as they are affect them

Especially considering we call ourselves Christians that we call it the word of God I am not sure I spoke this before but when I first attempted suicide I was put in a place where they moniter you for a couple weeks in that place IO met a women and transgender I was just being myself nothing special and they were both shocked to find out I was a Christian because every Christian or church they went to only pointed out their sin they used scripture as a weapon name calling ect.

These are the hidden in plain sight that are hurt by us and it absolutely infuriated me it sickened me to call myself a Christian but just from a hug after hearing their story they were brought to tears my body just moved I couldn't help it

Even now it hurts just remembering them those tears just from an embrace to learn how the system our so called faith has hurt so manyusing scripture to attack or poioint out weakness or sin instead of bringing life into people drawing them to God because the life in the scriptures is there but the scriptures won't save you it is his words what saves you is hearing them and giving in to them believing him making that connection of the hearts I liken the bible as his heart in our hands if you love someone so dearly and you have their heart in your hand you would treat it with care you would hold in close to you every pulse or beat would electrify you because your heart begins to beat and pulse in the same rythm

but if this is all it is to us and the damage done by it then this is not truth this is not being a Christian it is being religous

 

[Blain]

blain theese words are what this place needs,

But please could you spend more time using commas and full stops, and spacing each sentence out like this.

I have understood every word here tho, please don't get me wrong 😊

As the word that gets given to you from the father is a blessing to this house.


It would be much nicer if you could somehow try a bit harder, I understand it may be difficult,. but i would love it so much if you could.


your already having such a great influence on me since you've come back. 😊

blain theese words are what this place needs,

But please could you spend more time using commas and full stops, and spacing each sentence out like this.

I have understood every word here tho, please don't get me wrong 😊

As the word that gets given to you from the father is a blessing to this house.


It would be much nicer if you could somehow try a bit harder, I understand it may be difficult,. but i would love it so much if you could.


your already having such a great influence on me since you've come back. 😊

I will try I imagine it must be hard on the eyes, I will always admit my keyboard is pretty old so some buttons don't work well like the period button so I have to try to press it several times before it works but yes I will see if there is something I can do about it

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yes you are exactly right and so many have fled from this place for that exact reason words have power thousands of people see every sentence we speak on here and it greatly affects them this is just the words we speak imagine how the scirptures used as they are affect them

Especially considering we call ourselves Christians that we call it the word of God I am not sure I spoke this before but when I first attempted suicide I was put in a place where they moniter you for a couple weeks in that place IO met a women and transgender I was just being myself nothing special and they were both shocked to find out I was a Christian because every Christian or church they went to only pointed out their sin they used scripture as a weapon name calling ect.

These are the hidden in plain sight that are hurt by us and it absolutely infuriated me it sickened me to call myself a Christian but just from a hug after hearing their story they were brought to tears my body just moved I couldn't help it

Even now it hurts just remembering them those tears just from an embrace to learn how the system our so called faith has hurt so manyusing scripture to attack or poioint out weakness or sin instead of bringing life into people drawing them to God because the life in the scriptures is there but the scriptures won't save you it is his words what saves you is hearing them and giving in to them believing him making that connection of the hearts I liken the bible as his heart in our hands if you love someone so dearly and you have their heart in your hand you would treat it with care you would hold in close to you every pulse or beat would electrify you because your heart begins to beat and pulse in the same rythm

but if this is all it is to us and the damage done by it then this is not truth this is not being a Christian it is being religous

Understood completely bro.

Your heart for God was probably the reason God pulled you through all this.

And I'm so grateful he has.

I would be lost without you buddy.

Your kindness will always prevail. And I just hope your heart can endure so much better.

We will always see people hurt by someone else's response, but where dealing with people who need to be grounded in the word, and we need your gifts from God more tham ever blain. 👍

 

[Blain]

Understood completely bro.

Your heart for God was probably the reason God pulled you through all this.

And I'm so grateful he has.

I would be lost without you buddy.

Your kindness will always prevail. And I just hope your heart can endure so much better.

We will always see people hurt by someone else's response, but where dealing with people who need to be grounded in the word, and we need your gifts from God more tham ever blain. 👍

• Ecclesiasticus 6:5-6,14-17
  Faithful friends are invaluable and life-saving, and those who fear the Lord will find them.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

• Ecclesiasticus 6:5-6,14-17
  Faithful friends are invaluable and life-saving, and those who fear the Lord will find them.

here you go buddy, translated at sacred space dot com.

Your daily prayer online.

 

[Blain]

here you go buddy, translated at sacred space dot com.

Your daily prayer online.



View attachment 260697

Yeah I nay have posted the wrong verse but at least you understood what I was going for

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yeah I nay have posted the wrong verse but at least you understood what I was going for

Yeah I nay have posted the wrong verse but at least you understood what I was going for

I think you did 😂

But you dropped a hint. Touching on faithful friends, I like the part about seek advice from one in thousand. I don't know whether I could gain a thousand friends, but I put my faith in where all one family really.
And we can be joined in prayer

My issues I had with friends is so many times I have been betrayed, i did at one time start to out new friendships to the sword to test my friendship.

It Was probably the biggest mistake I made in my life with one friend.

I've since learned to forgive being betrayed, so i no longer suffer that way. But betrayal is a hard one to forgive

but I could imagine many people do here.

i mean put friendships to the tests.

its a shame really,

it probably would not happen if name calling was banned all together 😔.

I guess people will be people

 

[turbosixx]

Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom_3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom_3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom_3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom_4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Rom_4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Rom_4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Rom_4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Rom_4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Rom_4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom_4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

Rom_4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Rom_5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom_5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom_9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom_10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

Rom_10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom_11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Rom_12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Rom_14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Rom_14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Rom_14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Rom_16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1Co_2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1Co_12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1Co_13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co_13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Shalom
J.

Wow. You gave me more than I can respond to and it do any good. I do appreciate and love your passion for the subject. If we are going to get our points across, I suggest we take smaller bites.

I believe everything the bible says. If you would please take a scripture/s and post them but then explain why you see them the way you do, that would be most helpful.

So I quoted a bible verse and wanted your take on that verse. I can only assume by your post that you don't believe that verse means what it says.
Jesus tells them to preach the gospel and Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Is this what you believe it says? Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved

If we consider the context and the following events, it means exactly what it says.

 

[turbosixx]

You insert water where it is not stated. Other verses, such as you are saved by grace through faith, not by works,
etc, say nothing of needing to be drenched in physical water to effectuate your salvation. Salvation is by grace
through faith (Romans 3:22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 30; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9.) Please note
that I am not saying one should not be baptized, or that it is not an important step in one's walk of faith. Three
of the snippets of Scripture I supplied were from Revelation, well beyond the crucifixion. I am not even sure
why that matters in this discussion, but you brought it up. Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. It was
part of the law for priests to undergo such a ritual before assuming their priestly duties. We are not under the law.

Acts 13:38-39

Thanks for your comments.
The verses you use to deny the necessity of water baptism are written to people who were water baptized when they were converted. For example, here Paul baptizes some Ephesians. 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. So when Paul writes the Ephesians, he doesn't have to tell them the whole nine yards. The president has been set and it is already understood there faith caused them to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

More importantly, I suggest you're missing the context. In all of those verses you listed in this post, Paul is trying to help them understand a problem they have. Do you know what that problem is?

 

[turbosixx]

I adamantly reject the works based notion that being dunked into water saves or forgives sin.

I know that's how you see it and as you say you're free to do so but I don't see how you can say that about baptism. The bible says the exact opposite.
You say baptism doesn't forgive sins.
The bible says And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

You say baptism doesn't save you.
Bible says Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you

The bible says exactly what you reject. If baptism doesn't wash away sins and doesn't save you, why would the bible tell us it does. Why didn't Peter just tell us baptism cannot save you instead of telling us that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you

 

[Johann]

Wow. You gave me more than I can respond to and it do any good. I do appreciate and love your passion for the subject. If we are going to get our points across, I suggest we take smaller bites.

I believe everything the bible says. If you would please take a scripture/s and post them but then explain why you see them the way you do, that would be most helpful.

So I quoted a bible verse and wanted your take on that verse. I can only assume by your post that you don't believe that verse means what it says.
Jesus tells them to preach the gospel and Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Is this what you believe it says? Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved

If we consider the context and the following events, it means exactly what it says.

figure. or, antitype. R. L. Keeler asks, "What saves us? Peter says ’the antitype baptism now saves us.’ What is this antitype baptism, and how does it save us? By examining the type or figure we will better understand the antitype. Water and the ark together saved Noah’s family in the type. In the antitype it is the blood of Christ (of which water is the type), and Christ himself (of which the ark is the type), by which we are saved—saved from sin and everlasting death" (Christian Baptism, p. 285). Rom_5:14, 1Co_10:6, Heb_8:5; Heb_9:9; *Heb_9:24 g.
baptism. Gr. baptisma (S# G908, Mat_3:7). FS101, +Deu_32:42, This is a reference to real, not ritual baptism, for ritual baptism does not save us, it being only a humanly administered ordinance, and Peter’s parenthetical words seem expressly given to guard against such a misapplication of his words to the ritual ordinance. Real baptism accomplished by the Holy Spirit saves us, placing us in the body of Christ, and applying the cleansing blood of Christ to our hearts (+*Act_1:5 note. +*Act_22:16, 1Co_12:13, Tit_3:5, Heb_10:22, Rev_1:5) upon our calling upon Christ (Rom_10:13) and placing faith in his resurrection (Rom_10:9). Mat_3:6; Mat_3:11; Mat_3:16; +*Mat_28:19, Mar_10:38-39; **Mar_16:16, *Luk_12:50, **Act_2:38; Act_8:12; Act_16:33; +*Act_22:16, **Rom_6:3-6, +*1Co_6:11; **1Co_12:13, **Gal_3:27, Eph_4:5; *Eph_5:26, **Col_2:12, **Tit_3:5-7, +*Heb_6:2; +*Heb_10:22, Jas_4:8, 2Pe_1:9, 1Jn_5:6; 1Jn_5:8.

J.

 

[Johann]

figure. or, antitype. R. L. Keeler asks, "What saves us? Peter says ’the antitype baptism now saves us.’ What is this antitype baptism, and how does it save us? By examining the type or figure we will better understand the antitype. Water and the ark together saved Noah’s family in the type. In the antitype it is the blood of Christ (of which water is the type), and Christ himself (of which the ark is the type), by which we are saved—saved from sin and everlasting death" (Christian Baptism, p. 285). Rom_5:14, 1Co_10:6, Heb_8:5; Heb_9:9; *Heb_9:24 g.
baptism. Gr. baptisma (S# G908, Mat_3:7). FS101, +Deu_32:42, This is a reference to real, not ritual baptism, for ritual baptism does not save us, it being only a humanly administered ordinance, and Peter’s parenthetical words seem expressly given to guard against such a misapplication of his words to the ritual ordinance. Real baptism accomplished by the Holy Spirit saves us, placing us in the body of Christ, and applying the cleansing blood of Christ to our hearts (+*Act_1:5 note. +*Act_22:16, 1Co_12:13, Tit_3:5, Heb_10:22, Rev_1:5) upon our calling upon Christ (Rom_10:13) and placing faith in his resurrection (Rom_10:9). Mat_3:6; Mat_3:11; Mat_3:16; +*Mat_28:19, Mar_10:38-39; **Mar_16:16, *Luk_12:50, **Act_2:38; Act_8:12; Act_16:33; +*Act_22:16, **Rom_6:3-6, +*1Co_6:11; **1Co_12:13, **Gal_3:27, Eph_4:5; *Eph_5:26, **Col_2:12, **Tit_3:5-7, +*Heb_6:2; +*Heb_10:22, Jas_4:8, 2Pe_1:9, 1Jn_5:6; 1Jn_5:8.

J.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[turbosixx]

figure. or, antitype. R. L. Keeler asks, "What saves us? Peter says ’the antitype baptism now saves us.’ What is this antitype baptism, and how does it save us? By examining the type or figure we will better understand the antitype. Water and the ark together saved Noah’s family in the type. In the antitype it is the blood of Christ (of which water is the type), and Christ himself (of which the ark is the type), by which we are saved—saved from sin and everlasting death" (Christian Baptism, p. 285). Rom_5:14, 1Co_10:6, Heb_8:5; Heb_9:9; *Heb_9:24 g.
baptism. Gr. baptisma (S# G908, Mat_3:7). FS101, +Deu_32:42, This is a reference to real, not ritual baptism, for ritual baptism does not save us, it being only a humanly administered ordinance, and Peter’s parenthetical words seem expressly given to guard against such a misapplication of his words to the ritual ordinance. Real baptism accomplished by the Holy Spirit saves us, placing us in the body of Christ, and applying the cleansing blood of Christ to our hearts (+*Act_1:5 note. +*Act_22:16, 1Co_12:13, Tit_3:5, Heb_10:22, Rev_1:5) upon our calling upon Christ (Rom_10:13) and placing faith in his resurrection (Rom_10:9). Mat_3:6; Mat_3:11; Mat_3:16; +*Mat_28:19, Mar_10:38-39; **Mar_16:16, *Luk_12:50, **Act_2:38; Act_8:12; Act_16:33; +*Act_22:16, **Rom_6:3-6, +*1Co_6:11; **1Co_12:13, **Gal_3:27, Eph_4:5; *Eph_5:26, **Col_2:12, **Tit_3:5-7, +*Heb_6:2; +*Heb_10:22, Jas_4:8, 2Pe_1:9, 1Jn_5:6; 1Jn_5:8.

J.

Correct me if I misunderstand you. You're saying that the baptism in this verse Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved is baptism accomplished by the HS?

 

[Johann]

Correct me if I misunderstand you. You're saying that the baptism in this verse Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved is baptism accomplished by the HS?

 

[Johann]

Joh 1:26 John answered them, "I baptize [only] N1in water, but among you there stands One whom you do not recognize and of whom you know nothing. [Mal_3:1]
Joh 1:27 It is He [the preeminent One] who comes after me, the N1strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie [even as His slave]."
Joh 1:28 These things occurred in Bethany across the Jordan [at the Jordan River crossing], where John was baptizing.
Behold, the Lamb of God
Joh 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Look! The Lamb of God N1who takes away the sin of the world! [Exo_12:3; Isa_53:7]
Joh 1:30 This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I and has priority over me, for He existed before me.'
Joh 1:31 N1I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah]; but I came baptizing N2in water so that He would be [publicly] revealed to Israel."
Joh 1:32 John gave [further] evidence [testifying officially for the record, with validity and relevance], saying, "I have seen the N1Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. [Mat_3:13-17; Mar_1:9-11; Luk_3:22-23]
Joh 1:33 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah], but He who sent me to baptize N1in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this One is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'

He said (ekeinos eipen). Explicit and emphatic pronoun as in Joh_1:8, referring to God as the one who sent John (Joh_1:6).
With the Holy Spirit (en pneumati hagiōi). “In the Holy Spirit.” Here again one needs the background of the Synoptics for the contrast between John’s baptism in water (Joh_1:26) and that of the Messiah in the Holy Spirit (Mar_1:8; Mat_3:11; Luk_3:16).

Who is the baptizer? Water or the Holy Spirit?

What was the purpose of John's baptism?

Act 2:17 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' says God, 'THAT I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT UPON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE [divinely prompted] VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM [divinely prompted] DREAMS;
Act 2:18 EVEN ON MY BOND-SERVANTS, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR OUT MY SPIRIT And they shall prophesy.
Act 2:19 'AND I WILL BRING ABOUT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE AND SIGNS (attesting miracles) ON THE EARTH BELOW, BLOOD AND FIRE AND SMOKING VAPOR.
Act 2:20 'THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD COMES.
Act 2:21 'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD [invoking, adoring, and worshiping the Lord Jesus] SHALL BE SAVED (rescued spiritually).' [Joe_2:28-32]

Do you see anything about water baptism @turbosixx ?

You show me ONE verse-I give you the antithesis by showing you OTHER verses IN Scriptures.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Doth now save you (humas nun sōzei). Simplex verb (sōzō, not the compound diasōzō). The saving by baptism which Peter here mentions is only symbolic (a metaphor or picture as in Rom_6:2-6), not actual as Peter hastens to explain.

Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (ou sarkos apothesis rupou). Apothesis is old word from apotithēmi (1Pe_2:1), in N.T. only here and 2Pe_1:14. Rupou (genitive of rupos) is old word (cf. ruparos, filthy, in Jas_2:2; Rev_22:11), here only in N.T. (cf. Isa_3:3; Isa_4:4). Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh either in a literal sense, as a bath for the body, or in a metaphorical sense of the filth of the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience (Heb_9:13.). Peter here expressly denies baptismal remission of sin.
RWP


1) "The like figure whereunto even." (ho) which (ark) (Gk. kai humas antitupon) even to us a figure or antitype is. The ark, place of safety, was Christ, not the water. True faith works by love to the saving of the life for God, Gal_5:6-7.

Do you see it?
Yours in Christ.
J.

 

[Johann]

Correct me if I misunderstand you. You're saying that the baptism in this verse Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved is baptism accomplished by the HS?

Joh 1:26 John answered them, "I baptize [only] N1in water, but among you there stands One whom you do not recognize and of whom you know nothing. [Mal_3:1]
Joh 1:27 It is He [the preeminent One] who comes after me, the N1strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie [even as His slave]."
Joh 1:28 These things occurred in Bethany across the Jordan [at the Jordan River crossing], where John was baptizing.
Behold, the Lamb of God
Joh 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Look! The Lamb of God N1who takes away the sin of the world! [Exo_12:3; Isa_53:7]
Joh 1:30 This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I and has priority over me, for He existed before me.'
Joh 1:31 N1I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah]; but I came baptizing N2in water so that He would be [publicly] revealed to Israel."
Joh 1:32 John gave [further] evidence [testifying officially for the record, with validity and relevance], saying, "I have seen the N1Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. [Mat_3:13-17; Mar_1:9-11; Luk_3:22-23]
Joh 1:33 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah], but He who sent me to baptize N1in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this One is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'

He said (ekeinos eipen). Explicit and emphatic pronoun as in Joh_1:8, referring to God as the one who sent John (Joh_1:6).
With the Holy Spirit (en pneumati hagiōi). “In the Holy Spirit.” Here again one needs the background of the Synoptics for the contrast between John’s baptism in water (Joh_1:26) and that of the Messiah in the Holy Spirit (Mar_1:8; Mat_3:11; Luk_3:16).

Who is the baptizer? Water or the Holy Spirit?

What was the purpose of John's baptism?

Act 2:17 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' says God, 'THAT I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT UPON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE [divinely prompted] VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM [divinely prompted] DREAMS;
Act 2:18 EVEN ON MY BOND-SERVANTS, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR OUT MY SPIRIT And they shall prophesy.
Act 2:19 'AND I WILL BRING ABOUT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE AND SIGNS (attesting miracles) ON THE EARTH BELOW, BLOOD AND FIRE AND SMOKING VAPOR.
Act 2:20 'THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD COMES.
Act 2:21 'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD [invoking, adoring, and worshiping the Lord Jesus] SHALL BE SAVED (rescued spiritually).' [Joe_2:28-32]

Do you see anything about water baptism @turbosixx ?

You show me ONE verse-I give you the antithesis by showing you OTHER verses IN Scriptures.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Doth now save you (humas nun sōzei). Simplex verb (sōzō, not the compound diasōzō). The saving by baptism which Peter here mentions is only symbolic (a metaphor or picture as in Rom_6:2-6), not actual as Peter hastens to explain.

Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (ou sarkos apothesis rupou). Apothesis is old word from apotithēmi (1Pe_2:1), in N.T. only here and 2Pe_1:14. Rupou (genitive of rupos) is old word (cf. ruparos, filthy, in Jas_2:2; Rev_22:11), here only in N.T. (cf. Isa_3:3; Isa_4:4). Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh either in a literal sense, as a bath for the body, or in a metaphorical sense of the filth of the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience (Heb_9:13.). Peter here expressly denies baptismal remission of sin.
RWP


1) "The like figure whereunto even." (ho) which (ark) (Gk. kai humas antitupon) even to us a figure or antitype is. The ark, place of safety, was Christ, not the water. True faith works by love to the saving of the life for God, Gal_5:6-7.

Do you see it?
Yours in Christ.
J.